Help! Looking for Jill from Gray Fox Farms

[ddekete]

[QUOTE=IntegritySporthorses;6150892]
I have no dog in this fight but I do wonder one thing…

If Jill owes money to so many different people/organizations, why havn’t they banded together to force an involuntary bankruptsy?[/QUOTE]

Thats a really good question. Jills life and what she owes so many people is published all over her, HGS and Facebook and I am sure in tons of either areas. I am not questioning the legitimacy of all these people that are owed breedings, refunds, trainer fees, foal certs and bounced checks I just don’t understand how she is still going if it is really that bad. How in the world is she still selling and how in the world is she not in jail. Even if you have multiple warrants out they aren’t just going to sit on that and not just check on them once a year. It just doesn’t all add up. Again not defending her in any way and would never use her for anything - too scary to image what would happen with anything she is involved in but I just don’t see how she is still doing business and not in JAIL.

[DownYonder]

If Jill owes money to so many different people/organizations, why havn’t they banded together to force an involuntary bankruptsy?

It’s a little bit tough, I think, to pursue legal action against someone in another state for a few thousand dollars. You are usually looking at Small Claims Court, and if you are all the way across the country, are you really going to spend the time and money to fly to CA to present your case? If you don’t have good documentation and don’t present a convincing case to the judge, the judgment could go against you, and you are still out the funds she owes you, plus whatever you spent on airfare, hotel, meals, AND court costs.

I will say that publicizing the judgment in favor of John French MAY help encourage other folks to look at legal action. I would think if the courts in San Mateo County saw her name enough, they would become more pro-active in sending deputies after her.

[MountainCreek]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6146301]
Let’s recap.

Waldenbrook Farm (John French) took her to Small Claims Court to recover $5000 she owed him. (And good for him, for actually proceeding with legal action :yes:).

She failed to appear at the Small Claims hearing in Feb. 2010. John French apparently DID attend the hearing and judgment was rendered in his favor. IOW, the court ordered her to pay Waldenbrook Farm $5125 (I assume the extra $125 was to cover his court costs).

She apparently failed to pay per the judgment, so the court ordered her to appear at another hearing on Sept. 20, 2010. She failed to appear at that hearing also, so the court issued a warrant for her arrest on Sept. 22, 2010, with bail set at $5000.

That was over 17 months ago. So she STILL hasn’t been arrested? She better have a good lawyer since she has now ignored THREE separate court orders revolving around this one case. I can’t imagine how much her bail will be once the law finally catches up with her!

Meanwhile she is out at horse shows, and is able to send funds to IHF for her stallions’ nomination fees, etc. Just wow. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I’m really confused about the American legal system I think…could someone just call the local police station and say ‘Jill Burnell is currently home’??

We had a tenant who rented a apartment above our garage (who was not as nice/sweet as we thought). The kid missed his 1ST court date and the police came at 2am to get him a couple DAYS later! Jill has had an arrest bill warrant out for her for 17 months?? Serious? How has the legal system failed so poorly? Come on…

Also…her stallions are gorgeous. Out of the 38 BROODMARES ON HER SITE!!! 38 mares of GOOD quality (some amazing oh and some NEW to her!!!) you better be getting 5+ GORGEOUS foals a year…I’d LOVE a couple of her mares (not that I need more hahaha). Girl still has good connections!

HOW do people happily post on her fb like nothing is wrong?? She even leaves the nasty comments on her fb wall now! She didn’t even delete one a client left week ago!!

Why is everything wet in her pictures?? I do not understand…

OP—SHIP HER HOME.

[Kyzteke]

@mbm;6148611

fwiw, many horse transports don’t take the horses off each nite… they stay on the truck and come off at the mid resting point for a few days… then back on for another day or two.

When i was shipping my 2 yo i did a lot of research and felt that it is safer for the horse to stay on the trailer, then to be exposed to disease etc on the trip home. they stop and water every 3 hours etc.

That’s true they don’t. However in MY research prior to shipping dozens of horses to dozens of states over the last 16 yrs, I think it’s much better for them to get off and move around each night.

But again – this is a decision that is up to each owner. And again, unless someone saw a horse being shipped in a pony trailer where they were locked up 24/7 for 5 days, the talk of “inhumane and cruel” talk about that particular incident probably should cease.

As far as all the other stuff…I dunno…seems like when there is this much smoke there probably is some fire somewhere…

[mbm]

fwiw, the person being discussed does NOT live in San Mateo County. In fact San Mateo County is over 1.5 hours away so i doubt a Sheriff from there would come here.

knowing the human condition, my guess is that this person is using the negative talk to “rally the troops” and i am sure, given how humans work, that she is making MORE sales, etc now than ever before.

btw: unless something has changed in CA even if you win in Small Claims court - there is no way to collect the $$. Therefore most folks don’t go thru that process - because what is the point?

