Not going to go digging for it but most of those sites have the date the photo was taken some where.
Though I am not sure how old the photo is affects the conversation much. It is OK to people that she had too many horses in small pens if the photo is old?
[QUOTE=acottongim;6238289]
I have ZERO dog in this fight and am not gong to comment on any of this except to say Google Earth (at street view or the sat view) is not necessarily the most current - it is whenever they update it.
I was in OR a year or two ago and the goolge earth people rode their bikes past a resturant we were sitting at to “map” that street. They told us that yes, we would be seen and that they didn’t update but every few months (can’t remember the exact time frame but think it was every 6 months). I also put in my own farm and I know for a fact it wasn’t current - one of the horses in one of my paddocks had been sold (sold in Jan of this year), there is now grass in 3 of the paddocks that you don’t see grass in, and yesterday all of my horses are in the barn because of bad weather but Google Earth showed horses outside…
Not saying that anything Jill has or has not done is right, but it is also not right for everyone to jump to any conclusions based on a SAT image that may or may not be correct - and this also makes counting horses and determining if her current situation is bad/good even more silly. Chances are better than even that the image was not taken yesterday and it is very likely that the image was taken several months ago (possibly even last summer).[/QUOTE]
Just want to be clear, I stated that GE pictures are often older when I first posted and my comment wasn’t intended to indicate that was what her place looks like today. My point is that if that is OK in someone’s book when things aren’t quite so bad (a couple years ago, couple months, etc) then how those horses are living when she really pins her back to the wall (ie, foreclosure, etc) is likely cause for concern.
Here is my comment: "Well, you got me…to all those who said she couldn’t possibly be keeping 40 mares there and they must be off in some nice big green field somewhere. I counted about 36 (that I could see including the ones clustered under the trees for cover in the larger pen across the lane) in that picture on google earth in those nasty dirt pens with very limited shelter (it appears). Also, there is no hay in those pens that is visible. Granted, Google Earth pictures can be older, but it doesn’t sound like her horse keeping has been on the upswing."
To be clear - I am not saying it is right or wrong. It just kind of annoys me how there is several posts in a row arguing about how many there are vs how many are shadows. And there is a bit of a lynch mob feel to some of these posts and a “GET THE HORSES OUT NOW” urgency/feeling based on that one photo, which is probably not current. Esp when there was one post that stated that they knew Jill was trying to down size (again, not commenting if it is true or not).
My personal feeling is that where there is smoke there is fire and I suspect that much is true, but there is a lot of conjecture on this thread about currrent situations that frankly most probably don’t know 100% of the facts about (including me).
[QUOTE=acottongim;6238310]
Esp when there was one post that stated that they knew Jill was trying to down size (again, not commenting if it is true or not).[/QUOTE]
Listen, I don’t have a direct interest in what Jill does or doesn’t do, but clearly owners need to be cognizant of the fact that her idea of “downsizing” could very well be placing them in a place that it’s harder for people to recover them or that the transport/conditions she puts them in could be less than ideal. Do I know this for a fact? No. But has Jill shown herself to deal straight and put the horses best interests first? Apparently not. The lynch mob thing is foolish – people are having a discussion about conditions and a situation which clearly needs to be attended to and people to gain information on how to go about doing that by piecing together this person’s behavior over time.
And furthermore, I PERSONALLY feel that Jill is an insult to all those hardworking breeders who bust their *ss to do it right, do right by their animals and do right by those they come in contact with in this business. There are scores of breeders who have equally nice (or nicer) stallions, mares, etc and certainly don’t behave in the ways she has – she’s an insult to other American Breeders.
[QUOTE=ljcfoh;6238320]
And furthermore, I PERSONALLY feel that Jill is an insult to all those hardworking breeders who bust their *ss to do it right, do right by their animals and do right by those they come in contact with in this business. There are scores of breeders who have equally nice (or nicer) stallions, mares, etc and certainly don’t behave in the ways she has – she’s an insult to other American Breeders.[/QUOTE]
^^^
This, 1000%
And for downsizing, its hard to believe when she just added 5 new mares to her website in the last month or so. Sure she’s got some new ads up on dreamhorse, http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_list.php?form_owner_list=Y&srch_owner_id=57582 but for the asking prices, I don’t see them selling in an awful big hurry.
