Help! Looking for Jill from Gray Fox Farms

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=genevieveg17;6237119]
I live down the road from Jill. If you are having a hard time getting a hold of her please feel free to contact me.
I was by her place earlier this week and she definitely has fewer horses on the property than she did a couple months ago. They all had hay in front of them and looked in good weight.
She realizes the pickle that she is in and has been busy developing a plan to downsize and get things in order.
As much pleasure as it brings some people to watch her world come crashing down, I think this might be a good time to practice self control when typing out responses on this thread.
Jill and I have had our differences over the years but I will not kick someone while they are down. If she needs help, I am here. She is well aware that she got in over her head and I think this is the time to throw her a life preserver instead of turning on another hose.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, it’s not Jill that’s earned a life preserver, it is the horses that are in her care. She created her own situation, but those horses shouldn’t be forced to suffer. And, this is hardly a “pickle.” (not to be picky)

[urciegirl]

Kathy, thank you for summing up the situation accurately. Along with what Jill has put me through this year, she has just ripped off a Georgia breeder who paid for a Romantic Star breeding. The unethical behaviors of this business owner continue on. Last month a mare owner in Florida sent her mare to Jill on breed lease. Jill was supposed to pay for the haul but instead she left the mare with the hauler who was forced to feed and care for the 17-hand, 1/2 a bale eating mare for a month. The mare owner was frantic and desperately tried to find someone to breed lease the mare here in CA since she could not afford the haul back to FL. Jill then promised a cashier’s check to the hauler for hauling the mare another 250 miles, where the mare was dropped off at a stockyard near Jill’s house, a location where I am told she is “stashing” horses. They delivered the mare and received the cashier’s check. Jill then placed a stop payment on the cashier’s check, telling Chase Bank it had been lost. The hauler told me that Chase is prosecuting her for fraud. I encourage each of Jill’s victims to submit a form with their story to the Consumer Complaint Division of the Sonoma County District Attorney’s office. You may download the form here: http://da.sonoma-county.org/documents/consumer_complaint_form_and_instructions_english.pdf

[Perfect_Pony]

It is becoming clear to me that she has some severe mental health issues amd really needs some help. I have actually thought of trying to buy a horse from her, but I honesty worry about their long term health seeing as she is a hoarder with little money to properly feed them all.

So sad.

[veetiepony]

[edit] Come on, the situation is stark but i would hope anyone that would send a mare to her (or lease or whatever…) can see what has been already posted and figure it out if they did a simple google search. I am confident this thread would come up right away… enough has been said on this forum to deter any would-be clients of hers via a simple google search.

[Edgar]

"I was by her place earlier this week and she definitely has fewer horses on the property than she did a couple months ago. "

Gen you are a sweetheart and a good neighbor to have. You think your statement above has something to with the mares she has shipped to a certain vet in Colorado? Do you count that as downsizing? I think just moving them around don’t you?

[Indy-lou]

[QUOTE=urciegirl;6237608]
Kathy, thank you for summing up the situation accurately. Along with what Jill has put me through this year, she has just ripped off a Georgia breeder who paid for a Romantic Star breeding. The unethical behaviors of this business owner continue on. Last month a mare owner in Florida sent her mare to Jill on breed lease. Jill was supposed to pay for the haul but instead she left the mare with the hauler who was forced to feed and care for the 17-hand, 1/2 a bale eating mare for a month. The mare owner was frantic and desperately tried to find someone to breed lease the mare here in CA since she could not afford the haul back to FL. Jill then promised a cashier’s check to the hauler for hauling the mare another 250 miles, where the mare was dropped off at a stockyard near Jill’s house, a location where I am told she is “stashing” horses. They delivered the mare and received the cashier’s check. Jill then placed a stop payment on the cashier’s check, telling Chase Bank it had been lost. The hauler told me that Chase is prosecuting her for fraud. I encourage each of Jill’s victims to submit a form with their story to the Consumer Complaint Division of the Sonoma County District Attorney’s office. You may download the form here: http://da.sonoma-county.org/documents/consumer_complaint_form_and_instructions_english.pdf[/QUOTE]

I am very surprised and sorry to learn that the mare went to her after all they went through. I inquired after the mare and offered to take her. I was told the mare was placed, but since there were several of us who inquired, I thought she got placed elsewhere.

