Help making dry lot paddocks!

[juliab99]

So we have a flat pad on a hill that we are planning on putting a round pen and two long narrow paddocks on. We have 2 horses right now, but I am hoping to eventually be able to have 2 in each paddock. So I have a couple questions, and any general advice would be appreciated as well!

1. I am planning on making them properly as the small dirt paddocks they’re in now (about 30’x40’) were an absolute muddy nightmare this past spring. So I’m thinking of making them similar to an arena, with a base and sand. Right now it is compacted dirt, I’m thinking of doing a gravel base, then landscape fabric and about 2 in of sand. How many inches of gravel should I do? We don’t get a ton of rain but do want good drainage, it is about a 2% slope in two directions.

2. Im going to have about a 20x20 area in the front part of each which is DG to not feed hay on sand (I feed in a slow feeder anyways, but some always gets on the ground no matter what). I dont believe we have stone dust in our area, so is DG a similar alternative? I am planning on compacting that as well.

3. The paddocks are a bit of an irregular shape, the wide end is 80’ wide (40’ each), and 40’ on the narrow end (20’ each). They are about 125’ long, with 20’ of that being DG so a little over 100’ of sand by 30’ (most of the length) each, is having long narrow paddocks like this ok? I’m a bit worried about them running and not having enough room to turn, they’re generally not too crazy and will have turnout in pasture for about 4-6 hours a day (well see how the grass holds up). Anyone have experience with this? Also is this too narrow to ever have two horses in? Theyd have over 1500 sq ft each but im just a bit worried about the width aspect, I wish we could go wider but it is a graded pad on a hill so it is a set width.

4. Is 2 inches of sand about right? I want it to be cushiony enough for them to run on and roll in, I was thinking maybe 1.5 inch but that doesnt seem like enough cushion for their joints, my boy does have slight arthitis (even though hes only six :sadsmile:). I want everything done as well as possible but also doing my best to keep the cost down as much as I can (still looking like itll be a sh*tton:eek:)

5. How far should the water be from their shelter/hay? I would like to put it as far as possible to encourage movement, but I also don’t want them to just not drink as much because they’re lazy.

6. I’m planning to put an automatic waterer on the fenceline so they can both use it. I have heard good things about Nelson waterers, anyone have one? Love/hate it?

7. Shelter height? How tall would it have to be for them not to hit their heads if they rear up a bit? Theyre not always the brightest…

Any other thoughts/advice? Thanks!

Some things to note: I live in socal and our horses are OTTB’s, they will be living in these 24/7 besides when they’re turned out on grass a small chunk of the day

[starsandsun]

Can’t answer all the questions, but based on my transformation of dirt paddocks to all weather, after grading out organics we installed 3-4 inches of #57 crushed stone, then landscape fabric, then 4 inches of stone dust, then when that firmed up, I put 3 inches of crusher run (gravel). I have terrific drainage and use these paddocks whenever it is wet out (I have 3, and they are each about 100 x 70, with gates in between, for 2 horses).

I’m not sure about sand on top of landscape fabric … when I think about it, I imagine the sand moving through the cloth with rain, then moving the cloth. Mine has stayed without movement now for 6-7 years.

If you need 2 paddocks, I think I’d consider dividing them midwise, instead of length wise. Splitting them this way may not be convenient for turnout, but I’d rather not have narrow if I can avoid it. I look at my 2, who are pretty level headed, and can’t see them doing well in paddocks 20-30 feet wide.

As to shelter height, I went probably overboard as mine are at least 12 feet high. Since they are in at night, I am not too worried about soft places to sleep/roll, but I may at some point put down mats in the run-ins. I use the shelter for their hay when it’s rainy, and the water trough is probably 40 feet away. It works for me.

[skip99]

I would not do landscape fabric under only 2 inches of sand. I had fabric under about 4 inches of somewhat loose stonedust and it got pulled up within a week by horses being horses. I tore it all out and just did the stone dust over our natural soil (topsoil scraped off of course). No drainage issues and then the stonedust was able to compact nicely. I did not do any gravel as I didn’t want rocks working up through the stone dust. We get about 50 inches of rain a year on average and have fairly well draining soil.

My two lots are a little bit smaller than what you are planning (about 30-32ft by 60ft each). I do put two horses in one when all the other paddocks are wet, they are two older gentleman who are usually quiet. My big, young mare has her own at the moment and would only be ok in a space this small with the right match. I figure even though they are small areas, it’s better than being stuck entirely inside. My lots are only used after soaking rains or if there is a lot of ice, otherwise I have a few acres in grass. I do not feed grain in these lots with more than one horse at a time and hang multiple hay nets around.