[Fourbeats]

Man, I’d sure like to have a few of her mares! No comment on the rest.

[TrueColours]

btw: unless something has changed in CA even if you win in Small Claims court - there is no way to collect the $$. Therefore most folks don’t go thru that process - because what is the point?

Really???

So if I understand this correctly, if 100 people all file in Small Claims Court against her, all 100 people win their cases for varying amounts, even if she has assets (her horses) there is no way at all of forcing her to satisfy the 100 judgements against her even using her tangible assets???

REALLY?! :eek:

[Justa_Bob]

This is a civil court matter – not something the police get involved in because it’s a business. Perhaps the way forward for clients and suppliers who have been defrauded or not paid is to contact the CA Attorney General’s office IN MASSE – and to start a FB page or website to organize this. Or the Federal Govt because much of the business is interstate. Small claims is a long slog. Unfortunately, horse care when under the court system is not always the best and any assets (horses) who are on the property will be stuck - regardless of ownership until the court decides the case(s).

[mbm]

[QUOTE=TrueColours;6151470]
Really???

So if I understand this correctly, if 100 people all file in Small Claims Court against her, all 100 people win their cases for varying amounts, even if she has assets (her horses) there is no way at all of forcing her to satisfy the 100 judgements against her even using her tangible assets???

REALLY?! :eek:[/QUOTE]

Really.

"You’ll have to collect the judgment yourself if you win in small claims court. The court will not collect it for you. "

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/collect.shtml

i will edit this and say there are a bunch of ways to collect but since the manner of her business is not a store and she isnt selling her property , nor is she an employee of anyone - there is no real way to collect.

Believe me - i know many people who have won in small claims but have never gotten the $$ owed them.

this sounds like the most likely way of collecting - but if there are no funds in the accounts - … --> Levy execution on the debtor’s checking or other account (bank levy) — A bank levy means that money will be taken from the debtor’s bank, checking or savings account to pay the judgment. You’ll need the name and branch address of the bank or other financial institution. Get a Writ of Execution (Form EJ-130) from the small claims clerk. There is a fee of $15 for issuing a Writ of Execution.

[Fourbeats]

And it’s not just California. Many states have that caveat. I have a judgment against a tack deal for a saddle I paid for in 2000 and never received and have yet to get a dime. We spent two years trying to collect and finally decided it was costing us more than the saddle was worth.

[Laurierace]

There is a way to collect. You get a lien against whatever property they own in their name be it a house, a car, a trailer etc. Unless they are professional scammers and don’t even own their own underwear like Mark Bliss they tend to try to sell something eventually and you get paid. You have to be very patient though obviously.

[mbm]

the other thing is that if someone does a BK then the folks owed $$ will never see any of it.

[TrueColours]

So - taking this a step further … what incentive is there for a sleazeball breeder, seller, stallion owner (whose sole intent was to defraud right from the get go …) to make good on what a purchaser bought from them, if the court system doesnt protect the interests of the purchaser when they have been wronged???

The sleazeball breeder / seller / stallion owner can laugh and say “Sue me!” all they want knowing full well that even if the purchaser does, and they win, the law wont protect the purchaser and the sleazeball breeder/seller/Stallion Owner wont be held accountable anyhow???

Is that pretty much how it goes???

Man oh man … Sunday morning wake up call for sure …

When the Winner stallion I was standing went to another farm, and ended up colicking and dying there, I had my “Oh $H!T” moment when I realized that I had collected about $6000.00 in breeding revenues, that I had already spent a long time ago, that I now needed to give back to the Mare Owners. I took a deep breath, said “Oh $H!T” a few more times, emailed them all and offered some alternatives to them which some took and some didnt and then said I would pay them back everything they had paid me but please be patient - it would take me a few weeks / month to do so. Which I did. I always wanted to be in a position that if my name ever came up in any context on any thread - anywhere, that these people would happily step up and tell their stories about how fair I had been in my dealings with them

I just couldnt imagine operating any other way and its truly sad that others dont operate to the same fair standards

And if people continue to deal with her after reading the multitude of threads on so many boards from so many people from so many different areas that have been burned in so many ways, then honestly - one cannot feel too sorry for them any longer …

[Laurierace]

