I wrote and illustrated an introduction to Endurance rides as my Inktober project last year. It’s a step by step of what happens when for the newbie. I can’t get a direct link to work for whatever reason, but if you go to www.facebook.com/customchestnuts and look under photos it’s in its own album. That might give you some ideas, and if your budget stretches that far I’m willing to work with you to get printed booklets made for your talk.
3 Likes
Ground skills number one is to be well behaved for the veterinarian to check your horse. They will take the heart rate (aka pulse) with a stethoscope, look in the horse’s mouth (so hands on, lifted lips, thimbnail pressed to gum to check capillary refill), check the jugular refill, check hydration (skin pinch), check for pain in the back, check legs, listen to the gut sounds high and low behind the ribcage on both sides, lift the tail, check anal strength (fingers under the tail).
If your horse won’t stand it’s difficult for the vet to hear the heart beats and gut sounds. If your horse is obnoxious about not standing and puts anyone’s safety at risk, the horse will be removed from competition. Odds are good that at least two different vets will have to check your horse, and at large rides there may be an extra person to take the heart rate (pulse timer) when you show up for your check after each loop. So the horse must be accepting of random strangers putting their hands on and using a stethoscope on them.
It’s all about getting the heart rate down ASAP and keeping it down during the check. With some there’s a good bit of babying - don’t upset the horse!
Vets are happy to help you, especially when you tell them up front that your horse is new to the sport, but crowding, pulling away into other vet lanes, biting, nipping or kicking can get your horse kicked out. Even in my very limited experience I have seen it happen a couple of times.
3 Likes
Electrolytes! What brands, how much how often - and remember they are asking “What amount at what frequency is a good place to start?” because of course it depends on the horse and conditions, but they want some idea of a starting point.
1 Like
I am primarily an eventer, but, decades ago, I was recruited to be part of the support team for an experienced endurance rider (Stag Newman (sp?)) in the Old Dominion.
The biggest difference I noticed was in cooling off the horse. As an eventer, I am used to focusing on the large muscle groups (especially the hindquarters). But at the endurance ride I was told to focus on the large blood vessels (mostly in the legs).
Of course, I did what I was told, but I remain curious about WHY there is a difference.
2 Likes
I understand this in premise, but honestly I don’t think that the 1/4 dose works well enough in high stress situations. At home, sure. But trailering-camping-etc., I have a half tube minimum, a full dose if I have one prone to ulcers.
That’s so awesome that you got to crew for Stagg. He’s one of the best!
My thoughts on the major muscle groups vrs. blood vessels- cooling the blood vessels is going to bring the horse’s pulse down faster (important for time) and eventers (well as least now that we don’t have the several phases of x country) are generally done for the day when you are cooling them so you probably aren’t as worried that the muscles might tense up with cold water. An endurance horse, unless it’s the finish, needs to keep going and tight muscles could mean a pull or re-check.
Also for this particular horse (as I’m sure Stagg was riding a super fit Arab) he probably didn’t need total dousing. I mostly ride heavier muscled horses like Morgans and I do water everywhere unless the weather is cold
1 Like
I know you dislike endurance so perhaps this is not the thread for you
4 Likes
I dont dislike endurance. I dislike 100 mile continuous rides on treacherous trails with fatalities nearly every year.
Shorter distances sound like a ton of fun.
But uh. Thanks for the welcome??
Edit:
" For every 1,000 starts:
- All starts incurred 0.28 fatalities;
- Limited distance (≤ 30 miles) incurred 0.12 fatalities;
- 50-mile competitions incurred 0.34 fatalities;
- 100-mile events incurred 1.48 fatalities."
Mitigation Of 100-Mile Endurance Horse Ride Fatalities | Stable Management
1 Like
Haven’t they proved that cold hosing a hot horse doesnt tighten muscles/cause cramping?
In 24 years of distance competition, there’s only been one ride that I’ve attended with an equine fatality. He did a 12.5 mile. The horse was mine. He reared in the trailer as we were leaving the ride for some reason and punched his front leg through the window. He severed tendons completely. It was awful.
Thank you!!- I will take a look
I’m hoping not to get so much into the nitty-gritty like electrolytes (mentioning them yes, but not necessarily the hours long discussion they can be lol). I’m aiming more for a Endurance 101 Prequel if that makes sense?
3 Likes
That really sounds horrible, I’m sorry for your loss.
I have emailed AERC for updated numbers, and to see if their improvement continued past 2019, despite COVID throwing a wrench in things.
Something in that article that is pretty terrifying is that 33% of fatalities were vet checked and deemed fit to continue. This is within all distance groups, not just 100 milers.
That is an old theory that was debunked in scientific tests in the run up to the Atlanta Olympics.
There they tried lots of different cooling methods, and determined that putting ice water on the big muscles was the best was of cooling them down, This was when endurance day still had 4 phases, and they wer cooling them down between phases. The results showed that the colder the water the better, and there were no muscle problems…
My suspicion is that, because endurance day in Eventing is mostly a high speed event, the heat is concentrated in the most active muscles. On the other hand, competitive Endurance is at a lower speed, for a much longer time, so the issue is more core temperature than muscle temperature.