For shelter height I think as long as you have a 9’-9’6" wall height that would be plenty for most horses. My barn’s walls are about that tall and my big mare has a few feet over her head before the loft, but she knows there is a loft above and does not rear. I haven’t met too many who don’t understand a ceiling/roof. If you have one who bashes their head all the time, maybe go a little taller.

I have not noticed any issues with water location and drinking habits. They have one water trough in my larger “field” (just under two acres) and they walk to it when they are thirsty. I highly doubt in an area as small as you are talking about there will be anywhere you could put the water that would discourage them from drinking.

[Simkie]

Stone dust is just a regional name for screenings. Call your quarry and ask for screenings.

Totally agree that fabric under 2" is not going to work. One of the grid options might hold up better to horses. I’d use screenings here, too.

My shed is 8’ and I have one idiot who has stood up into it and knocked his head. He wasn’t badly hurt, but did have a nosebleed and probably a headache. I would’ve made it a bit taller, had we made the construction choices.

[juliab99]

Good to know about the landscape fabric! I was looking at the grids but they’re just so damn expensive for that large of an area:o the reason I want sand in the big area is so they can run and I don’t have to worry about their joints as much, since I know stone dust compacts quite hard. So should I instead do gravel, then screenings, then sand? Hopefully that would keep most of the sand from trickling down… Also to keep the sand in I was thinking of making the fence just have a bottom rail on the ground, would that work? Thanks for all you guys’ input!

Also I’m not sure if I can do it midwise, with the awkward shape and placement of things… If I can’t ever put more than one horse in each it wouldn’t be the end of the world, Id probably just divide a small part at the end for more individual paddocks. I really wanted the length for them to hopefully get more movement in (hence putting the water at the opposite end), and be able to get a decent trot or little canter going, I just don’t know if they would be dumb and gallop into the narrow end… so far (knock on wood) they don’t seem too injury prone (besides one rearing and bashing his head on a shelter). If it absolutely won’t work for them to be long and narrow like that I’d probably just have to make them smaller so they couldn’t work up much speed at all. I had a little hope it might work as I’ve seen some runs off stalls that were 12-30 feet wide and fairly long, but I don’t know if their horses had issues in those… Thanks again for all your help, so glad I asked on here!

[juliab99]

Ok I reconfigured it and managed to split it midwise… But still the widest I can go is 40’. Would 90’x40’ each be better than 120’x35-20’ each? Because of the slant I made it so theres a 12x24 sheltered area in addition off of the main area. Thoughts?

[starsandsun]

Yes, I think 90x40 is better.

[clanter]

Help making dry lot paddocks!

for me it has been real easy, but expensive. Just buy a lot of grass seed, spread it with care …and the rains will stop, the length of the drought is directly related to dollars you have spent on grass seed and fertilizer

[juliab99]

I’m still a bit conflicted about the sand depth… Would 2 inches be enough if I had a good layer of stone dust under it? Or should I do more?

[candyappy]

We used gravel screening in our dry lot and not only does it drain well, it packs solid and the ground stays firm after multiple inches of rain. Before the screenings it was a muddy mess. The best thing is it is cheaper than gravel and no rocks to step on…

[ElementFarm]

For our dry lot (which is about 80x100) we used screenings initially. However our land is sloping and the dry lot isn’t level. The screenings, even after being compacted, get washed away during hurricanes or any storms with torrential down-pours. Over the years, we’ve ended up using sand in places to fill in holes and ravines, and while that washes away too, it’s much easier to reclaim and less expensive to buy more of. So if you have any slope, keep that in mind.

Our dry lot contains a big matted/lighted/fans run-in shed, and the dry lot has gates that go to three separate pastures. We just open whatever gate we want the horses to graze on, and the other two pastures can rest. But we only needed to build the one big shed, instead of 3. The water trough is there, and we can feed hay and grain out there, without going into the enclosure with the horses, which is great for convenience or non-horsey friends and family ‘helping’. My horses aren’t out 24/7, they are stalled overnight (in winter, days in summer), and we pick the dry lot of manure/organics weekly.

The run-in is built with 6x6 posts and the roof is I think 9’ tall at the lowest point, but 12’-14’ at the peak.

[spacehorse]

I really think you will regret down the road attempting to use sand. It is too shifty. If they get to running/turning hard/etc they will dig down to the fabric and ruin your base PDQ. Screenings/stone dust is the way to go.