Glenhill, didn’t the Cinderella horse she just acquired belong to you? I’m pretty sure it was on your mare page not too long ago.
I feel the obvious question is …
If you had any horse of any age or sex at a farm other than your own - wouldn’t you want to be contacted by the Farm Owner regarding the fact that the farm was going to a Sheriff’s Sale in the near future?
Or would you rather have the farm owner keep telling you lots of positive and happy things about your horse or even expected foal and then find out through the internet threads that the ship is sinking. And you might possibly be a great distance from the farm and either unable to travel there or facing financial expense to get there to see for yourself.
People keep posting they cannot reach this woman. And now a “neighbor” posts on here that if you can’t reach her to contact the “neighbor”. Why should anyone have to call or contact a neighbor to reach the person they are doing business with???
[QUOTE=Sonesta;6238085]
If she is not paying the mortgage, why in the world would the bank think she’d pay rent???[/QUOTE]
Here’s the article from the Wall Street Journal, March 23. It’s a program set up by Bank of America, called Mortgage to Lease. The bank takes the deed, and leases the property back to the “owner” at a market rate
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304724404577297904070547784.html
Unfortunately, this is unlikely to apply to Jill, since it’s not being done in California and it is done by having the homeowner sign over the deed instead of having a foreclosure and sale.
Mardi - I’m pretty sure that only relates to residential properties. Farm properties are in a different category.
[QUOTE=Sonesta;6238680]
Unfortunately, this is unlikely to apply to Jill, since it’s not being done in California and it is done by having the homeowner sign over the deed instead of having a foreclosure and sale.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I work in the title insurance industry, my educated guess would be that the bank did not “work out a deal” with someone who has not only defaulted on their mortgage, but has many judgements and other liens against them. Plus the liabilities that a horse breeding operation bring that are above and beyond what you would expect with a residential property.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6238399]
People keep posting they cannot reach this woman. And now a “neighbor” posts on here that if you can’t reach her to contact the “neighbor”. Why should anyone have to call or contact a neighbor to reach the person they are doing business with???[/QUOTE]
Very Very good question.
[QUOTE=Zlotych;6238347]
^^^
This, 1000%
And for downsizing, its hard to believe when she just added 5 new mares to her website in the last month or so. Sure she’s got some new ads up on dreamhorse, http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_list.php?form_owner_list=Y&srch_owner_id=57582 but for the asking prices, I don’t see them selling in an awful big hurry.
Glenhill, didn’t the Cinderella horse she just acquired belong to you? I’m pretty sure it was on your mare page not too long ago.[/QUOTE]
Warmhearted Ester and a few others also used to belong to Glenhill, they have been friend/done business back and forth for years as far as I know.
To the person who scoffed at the suggestion of this woman having “mental health issues”.
Mental health issues does not have to mean psychopathic, deranged and/or violent behaviour.
Look up the definition/description of “borderline personality disorder”. All of Jill’s behaviours/actions, coupled with her complete denial that any of this is her fault and inability to apologize or fix things in a normal, healthy way, are symptoms of BPD (not saying she has it, obviously i can’t know for sure, i’m just sayin’ it’s all eerily familiar…).
As someone whose family was torn apart by a woman like this (when my father remarried), there is nothing shocking to me about it. Because I have lived it. It involved lots of lawyer’s letters, insane accusations of fraud/harassment/theft/you name it, a kidnapping/sequestering situation (my grandmother), hiding from police trying to enforce a court order, and on and and on…
And i have not spoken to my father in 5 years because of it. 
There are many, many people out there like this - who aren’t disturbed enough to have problems functioning semi-normally in society (keeping a job) but who are most definitely mentally ill and feel that everyone ELSE is the problem, not them. They tend to project their own issues onto others, so when they lie they accuse others of lying or being fraudulent - and they genuinely BELIEVE they’re in the right. It’s a sickness, make no mistake about it.