[mbm]

fwiw, i am not defending anyone.

i am merely stating that dirt lots are not unusual around here.

as for the number of horses in the google image - i think you are counting many of the horses twice… as some of those “images” are shadows…

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

[QUOTE=Indy-lou;6237667]
I am very surprised and sorry to learn that the mare went to her after all they went through. I inquired after the mare and offered to take her. I was told the mare was placed, but since there were several of us who inquired, I thought she got placed elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

The mare shipped to her the day before she was getting picked up by someone else via the owner. She was only there for a day or so before she was removed with the Sheriff. She is safe and happy elsewhere. That’s horrible about the check to the hauler, especially since the mare’s owner reimbursed Jill for the hauling fee from what I heard.

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=mbm;6237674]
fwiw, i am not defending anyone.

i am merely stating that dirt lots are not unusual around here.

as for the number of horses in the google image - i think you are counting many of the horses twice… as some of those “images” are shadows…[/QUOTE]

fwiw, I increased the image to help see it more closely in order to separate shadows from the babies – I knew from the beginning that shadows were evident. While I appreciate your comment, I feel confident the number in that photo is much closer to my number than you’d like to think. But either way, is 10 mares and babies ok in that dirt pen with no shade or cover vs. 18 I counted? Seriously, isn’t that spitting in the wind? The point is, Jill doesn’t just have a dirt pen that many deal with in Cali, she has a severely overcrowded dirt pen which is where her situation is beyond what most would consider “normal” or acceptable.

And, that’s before we count the ones in the next pen or the ones in those tiny pens with no cover.

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=mbm;6237674]
fwiw, i am not defending anyone.

i am merely stating that dirt lots are not unusual around here.

as for the number of horses in the google image - i think you are counting many of the horses twice… as some of those “images” are shadows…[/QUOTE]

Zoom in… just go to google, hit satellite view… and zoom, you can also rotate the view from N/W/E/S so that you can be sure the foals are not shadows. I was careful not to count the shadows. Notice that the middle pen is full of mares and foals… foals standing close to their dams, foals nursing, and foals laying flat out in the sun. They may look like little shadows, but they are actually foals.

I posted a view that ins’t zoomed in all the way because I couldn’t get every thing in one screen shot.

[mbm]

>shrug< i dont really care one way or another … i just wont sit here and “count” horses via google … that just doesn’t seem fair to me…

i do find it funny that all the “foals” are on the same side all at the same angle… and those angles match the angles of shadows of other things… hence why i thought they were shadows…

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=mbm;6237732]
>shrug< i dont really care one way or another … i just wont sit here and “count” horses via google … that just doesn’t seem fair to me…[/QUOTE]

Then why say those that will are wrong? You don’t think that the number of horses kept matters based on the size and set up of the property? There is no question the number of horses in that photo is well beyond acceptable for the size of the property as are the conditions (no cover, no shade, etc). I have just over 5 acres so I am well aware of the limitations of small properties.

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=mbm;6237732]
>shrug< i dont really care one way or another … i just wont sit here and “count” horses via google … that just doesn’t seem fair to me…

i do find it funny that all the “foals” are on the same side all at the same angle… and those angles match the angles of shadows of other things… hence why i thought they were shadows…[/QUOTE]

That would be the foals trying to use their mother for shade HENCE why they are on the same side as the shadows. And that’s not really funny at all.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=ljcfoh;6237735]
Then why say those that will are wrong? .[/QUOTE]

because sitting here and spying on people and “counting” horses is silly. and not very productive and mean spirited.

if you are so worried why not help those that are in need of it?

i hate when the internet gets all preachy and witch hunty.

you have no idea if those are mares and foals - neither do i…

i am editing this to add: i actually went and blew up the google image… there are a few foals in that image - but they arent where you think they are and most of the images you think are foals are shadows. i wont actually stoop to counting… but …

the foals are laying down in full sun flat out… not standing in the shadows of their mums.

the image looks to be taken about late may or so. it isnt hot then it actually doesn’t get really hot here much at all. maybe a few days out of the year over 90…

now, i think horses need shelter, but there are PLENTY of places that dont have shelter for their horses. would i keep them that way? Not in the hot days of the year. May/June is not the hot time of the year.