[Simkie]

@spacehorse

I really think you will regret down the road attempting to use sand. It is too shifty. If they get to running/turning hard/etc they will dig down to the fabric and ruin your base PDQ. Screenings/stone dust is the way to go.

Yeah, I totally agree.

There are some similarities between making a dry lot paddock and making an arena, but footing isn’t one of them, IMO. In an arena, horses are controlled. You’re dragging it and working the footing regularly. You don’t have hay fines on it or generally much manure. You have layers including your base and your actual footing and maybe something in between, but you work hard to maintain your base and keep the footing even. And you keep organics OUT.

In a dry lot, horses are pawing and rolling. They’re galloping around like idiots occasionally. You have organics in hay and manure, and even if you’re religious about picking them up, some will still persist. You’re not working the footing nearly as much as an arena, especially given how long horses are in that space.

@juliab99 if you try to build your sacrifice area like an arena, you’re going to be really unhappy when the horses paw down through the base creating their rolling pit, and when they work manure into the sand.

Screenings definitely aren’t too hard for a sacrifice area. A lot of people just dump right on the ground, and it works fine. Others put down fabric or grid and then screenings. Depending on how much a load is in your area, you might try the first, and see how it goes. If that will work for you, you sure can save some dollars on the fabric/grid.

[juliab99]

@Simkie

Yeah, I totally agree.

There are some similarities between making a dry lot paddock and making an arena, but footing isn’t one of them, IMO. In an arena, horses are controlled. You’re dragging it and working the footing regularly. You don’t have hay fines on it or generally much manure. You have layers including your base and your actual footing and maybe something in between, but you work hard to maintain your base and keep the footing even. And you keep organics OUT.

In a dry lot, horses are pawing and rolling. They’re galloping around like idiots occasionally. You have organics in hay and manure, and even if you’re religious about picking them up, some will still persist. You’re not working the footing nearly as much as an arena, especially given how long horses are in that space.

@juliab99 if you try to build your sacrifice area like an arena, you’re going to be really unhappy when the horses paw down through the base creating their rolling pit, and when they work manure into the sand.

Screenings definitely aren’t too hard for a sacrifice area. A lot of people just dump right on the ground, and it works fine. Others put down fabric or grid and then screenings. Depending on how much a load is in your area, you might try the first, and see how it goes. If that will work for you, you sure can save some dollars on the fabric/grid.

I appreciate the input that is a good point… I’m still concerned it will be a bit hard for them to run on often, I wouldn’t be concerned if he didn’t have arthritis and is already a bit stiff. It also is going to be used a lot more than most people’s sacrifice paddock because we’re not going to have much pasture at all, so they will be in this area about 70-80% of the time. And I am definitely using just screenings in the area hay will be fed so hopefully that should keep hay off the sand for the most part. I hear what you’re saying about them pawing to the base, so maybe to prevent that I could do some gravel, a decent layer of screenings, and then the sand on top of that? I plan to have boards to prevent the sand from washing away, still figuring out whats best to use for that. Where I live sand paddocks is kind of the standard :sigh: What I may do is start with just the base and screenings and if I am happy with that I’ll leave it, if not I guess I can always add sand on top later!

For the base and screenings, should I still do some sort of boards around the bottom to keep it from eventually washing away? We don’t have much rain but this past rainy season there still was a bit of flooding, although we have improved the property drainage since then.

Also, so envious of the people who have a dry lot connected to all their pastures with gates, such a great set up! I would do this if I could but our property is on a big hill so it just wouldn’t work with the sort of tiered layout:p

[juliab99]

@ElementFarm

For our dry lot (which is about 80x100) we used screenings initially. However our land is sloping and the dry lot isn’t level. The screenings, even after being compacted, get washed away during hurricanes or any storms with torrential down-pours. Over the years, we’ve ended up using sand in places to fill in holes and ravines, and while that washes away too, it’s much easier to reclaim and less expensive to buy more of. So if you have any slope, keep that in mind.

Our dry lot contains a big matted/lighted/fans run-in shed, and the dry lot has gates that go to three separate pastures. We just open whatever gate we want the horses to graze on, and the other two pastures can rest. But we only needed to build the one big shed, instead of 3. The water trough is there, and we can feed hay and grain out there, without going into the enclosure with the horses, which is great for convenience or non-horsey friends and family ‘helping’. My horses aren’t out 24/7, they are stalled overnight (in winter, days in summer), and we pick the dry lot of manure/organics weekly.

