Help! Looking for Jill from Gray Fox Farms

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=mbm;6236943]
no, you are looking at the wrong property. her place is only around 5 acres and is all on one side of the road. the other side of the road is a different property entirely.[/QUOTE]

Actually, from the google overhead view, counting JUST the horses in the dirt pens, I am counting 35+ if you count each foal. She has a dirt pen (at the time the photo was taken) full of mares and foals.

Here is a photo from Google… head count in the dry pens comes to 36 horses. PHOTO Gray Fox Farm

Edited… I missed one… 37 horses, there is another in the tiny pen next to the manure pile.

[mbm]

fwiw, dirt pens are what we have around here in the summer the grass dies and goes brown - so unfortunately that aspect isn’t unusual.

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=mbm;6236991]
fwiw, dirt pens are what we have around here in the summer the grass dies and goes brown - so unfortunately that aspect isn’t unusual.[/QUOTE]

I do know that MBM and honestly the dirt pens aren’t really the biggest issue. 18 mares and babies in one pen without any form of shade is an issue and 8 more in the next small pen with just part of one tree for shade.

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=mbm;6236991]
fwiw, dirt pens are what we have around here in the summer the grass dies and goes brown - so unfortunately that aspect isn’t unusual.[/QUOTE]

@ljcfoh;6237003

I do know that MBM and honestly the dirt pens aren’t really the biggest issue. 18 mares and babies in one pen without any form of shade is an issue and 8 more in the next small pen with just part of one tree for shade.

I agree, and with that many horses, in such a small pen, its going to be dirt year round. We aren’t looking at dry grass here, we are looking at DIRT with no shade, and no hay out. And on Google Earth… which shows all of the surrounding pastures bright green with grass (indicating its spring), GGF’s horses are still in barren dirt pens.

I know that is how many people here in CA keep their horses. I used to keep my horse like that until I bought my first weanling. I understood how important space and green grass are for a youngster, and made arrangements so that I could provide that to my young one.

Mine is on grass year round. Yes, it gets dry in the summer, but mine does not live in an over populated PEN (this is NOT a pasture, this is a pen or paddock), therefore we have grass on the ground even in the summer… instead of dust and bare dirt like these babies are sunning in.

The breeders I know, in California, keep their horses on grass, not in small dirt pens.

[clint]

[QUOTE=mbm;6236991]
fwiw, dirt pens are what we have around here in the summer the grass dies and goes brown - so unfortunately that aspect isn’t unusual.[/QUOTE]

There is a huge difference between having a dry lot, normal in much of No. CA, and having 40 horses in a pen. I have a five acre parcel, and I can’t imagine having 40 horses here. Nor can I imagine feeding hay to 40 horses, with the current cost of hay, especially pregnant mares and babies. There is no way you could protect that many horses from aggression, nor could you keep all of them at good weight. I’m so sorry about this situation, and I hope there is a resolution in favor of the horses.

[Nootka]

can you post that photo in Photobucket or webshots? Many of us are at work and can’t view Facebook (and some don’t have an acct)

[genevieveg17]

I live down the road from Jill. If you are having a hard time getting a hold of her please feel free to contact me.
I was by her place earlier this week and she definitely has fewer horses on the property than she did a couple months ago. They all had hay in front of them and looked in good weight.
She realizes the pickle that she is in and has been busy developing a plan to downsize and get things in order.
As much pleasure as it brings some people to watch her world come crashing down, I think this might be a good time to practice self control when typing out responses on this thread.
Jill and I have had our differences over the years but I will not kick someone while they are down. If she needs help, I am here. She is well aware that she got in over her head and I think this is the time to throw her a life preserver instead of turning on another hose.

[Lynnwood]

A quick count of the listed broodmares on her web page = 40 . Not taking into account for any leased mares or ones not updated on the page.

Intended breedings for 2013 = 31

So if everything else is sold weanlings , yearlings etc. At the very least she will have potentially 71 mouths to feed and care for plus the stallions. That feed bill for the mares alone would have to run upwards of 10,000 a month.