But that is just my guess. I was hoping someone with Endurance experience could tell me if my guess is correct or not.
WRT Stagg- Kaz is a longtime work colleage and friend. He hired me for my first permament job in 1979, and we were still working together when I retired in 2020. (At a different company, and there were a few years in between when we were working at different places.) Kaz and Stagg (and Cheryl I think) were students together at Brooklyn Poly, and remained close. They used to go on vacation (a trip around Europe, a trip to China, etc.) together.
Kaz doesn’t know a lot about horses, except what he learned from me, and from my giving riding lessons/ horse rides to hi then 6 year old niece.
Any way, Stagg and Cheryl usually crewed for each other, but this time they were both competing, so they asked Kaz (who lived in Virginia) if he could help out (along with one of their regular crew members) and Kaz asked me if I wanted to join him.
If I remember correctly, both of them retired before completing the ride, but were otherwise content with how things went.
1 Like
You realize that 1,000 100-mile starters likely represents the total number of competitors across approximately 2 years of competitions, right? It’s not a large sport. So perhaps one fatality annually. The AERC magazine publishes fatality reports for every incident. As noted in the article you linked, reported fatalities are most commonly gastrointestinal events, e.g., colic related. And of the reports I’ve read, the most recent have been colic’s that started while trailering home. All that I can share are these anecdotes, because the fatalities are so incredibly uncommon.
Of course any fatality is devastating to the rider, the vets, ride managers, the sport. But to me, the very low numbers you posted are a testament to the rigorous vet procedures and intense focus on conditioning at the heart of AERC sanctioned rides.
4 Likes
It has the numbers and time periods right there in the article.
It doesn’t change the per 1000 fatality statistic. Again - I think endurance sounds awesome, up to the 50 mile mark. After that, it becomes far more/too dangerous to be doing, when it’s exclusively for human glory. I feel the exact same way about every other “extreme” horse sport. It’s fine and fun, to a point. Then it becomes a glorified dick measuring contest, and not in the best interest of the animal - in fact, it’s a flat-out hazard to them.
“Between 2002-2018, there were 335,456 starts at AERC-sanctioned events, with 127 fatalities.”
I’m not commenting on this again, as it’s hijacking @tabula_rashah thread (though she stuck her claws in first, I will be the one to digress). Endurance for beginners has nothing to do with 100 milers - and 100 milers are not looking at the best interests of their horses.
1 Like
I’m not talking full on muscle cramps from cold but effect the looseness of muscles in a horse that needs to continue working. Like a pitcher keeping his arm warm in baseball. I do use full on water everywhere on my heavily muscled guys and I put ice in my water once the temps and humidity get up. But also been out there running an ultra and had to cross water cold and deep enough that it did make my calves ache 
The first time I rode OD, Stagg and a couple of other riders hosted a just hang out and ask been there done that riders and vets whatever questions you had. It was one of the most informative 2 hours of endurance/ horsemanship education ever.
Correct, the article also stated that overall, 4% of starters during that time period were 100 milers, meaning on average between 700-800 per year during the study period; that proportion has been declining over time as the demands of conditioning are harder to meet in our new world of work expectations.
People reading this thread and interested in the sport, the best way to see for yourself is to get involved as a volunteer, especially as a vet scribe. See how 100 milers are assessed as the day goes on and how any question about the horse’s condition always errs on the side of what’s best for the horse, not the ego obsessed big dickers apparently trying to kill their horses for glory 
The sweetest moment I saw this past weekend crewing for a 100 miler was the rider giving the horse a giant hug after the vet check at the final hold, telling the horse how awesome he was to have come so far so well, and how great it would be to finish those last 12 miles together.
And as someone who will never do 100 miles, I am grateful to still share the same trail while I do my intros and LDs, which is all I have time to condition for. There are many entry points to this sport, but they all have the same foundation-to finish is to win, with a sound horse a must.
1 Like
This. My friends and I did competitive trail riding and I met a bunch of endurance riders.
My question is how do you personally get in shape for endurance rides? Most of the endurance riders I’ve known or run into are hardcore in shape. My farrier who does endurance rides used to run. That said, these are endurance riders who ride 100 mile rides, which is not something I could conceive of ever doing.
2 Likes
Another good question-
I feel like yes, it does involve some level of rider fitness as you need to be able to stay balanced enough over varied terrain to not make your horse sore etc. Also there’s things like being able to run enough to trot your horse for the vet (although crew or whoever you can talk into it lol can do this for you)
Personally my fitness used to be not so great and by the end of my ride I’d be exhausted and sore but over the last few years I’ve started trail running and I work with a strength trainer a couple times a week- there is a huge difference in how much easier rides are
2 Likes
I want to know the super detailed stuff. Like what do you do for chafing.
All the uses for chapstick.
Electrolytes for both horse and human and the timing of using them.
Carrying a sponge on a string.
Wearing a backpack with water in it, or carrying water on your saddle.
Using hoof hardener products even if you use boots/shoes.
Basic human training schedule for fitness.
And then simple stuff, like how to you count your horses heartbeats, walking in to the vet check mounted or on the ground…stuff like that.