The run-in is built with 6x6 posts and the roof is I think 9’ tall at the lowest point, but 12’-14’ at the peak.

That is similar to how I’m planning to build our “run in” (more of a roof with 1-2 sides), 9.5’ at the lowest then a slant roof up to 11-12’. Your set up sounds great, how many horses do you have?

[Simkie]

@juliab99

I hear what you’re saying about them pawing to the base, so maybe to prevent that I could do some gravel, a decent layer of screenings, and then the sand on top of that?

How do you see more layers of stuff as helpful when it comes to pawing? All I see is more expense putting all that in, and more frustration when the horses paw through it all. What am I missing in your plan?

There are arenas that are only screenings. They work fine, as long as they’re harrowed.

If you use boards to keep your sand (or other fill) in place, consider how that will also keep water in place, and how water will move off your surface. French drains will probably need to go under everything.

[juliab99]

@Simkie

How do you see more layers of stuff as helpful when it comes to pawing? All I see is more expense putting all that in, and more frustration when the horses paw through it all. What am I missing in your plan?

There are arenas that are only screenings. They work fine, as long as they’re harrowed.

If you use boards to keep your sand (or other fill) in place, consider how that will also keep water in place, and how water will move off your surface. French drains will probably need to go under everything.

I was under the impression the screenings would be harder to paw through, otherwise how does it work with just screenings? That could work though if I do a thicker layer of screenings and drag it with the arena drag… I just wouldn’t want to do it terribly often, I’m not sure how much would be necessary. Im not set on sand, just don’t want a super hard compacted surface.

[Simkie]

@juliab99

I was under the impression the screenings would be harder to paw through, otherwise how does it work with just screenings? That could work though if I do a thicker layer of screenings and drag it with the arena drag… I just wouldn’t want to do it terribly often, I’m not sure how much would be necessary. Im not set on sand, just don’t want a super hard compacted surface.

If you have like 6" of screenings, it’ll take a pretty dedicated horse to get through that to whatever your base is! Not to say it won’t happen :lol: but you’ll cry a lot less about the hole if you just need to shovel more screenings down, vs if you need to try to reconstruct your complex layers.

Screenings don’t compact to concrete. They’re still pretty giving, even if you do nothing with them ever.

If you don’t want to drag your sacrifice area like you would an arena, though, definitely don’t construct it like an arena. Arenas take a fair amount of maintenance!

[juliab99]

@Simkie

If you have like 6" of screenings, it’ll take a pretty dedicated horse to get through that to whatever your base is! Not to say it won’t happen :lol: but you’ll cry a lot less about the hole if you just need to shovel more screenings down, vs if you need to try to reconstruct your complex layers.

Screenings don’t compact to concrete. They’re still pretty giving, even if you do nothing with them ever.

If you don’t want to drag your sacrifice area like you would an arena, though, definitely don’t construct it like an arena. Arenas take a fair amount of maintenance!

I don’t mind dragging, just wouldn’t want to quite as much as an arena, like I’d be fine with 2-3 times a month just to keep it a little bit loose if that would work. Also how is the dust with screenings? We get no rain for about 9 months of the year:sigh: If I use sand I was going to put in whoa dust (the pail it comes in should have enough for my arena and just enough left over for the paddocks) but I doubt it would work for screenings… I’ll probably end up having to water a decent amount either way since dust is a bit of a big deal for my special horse, as he’s missing eyelashes and part of his eyelid on one eye from an injury so can’t keep dust out as well:sadsmile:

[Simkie]

@juliab99

I don’t mind dragging, just wouldn’t want to quite as much as an arena, like I’d be fine with 2-3 times a month just to keep it a little bit loose if that would work. Also how is the dust with screenings? We get no rain for about 9 months of the year:sigh: If I use sand I was going to put in whoa dust (the pail it comes in should have enough for my arena and just enough left over for the paddocks) but I doubt it would work for screenings… I’ll probably end up having to water a decent amount either way since dust is a bit of a big deal for my special horse, as he’s missing eyelashes and part of his eyelid on one eye from an injury so can’t keep dust out as well:sadsmile:

I’ve used screenings around my barn in a couple different climates and not found them dusty at all. I also don’t find them hard. But if you wanted to keep the top layer “fluffy,” you could certainly drag it. Do keep in mind that if you have a top fluffy layer, it will be harder to keep manure out of that layer. But maintaining screenings to be loose is going to be a LOT less work than trying to maintain an arena like surface, especially with the amount of time you’re planning on using your sacrifice area. Arenas take a lot of work, even when they’re “just” being used as arenas.