I don’t care about the bashing or even the money owed. Just very concerned about the horses when that glass floor gives way.

Genevieveg, how do you help someone who is not even admitting they need it ? You are a good person , friend and a respected breeder but in just the last few days its known she scooped up ANOTHER free Rio Grande Mare …how is that downsizing

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=Nootka;6237112]
can you post that photo in Photobucket or webshots? Many of us are at work and can’t view Facebook (and some don’t have an acct)[/QUOTE]

Here you go, same view but now on Webshots

[Nootka]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;6237140]
Here you go, same view but now on Webshots[/QUOTE]

Wow, alrighty then.

THANKS:D

[Simkie]

It is interesting to look at the property on Bing Maps, too–the views appear to be quite a bit older. Actual green grass in some of the paddocks, and the west area looks like it was used as an arena, maybe?

Actual google EARTH (the program, not just maps online) also shows far fewer horses on the property.

Seems that things have certainly escalated somewhat recently.

[Goose7]

For what it’s worth, I posted this a couple days ago, but the “free Rio Grande mare” did not get to Jill’s. It is ours.
Due to what we learned not just on this thread but simply after reading the legal documents posted online with regards to said individual and their property, we halted the sale before it was final due to obvious concerns for the mare’s well-being. Lesson learned. We should do better research in the future.

However, we have been promised a future battle in the courts over the issue. In summary, she did not get another mare, but definitely is adamant on trying to do so.

[QUOTE=hackinaround;6237122]
A quick count of the listed broodmares on her web page = 40 . Not taking into account for any leased mares or ones not updated on the page.

Intended breedings for 2013 = 31

So if everything else is sold weanlings , yearlings etc. At the very least she will have potentially 71 mouths to feed and care for plus the stallions. That feed bill for the mares alone would have to run upwards of 10,000 a month.

I don’t care about the bashing or even the money owed. Just very concerned about the horses when that glass floor gives way.

Genevieveg, how do you help someone who is not even admitting they need it ? You are a good person , friend and a respected breeder but in just the last few days its known she scooped up ANOTHER free Rio Grande Mare …how is that downsizing :([/QUOTE]

[SGray]

am thinking future court appearances may be pro se

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=Goose7!;6237162]
For what it’s worth, I posted this a couple days ago, but the “free Rio Grande mare” did not get to Jill’s. It is ours.
Due to what we learned not just on this thread but simply after reading the legal documents posted online with regards to said individual and their property, we halted the sale before it was final due to obvious concerns for the mare’s well-being. Lesson learned. We should do better research in the future.

However, we have been promised a future battle in the courts over the issue. In summary, she did not get another mare, but definitely is adamant on trying to do so.[/QUOTE]

Phew… good news Goose! Another horse does not need to be caught up in this mess. I am wondering how she is going to “take you to court” over a free horse when her own lawyer, vet, and feed stores have judgements against her?

For those who say that the pot should not be stirred, and people shouldn’t be talking about this… I am sure Goose is glad that they found out before Jill got their horse.

And I am not sure how downsizing… and aquiring free mares goes hand in hand. Doesn’t sound like she said “Oh thank goodness you are keeping the mare, you know my ranch was just foreclosed on, and I was worried about how I could care for yet another horse”… nope instead she is threatening legal action.

REALLY?!?

I see NO REASON to enable this current situation.

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=genevieveg17;6237119]

She realizes the pickle that she is in and has been busy developing a plan to downsize and get things in order.
As much pleasure as it brings some people to watch her world come crashing down, I think this might be a good time to practice self control when typing out responses on this thread.
Jill and I have had our differences over the years but I will not kick someone while they are down. If she needs help, I am here. She is well aware that she got in over her head and I think this is the time to throw her a life preserver instead of turning on another hose.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry, Gen. I have sat on my hands and refrained from posting, but this isn’t a matter of someone just getting in over their head. She is in the predicament she is in because of her dishonest and unethical behavior. She doesn’t need to downsize, she needs to be out of the business. It is individuals like her that practice the behaviors she has that have given the business the black eye it has. She has posted under alters, slammed other individuals, posted misinformation and false information about other stallions and their owners, lied to people, issued bad checks, not paid bills, defaulted on contracts, made false claims and statements that she attributed to Dr. Timoney, just to name a few things she has done.

