I recently acquired a new horse. I have tried EVERY bit imaginable on him. He hates single joints, french links (although he does salivate well in a french link). He leaned on a happy mouth. Did not like a black rubber D bit. We tried loose ring, D ring, eggbutt. He hates rollers of any type.
He is very mouthy and tongue sensitive. He is an OTTB.
Recently I acquired a mullen mouth Kimberwick with a low port. For the first time ever, he reached down and into the bit while lunging. So I rode him. He went well and quiet with it as a snaffle and stopped decently well, and accepted the contact. But he also really yielded his head with it as a curb. With every other bit he refused to yield his head and often braced against the bit as well as mouthed it constantly… But, this bit isn’t legal.
so…
Please give me suggestions for legal bits that offer stability and maximal tongue relief.
we will continue to school in the kimberwick at home. As I understand it Kimberwicks are disliked in the hunter world.
Since he liked the mullen, what about a mullen mouth snaffle of some sort?
https://www.horseloverz.com/english-…CABEgImEfD_BwE
It’s not going to give you the curb effect. You could try a mullen Tom Thumb pelham.
https://www.doversaddlery.com/tom-thumb-pelham/p/X1-01124/
Maybe a Pelham with a low port? My OTTB who really wanted stability used to show in a low port (not Myler low port but a plain port) D ring, but mine tends to hate a bit with leverage so I’ve never tried him in a pelham.
I was looking at a mullen mouth baucher since I know many horses who dislike tongue pressure do very well in them, specifically OTTBs. Either that or a full cheek mullen mouth, but then he would not get the tongue relief.
the curb effect is not important to me, I just wanted to point out that the only thing affected by it was his head yielding which improved.
i was considering trying a french link baucher bit, as he salivates really well with a french link, and I thought it may be the tongue pressure… I hesitate though as so far he doesn’t like any joints. He braces against them and becomes distracted. But perhaps this is because none of the bits were suspended like a kimberwick is?
See above and if you could give me your thoughts that would be great. I just posted bits I may try.
What about something like this? It’s jointed but the joints don’t create tongue pressure like a typical jointed bit.
​​​​​​https://www.doversaddlery.com/myler-w-lw-prt-lse-ring-mb33wl/p/X1-010320/
Baucher isn’t considered a conventional bit for hunters.
If you are located in Canada kimberwicks are legal as per EC rules. That being said, I completely understand why you would want a different cheek piece, as they are definitely considered ugly in the hunter world. I would also lump bouchers into the ugly hunter bit category and you may find some judges will consider a boucher to be unconventional even though it isn’t according to the rule book.
I’m leaving links to a Canadian retailer’s website assuming that you are in Canada.
This might be a good option for you as it should be very similar to your kimberwick, but it’s pretty pricey http://www.bahrsaddlery.com/sprenger-comfort-mouth-pelham.html
You could also try something like this d ring since it offers a good amount of tongue relief, but since you said he doesn’t like jointed bits, this might be a no-go http://www.bahrsaddlery.com/can-pro-jointed-bent-mouth-large-dee.html
Sprenger also has ported snaffles like these ones that might be good, but again they are pricey and I could only fund them in eggbut and loose ring cheeks, which aren’t stylish in the hunters, but are completely legal.
http://www.bahrsaddlery.com/sprenger-kk-conrad-schooling-bit.html
http://www.bahrsaddlery.com/sprenger-comfort-mouth-mullen.html
The Shires ported d might be the best option though if you don’t need the leverage of a kimberwick or pelham and it is probably what I would try next on this horse. Here is a link to Bahr’s http://www.bahrsaddlery.com/blue-alloy-hunter-dee-with-medium-port.html and I think that Spruce Meadows Tack Shop also might stock them, but you would need to email or call them to ask, as I don’t see them on their site.
The snaffle Peggy posted is what I used to show in with my OTTB. He likes the stability of the D ring mullen and did better with the tongue relief of the small port
If the horse goes well in a kimberwicke with a low port or mullen mouth, then look for the same mouthpiece in a tom thumb pelham. That will be legal and feel very similar to the horse with two reins.
“April 24, 2018, 04:05 AM
Hey guys! I got a new horse last week, but am unable to ride him as I do not have a saddle that fits him yet. He will be an eventer, but we are focusing on flatwork for the next 2 weeks. Our first (schooling) show is in 3 weeks- dressage, and low jumpers (2’0” or less). He is lean, but not well muscled (getting there… I have been riding him for 2 weeks now), he has his leads, lead changes, seeking contact, transitions, leg yields, and square halt down.