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=mbm;6237785]
because sitting here and spying on people and “counting” horses is silly. and not very productive and mean spirited.

if you are so worried why not help those that are in need of it?

i hate when the internet gets all preachy and witch hunty.

you have no idea if those are mares and foals - neither do i…

i am editing this to add: i actually went and blew up the google image… there are a few foals in that image - but they arent where you think they are and most of the images you think are foals are shadows. i wont actually stoop to counting… but …

the foals are laying down in full sun flat out… not standing in the shadows of their mums.

the image looks to be taken about late may or so. it isnt hot then it actually doesn’t get really hot here much at all. maybe a few days out of the year over 90…

now, i think horses need shelter, but there are PLENTY of places that dont have shelter for their horses. would i keep them that way? Not in the hot days of the year. May/June is not the hot time of the year.[/QUOTE]

Here’s the facts, go look again…There are at LEAST 8 babies some of which are lying down and some not in that one pen with those mares. And the point of picture from the beginning was speaking to the situation as a whole, people have a right to be concerned and certainly a right to discuss the situation. There is no witch hunt, though you seem to want to portray it that way.

[bingbingbing]

I am truly not one for a witch hunt, but if it rides a broom…

Seriously, the facts are astounding. The bad debt, the obvious need to collect, more mares and now offspring of her stallions.
From her March blog post:
Recently I bought a bunch of babies by my stallions by other breeders. It was enlightening to see the babies. They all arrived within a few weeks of each other. It seems like there is some confusion about how to feed babies and what is normal. The babies arrived in very, very poor condition to pretty good condition.
She needs help, the horses need help. And in these tough finical times, people need to do their research before leasing or giving a mare to anyone.
I know a few of the people who have given her mares, and honestly, they didn’t care where the mares ended up. They wanted them off of their feed bill.

[Mardi]

Google Earth and foreclosure

I just looked at farm on Hannah Road in Peteluma. Then I looked at a place in southern California where until very recently I had my horses.
The view of the stable in southern Calfornia was from approx 2010.
I know this because the additional structural improvements I made to my horse’s paddocks in late 2010, are not in the picture.
So the GE view of the farm that’s been labled as GFF, could be over a year old.

As for staying on a property after foreclosure, there was news story about a month ago saying that many banks are now allowing the tenants to remain, and pay rent. This way no one gets kicked out, the bank gets some money, and someone remains on the property and looks after it.

[Sonesta]

If she is not paying the mortgage, why in the world would the bank think she’d pay rent???

[mbm]

i would imagine rent would be a lot less. the mortgage on 700k is quite a bit… her place would probably rent for 2500 - 3k month?

[acottongim]

I have ZERO dog in this fight and am not gong to comment on any of this except to say Google Earth (at street view or the sat view) is not necessarily the most current - it is whenever they update it.

I was in OR a year or two ago and the goolge earth people rode their bikes past a resturant we were sitting at to “map” that street. They told us that yes, we would be seen and that they didn’t update but every few months (can’t remember the exact time frame but think it was every 6 months). I also put in my own farm and I know for a fact it wasn’t current - one of the horses in one of my paddocks had been sold (sold in Jan of this year), there is now grass in 3 of the paddocks that you don’t see grass in, and yesterday all of my horses are in the barn because of bad weather but Google Earth showed horses outside…

Not saying that anything Jill has or has not done is right, but it is also not right for everyone to jump to any conclusions based on a SAT image that may or may not be correct - and this also makes counting horses and determining if her current situation is bad/good even more silly. Chances are better than even that the image was not taken yesterday and it is very likely that the image was taken several months ago (possibly even last summer).