I am truly, truly sorry for anyone involved. I have been there. Unfortunately it was not money that I lost. It was my father. :no: :no: :no:
Fingers crossed no horses or people get hurt in this mess.
“does not have to mean psychopathic, deranged and/or violent behaviour.”
Wow, you should hear the story from people that went to pick up a horse there, sounded a lot like deranged and/or violent behavior. When the sheriff saw that he decided he needed to help get this horse out. The police gave them an escort to the freeway just because of it.
I’m just saying, there is enough evidence against this person and I think saying someone has “mental health issues” is not classy. If she does have mental health issues, then she may need professional help dealing with those issues, and it does not help to have it blasted all over the internet. This forum alone has convinced me enough that I would probably not to do business with her.
[QUOTE=veetiepony;6239021]
I’m just saying, there is enough evidence against this person and I think saying someone has “mental health issues” is not classy. If she does have mental health issues, then she may need professional help dealing with those issues, and it does not help to have it blasted all over the internet. This forum alone has convinced me enough that I would probably not to do business with her.[/Quote]
You would Probably not do business with her? Ha, you definitely won’t be doing business with her. She will be homeless soon, when the lender begins eviction procedings, OR she will be in jail soon when she is convicted of check fraud!!!
Miss Denial (JB) was over on HGS the day her house was sold at auction.
I am so thankful that my business dealings with Jill Burnell were brief, and that the run-in I had with her was very mild compared to many other people who have not been so lucky. Lesson learned.
I would like to commend COTH for allowing these threads regarding Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm to remain in the public domain as they will hopefully serve as invaluable pieces of research for others who may not be familiar with all the goings on.
Haha, you’re probably right, i won’t be doing business with her. Forgive me, Probably is just the .0001 chance i might to business with her. Nothing is certain. 
[QUOTE=Noalter;6239062]
You would Probably not do business with her? Ha, you definitely won’t be doing business with her. She will be homeless soon, when the lender begins eviction procedings, OR she will be in jail soon when she is convicted of check fraud!!!
Miss Denial (JB) was over on HGS the day her house was sold at auction.[/QUOTE]
Well, it wasn’t, apparently ‘sold’ at the auction. Usually the bank puts a minimum on it, possibly the amount left on the mortgage, or I forget how they determine the minimum, but if the minimum isn’t met, non of the bidders gets it and the bank buys it themselves. The owner is either discouraged or chooses not to be present for the sale, and I would have little doubt that JB wanted to find some way to keep herself occupied as the event took place, so there’s not much nefarious about her being online that particular day. However, if she was posting business as usual, that’s not good.
The other point people seem to forget in saying “leave her alone” is that no one would be posting this stuff online or trying to disclose what is happeneing if the woman would just answer her phone and make herself available, which she isn’t doing. She doesn’t leave people much of a choice but to contact each other about it and be very upset about not having calls returned, etc.
She’s obviously being irresponsible, obviously still trying to collect animals, and obviously not trying to downsize or meet her business obligations. the woman’s a problem, and there is alot of horseflesh tied up in her nefarious practices. I think the comments and concerns and suggestions are all reasonable and justified.
[QUOTE=Edgar;6238941]
“does not have to mean psychopathic, deranged and/or violent behaviour.”
Wow, you should hear the story from people that went to pick up a horse there, sounded a lot like deranged and/or violent behavior. When the sheriff saw that he decided he needed to help get this horse out. The police gave them an escort to the freeway just because of it.[/QUOTE]
Yes, fair enough, but many people can get riled up when they feel desperate or helpless. I was just pointing out that there are many different faces to “mental illness” - it doesn’t always involve violence, hearing voices, etc…
I have no dog in this fight, it’s just that what is going with Jill is hitting REALLY close to home for me, and I just wanted to offer a bit of insight.
As my psychiatrist once told me, “it’s only the sane ones who voluntarily seek help”. sigh :no:
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