However, he has the awful tendency to “forget” his front end. He reaches under him well with his hinds, but when doing circle work, he really drops his shoulder. It gets so bad I have to pull his head almost 90° over to avoid hitting the fence, because he won’t turn… almost as though he can’t (because he forgets to use his front). So ignoring riding cues for now… I want to know a few things for groundwork.
- What can I do on the ground, whether free lunging, lunging, or in hand, to get him to lift and use his front end, and “reach” with his front legs? What can I do to keep his shoulder from dropping and his head straighter through the turns?
- A good friend of mine believes he needs to also re-learn his body movements as he has been out of work for a year or two, we think. She says free lunging will be good for this. Is this a good idea, and how often should I let him run around?
- I have been working in hand on the “3 gaits of the walk”- collected, free, and extended. I have also been working in hand on lateral movements off of leg pressure (using my hand) and lighter bit contact. Is this a good idea to set him up for easier, more harmonious turns, transitions, and riding later on, or not?
- What are good exercises to build muscle when not riding? I’m currently focusing on varied work (some intense flatwork at beginning of lesson, more relaxed hill work/cool off outside). I have access to a bank, hills, but mostly flat area. I would love to ride, but I don’t want to ride him with an ill fitting saddle."
You obviously do not like the responses you got on the Dressage Forum.
Again you are posting different statements in different posts.
No mention here, on the Hunter Forum of lack of condition, lack of saddle, etc.
You say the curb effect is not important to you, yet you’ve mentioned this “head yielding” multiple times in your posts from the other forums. And here you’re saying that it “improved” because of the kimberwick… but that is still not the issue. The real issue is that this horse is under-muscled and has serious gaps in his education. That’s not a crime, but if you want to call yourself a trainer then you need to be able to recognize it and take the appropriate steps to fix it. Slow down. Revisit the basics. Ride him from your seat and legs, not your hand. Who cares where his head is? Pick a level-appropriate contact and ride him to it. If you are steady in the hand and consistently riding forward and reasonably straight, he will LEARN to accept the contact. It takes time. Certainly more than a few weeks, or even a few months depending on horse and rider.
Other posters have been a little confused by your terminology here… I do sort of understand what you’re trying to say about the bit hanging in the horse’s mouth from the cheeks, but I’m not sure why it matters in this situation. Also, what makes you say he braces against the bit joints, and gets distracted? He’s not distracted, he’s uneducated. He’s unsure about contact. Based on your other post, he’s also unbalanced and unsure of where his own feet are. That’s not his fault, but you need to give him the right guidance. Otherwise you’ll end up trading one problem for another.
I wondered about that too… 
Had to say something!
if any or all of these posts are true, you are flailing about rushing and pressuring this horse to be something it is not
no bit in the world is going to make a difference
The cheek piece means nothing for tongue relief. The cheek piece may provide stability if a fixed cheek. It may provide help with steering. It may contribute to poll pressure (or not…the Boucher will not have poll pressure the way most curbs do).
It it sounds like this horse goes like your average under educated OTTB. It will help to find a bit that helps him keep his mouth quieter. If you think that tongue relief is that piece, there are tons of options from thin to fat, mobile or fixed. Based on your description, a short shank Pelham with low port would be totally appropriate to try and an acceptable look. You can lessen the curb effect by putting the chain looser and/or wrapping the chain or using a soft guard. I’m not sure why you are anti-Pelham?
It also sounds like you’ve got a ways to go before this horse is going to be ready for the show ring, and by the time you get there, your bit choice may change.
Kimberwick is not illegal. It’s considered unconventional in Hunters but at schooling shows it really won’t matter much if you get a good trip in. And you can get exactly the same mouthpiece with different side pieces that match what everybody else has no problem. You might google the Mik Mar Comfort Snaffle. Plain fixed dee ring side unjointed mouth with low port that’s also called a low port Mullen. Some horses live it and carry it well. Don’t get the one with the hook on the side ( they are for an attachment that is illegal. Get the plain dee side one.
JME but many fussy types hate too many moving parts on their bits. To much going on. They get fussing or toss the head and everything moves and rattles which make things move more. That includes things we think are " soft" like multi part mouthpieces, loose ring sides or jointed dee sides…anything that moves. We think it’s milder, Horse hates it, bugs them, scares them sometimes. Think like a horse.
The Sprenger Duo is my favourite bit by far for these types. It comes in D-ring. 
Was he actually reaching down into the bit or was he just feeling the pressure of the extra leverage causing a false sense of being in the bridle?
Someone explain to me - “what is yielding his head?”
A horse isn’t ridden from the head. It’s ridden from the body.
My thoroughbred does very well in a waterford, I think its is because the happy mouth and other snaffles didn’t fit her mouth shape correctly. The waterford also reduced grinding issues that we had from greenness.
