Help me ID this bit

[mika0116]

You would think this is such a simple bit, but the one pictured is 25 years old or older and I am having trouble finding one just like it…

I know it is:

• loose ring snaffle
• copper

I think it is:

• at least 16mm width - thoughts?
  The middle piece is not “shaped”, I don’t think it is french link nor a dr bristol because it sits the flat way (trans angled?) in the the mouth vs more “upright in the mouth”

What would you call this lozenge in the middle, especially positioned the “flat” way in the mouth?

This bit feels like the closest I can find, but I annoyingly need it in 6 inches: https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/stubben-anatomic-loose-ring-snaffle-bit-15208?sku=2109780923&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organicshopping&srsltid=AfmBOoqRc1uz9h4EZSd4zL0I6t5D-waYOgu_DxEtQW6uavyEFccFDUsvxIQ&gQT=1

Or this - comes in 18mm in a 6 1/8"
https://www.doversaddlery.com/hs-cppr-plus-dbl-jnt-ls-rng-18/p/X1-010796/

Have heard good things about this too: https://us.gsequestrian.com/products/neue-schule-tranz-lozenge-16mm-70mm-loose-ring?variant=40735255658544&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=GS+Equestrian+Feed+USA&utm_content=Neue+Schule+Tranz+Lozenge+16mm+70mm+Loose+Ring&currency=USD&srsltid=AfmBOorj0rk5yN2RnAmBeo2Lrq6kfTOoOmL5orBmZP1-kQaz1L5x4-5opxg&gQT=2

[GreyDes]

Any shot it’s an older Herm Sprenger? It looks similar to their Dynamic line - https://hermsprengerusa.com/collections/dynamic-rs-bits/products/dynamic-rs-loose-ring-double-jointed

[mika0116]

It might be!

but the center piece is very uniform - there’s no like “shape” or curve to it? when looking at it “transverse” as if you’re looking at the horse dead on with how the bit actually lays. It’s very flat/ plain in the horizontal position.

maybe that was a sign of the times? before they made the center mouth pieces more “shaped”? It is honestly almost like a french link piece turned transverse to go horizontal in the mouth …

I should take more photos from other angles… lol

[CBoylen]

Yes, absolutely looks like a kk ultra to me.

[endlessclimb]

Use a caliper to measure it so you’re sure.

Agreed it looks like an HS. I have one, but it’s a 5" so not comparable. I could get pictures of it and a similar NS for you if you’d like.

[beowulf]

Are you sure of the age? If so it’s unlikely to be a KK Ultra. I don’t believe those were around 25 years ago in that specific style. I seem to remember them coming to the forefront late 2000s though.

You may have a custom bit. They were far more prevalent 25 years ago than now. There is one bit maker whose logo was a kangaroo who made custom bits and his bits were everywhere but it’s been so long his name is escaping me. I believe his first name was John.

The earlier KK Ultras would have a triangle on the left side of the mouth piece.

Korsteel and Toklat bits were very popular off the shelf 25 years ago.

[furlong47]

I think I have basically the same bit…probably at least 20 years old. I had the tack shop order it for me because I wanted a full copper mouth and a lot of them at the time had only the bean/link in copper. I’m pretty sure it was a Korsteel or similar to that level… not an expensive brand.

[Posting_Trot]

Could it be a JP Korsteel bit:

https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/jp-korsteel-copper-oval-link-loose-ring-snaffle-6145?sku=2109694272&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organicshopping&srsltid=AfmBOoq2B0LH5aNktzh9Z4aActxu0_j6AQ30o2kk4h4DJA6yPXC9gxxm_JA

[mika0116]

this looks nearly exactly like it. Where did you order it?!?

[mika0116]

So even better angles now!

@GreyDes - looks close to it. Annoyingly, I need a 6inch and closer to18mm

@beowulf - trainer is photographed in the mid late 90s/pre 2005 with said bit at shows. there is no logo or identifying mark anywhere on it… no triangle to speak of, so not a KK Ultra

@furlong47 - I really think yours is the closest, back then I think the Korsteels were full copper… The shape and “fatness” of it looks really similar - using calipers to measure mine is ~18 mmish

@Posting_Trot the shape is totally correct - annoyingly I need it in a 6 inch size

@CBoylen trainer said it is not a kk ultra as they didn’t exist back then - also the kk’s are apparently “straighter” across – this one has a lot more “curve” like the Stubben Anatomic

@endlessclimb - yes please, photo references would really help me narrow it down!

[endlessclimb]

That 6" size is going to screw you. I’ll try to get pics of anything I have that’s in the ballpark.

[mika0116]

Ugh I know - I feel like that’s the game I play… 5’9 and long limbed and slightly long torso’d so the horses I work nicely on are sort of just sort of… large.

I’ll say I am enjoying some of the reeducation I am getting about bits, but holy crap it is like hunting mythical animals when you find something that works and you don’t own said bit and said bit is either as old or older than I am…

[furlong47]

Cross Road Tack Shop in Quentin, PA is where I got it

[Janet]

It isn’t a French Link or Dr. Bristol, because the center piece is a lozenge. (On a Dr. Bristol or French Link the center piece is a plate.)

I have a older KK Ultra (at least 20 years old) and I am looking on it now.

• The lozenge in the middle looks very similar, but the “bars” of the KK Ultra are straighter than the bars of the bit you have.
• My bit has “KK Ultra” on one of the bars, and “Aurigan” on the other.
• My bit has an arrow/triangle on the end of one of the bars. IIRC it is supposed to be on the left side, and point forward.

So I do not think yours is a KK Ultra.

[mika0116]

Yep - thanks for all this

The middle piece is not “shaped”, I don’t think it is french link nor a dr bristol because it sits the flat way (trans angled?) in the the mouth vs more “upright in the mouth”

I tend to hedge my language as people can get testy. I was 99.95% sure this was neither a dr. bristol nor french link

Awesome for contributing to my understanding of that It is not a KK ultra - absolutely no arrow or triangle and my trainer who owns said bit used it in the eq & hunters back in the 90s /early 2000s and KK ultras did not exist then as far as we know.

Also yes, the bars are much straighter on the KKs vs this one - this is confirmed via a bit bank that I have been emailing with.

I just ordered a loose copper snaffle with lozenge in 6 inches and 18mm - I am just concerned that the bars aren’t going to have the right angle. Was pretty inexpensive (under $70), but no returns due to biosecurity.

I feel like this is it… but I cannot find full copper in 6" as @endlessclimb indicated would be the problem…

JP Korsteel Oval Mouth Copper Loose Ring5.5 in

https://fairhillsaddlery.com/products/jp-korsteel-stainless-steel-copper-oval-link-loose-ring-snaffle-bit-6?_pos=5&_sid=6bba79f1d&_ss=r

[endlessclimb]

If it was an eggbutt instead of a loose ring could you get away with a 5.5"?

Or any other cheekpiece that won’t pinch.

[mika0116]

that was my thought as well after immense frustration finding 6" bits LOL.

I think I can be indifferent to loose ring vs eggbutt (i generally have good hands), but I do think horse likes the movement of the loose ring…

going to talk to my trainer, but after a show this coming weekend (that I am spectating not participating in - I hate being that client with “problems” while other clients need access to trainer more)

& maybe I order one that is returnable and we try it post show?