She had the world by the tail. She has some lovely stallions. She has some nice mares. And rather than taking that and running with it, she chose to throw other people’s carcasses under herself to make herself bigger and taller than she actually is. As someone that has been the focus of some of her attacks, the only thing I have sympathy for are the people she has screwed and the animals involved. I don’t post hearsay or innuendos. I’ve had first hand experience of Jill’s bad behavior on multiple levels. I’m absolutely disgusted that individuals continue to come to her defense as if she is just the victim of some unfortunate turn of events. This mess is entirely of her own creation. Period.

We’ve been in this business for pushing 30 years now (warmblood breeding) and have dealt with all of the ups and downs that accompany breeding horses. I firmly believe that the reason we ARE still in the business is because our reputation is everything. EVERYTHING! Bad mouthing the competition and/or spreading falsehoods and lies is about as dirty as it comes, IMHO. As I said, I hope the horses find a nice, gentle place to land and I personally will do what I can to help insure that. But Jill? She’s landing EXACTLY where she deserves.

[Simkie]

@genevieveg17;6237119

She realizes the pickle that she is in and has been busy developing a plan to downsize and get things in order.

[quote=Goose7!;6237162]However, we have been promised a future battle in the courts over the issue. In summary, she did not get another mare, but definitely is adamant on trying to do so.
[/quote]

She is obviously not “developing a plan to downsize” if she is still trolling for MORE mares and is threatening legal action when a sale didn’t go through because the seller discovered her history.

This woman sounds terribly sick and totally out of touch with reality and the gravity of the situation she’s in.

[Kmsuds]

[QUOTE=genevieveg17;6237119]
I live down the road from Jill. If you are having a hard time getting a hold of her please feel free to contact me.
I was by her place earlier this week and she definitely has fewer horses on the property than she did a couple months ago. They all had hay in front of them and looked in good weight.
She realizes the pickle that she is in and has been busy developing a plan to downsize and get things in order.
As much pleasure as it brings some people to watch her world come crashing down, I think this might be a good time to practice self control when typing out responses on this thread.
Jill and I have had our differences over the years but I will not kick someone while they are down. If she needs help, I am here. She is well aware that she got in over her head and I think this is the time to throw her a life preserver instead of turning on another hose.[/QUOTE]

Amen Genevieve:)

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

Hopefully in light of this situation, and the need to downsize, those prior owners can get their old mares back. If assets do get seized (not sure how all this works) I suppose said prior owners can get their mares back that way.

All in all, a sad and scary situation. In today’s economy it’s a horrible place to be in and costs keep getting higher. I know many breeders have downsized for this very reason. Probably not the best time/situation to be increasing herds and breedings.

[ise]

Genevieve - no one is beating Jill down - she’s done that to herself - so waving a finger at people posting on here is completely misdirected. I have to believe this thread and most of the people on it are focused on THE HORSES AND ONLY THE HORSES. The legal system will handle Jill and her business. But don’t for one minute try to move her to the Victim column - she has been running ahead of a tidal wave for a long time and her business ethics are non-existent.
And the only pleasure people concerned about this will enjoy is when all the horses are in a good place and Jill is held responsible for her actions.

So glad to hear that Rio Grande mare is not going there.

Kathy - I agree with totally.

[Joanne]

Genevieve: Since you are a neighbor, is it true that she has no shelter for the mares and foals out in the dirt paddocks or pens? In looking at the pictures of her place, it doesn’t look like there is and they are out in the elements (temp and sun) 24/7.