If a person is only honest because they fear legal repercussion then they aren’t truly honest in my opinion. Being good comes from within not from the legal system.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=TrueColours;6151498]
So - taking this a step further … what incentive is there for a sleazeball breeder, seller, stallion owner (whose sole intent was to defraud right from the get go …) to make good on what a purchaser bought from them, if the court system doesnt protect the interests of the purchaser when they have been wronged???[/QUOTE]

not to sound too doom and gloom on this lovely sunday morning… but yep… but it isn’t just horses - that is the human condition. we are all really relying on each other to “play fair” and be honest. if someone doesn’t play by those innate rules - even in this day and age - nothing much will come of it.

heck - just look at what big biz has done to us 99% ers…

the horse world amazes me because it is all based on trust… and the fact that is (mostly) works out ok is beyond belief to me sometimes

[TrueColours]

Hmmm … so when its more lucrative to screw people and not deliver the goods and there are “0” ramifications for doing so - legally or otherwise - you wonder what the answer is so that more people dont get screwed out of their money?

You’d say that threads like this are the perfect medium for getting the message out about certain individuals, to reaching thousands of potential purchasers, but when time and time again someone comes onto this and other boards and says “I had no idea this is what this person was like” then you realize this concept of “letting people know” is rather flawed and limited as well …

the horse world amazes me because it is all based on trust… and the fact that is (mostly) works out ok is beyond belief to me sometimes

I sell a product to the horse crowd and for 8 years it has been based 100% on trust. If someone doesnt use PayPal, I take their word that they have mailed me a cheque today and I sent their purchase out today as well. Overwhelmingly people are amazed that I do so and invariably the comment is made “You dont know how nice it is that someone trusts your word. In this day and age that is almost unheard of”

In 8 years and thousands of transactions later, I have had to remind one person several times before I got payment. No one has screwed me and its refreshing to do business in this manner

Its so damned sad that it isnt this way for everyone with everything they are buying and everyone they deal with …

And Im not talking the Nigerian scammers or cons that people should know better about, but people that have the fancy web presence, that become a (valued?) member of the community, that ARE producing a terrific product for the most part and that buyers believe they know well enough to trust because they seem so nice. THATS the biggest disappointment - not being screwed by someone you dont know but by someone who you believe you DID know, you trusted and you believe held the same values that you did …

[ajimom]

As many have stated most of these matters are handled in small claims court. I did have the occasion to take someone to small claims and as in John French’s case the defendant didn’t show up several times and I was awarded a judgement.

Because the person didn’t show up a bench warrant was issued for contempt of court. With a bench warrant I don’t think that they actively seek the person but as someone else stated if they get a traffic stop it will come up in the police database.

Well exactly this happened. She got pulled over for having a head light out and got thrown in jail! I immediately got a call from her as to how we could possibly settle this case. I have to say it was a VERY satisfying moment.

I did get paid and it because she had been such a bonehead about the whole thing it ended up costing her about three times as much. I have to say that was also satisfying as well.

[Sonesta]

I don’t know how collection of a judgment works in California, but if she were in Texas you could get a writ of execution and go with the sheriff to her property and start seizing horses that belong to her and sell them at auction to recover the judgment owed. Generally you seize goods worth about ten times the amount of the judgment because at auction you won’t get full price.

Now, it’s a tiny bit more complicated with horses, because Texas has some homestead exemptions that still permit a person to protect their home, a vehicle, a horse, a few cows, a few pigs, etc. But if she owns multiple horses, they would be fair game. You’d be surprised how quickly people pay off when you start seizing their animals.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=TrueColours;6151547]

And Im not talking the Nigerian scammers or cons that people should know better about, but people that have the fancy web presence, that become a (valued?) member of the community, that ARE producing a terrific product for the most part and that buyers believe they know well enough to trust because they seem so nice. THATS the biggest disappointment - not being screwed by someone you dont know but by someone who you believe you DID know, you trusted and you believe held the same values that you did …[/QUOTE]

ohhh… a very hard lesson for me was that until you spend time with someone, and see how they behave you have NO idea who they are - no matter how fancy the website, how erudite the words, how lovely the horses…

only Real Life experience, over time, will tell you about someone…

the times i have been totally and completely amazed by who is “behind” the screen name or website is sadly too many.

[TrueColours]

I don’t know how collection of a judgment works in California, but if she were in Texas you could get a writ of execution and go with the sheriff to her property and start seizing horses that belong to her and sell them at auction to recover the judgment owed. Generally you seize goods worth about ten times the amount of the judgment because at auction you won’t get full price.

Interesting …

So using the same TX model, if the same rules would apply in CA, a purchaser screwed out of $1000.00 could seize a youngster for sale for $10,000. Or - if 10 “screwees” that were each owed $1000.00 each got together, hired one lawyer, got a collective judgement and Writ of Execution for $10,000, they could go and seize 10 youngsters @ $10,000 each?

Interesting indeed …