Help me put weight on my mare (long post). Update Post #20

[MojitoMare]

I’m at my wits end with this mare. I cannot put weight on her for the life of me. I’ve been trying for what seems like forever, with little, if any, results.

Mojito is a 21 year old paint mare. But she’s always been a hard keeper, and is a picky eater. She’s been in full training and showing for the past 3 years, until last year when she bowed a tendon. She’s almost back in full work now, and I’m afraid she’s going to lose weight instead of maintain. She’s training at 3rd level dressage and was doing some light jumping, though I’ve retired her from jumping at this point.

Mojito is on full turn out for 8+ hours a day, in a paddock that does have limited grazing available. She is stalled at night. Clipped and blanketed in our mild, though wet, weather. She is seen by a vet at least twice a year, usually more (and much much more this past year.) She has her teeth done regularly and is on a vet recommended dewormer program. Also gets routine vaccinations. The vet doesn’t have a whole lot to say about her weight, other than “try not to let her lose any weight”. Mojito is not so thin that the vet is concerned, but I’m concerned and I feel like I’m failing her.

2 years ago, Mojito was treated for ulcers with several months worth of Omeprazole. She is no longer symptomatic, but I still treat her with Excel for gut health and UlcerGuard whenever we travel anywhere.

As far as how thin she is, I can see ribs, and more than just the last 2. I can try to get photos this weekend if it will help.

Here are the things I’ve tried:

Alfalfa (the only substantial gain I saw was when I added alfalfa to her diet. She’s still on alfalfa and it allows her to maintain, but not increase, her weight.)

Amplify supplement. Used for over 6 months, no gain seen.

Cool calories. Currently using, over 6 months, highest dose. No gain seen.

Corn oil. Currently using 1/2 cup twice a day. No gain seen.

Purina Enrich Plus. Currently using, 2 quarts twice daily. No gain seen.

Beet pulp. Tried it, she won’t touch it. Doesn’t like any kind of mash either.

Right now she’s getting some grass hay and some alfalfa hay. Would you put her on straight alfalfa? I haven’t done so yet because the barn charged a lot extra for more than 1 flake of alfafa a day. But we’re at a new barn now so I can put her on straight alfafa if needed.

Is her weight a sign that it might be time for her to retire? She likes having a job and is otherwise sound, but I want to do what is best for her. I also plan on talking to my vet next week, and will take any suggestions to her also.

[Palm_Beach]

To clarify, you are only feeding hay and a ration balancer and supplements? How much hay? I think you are feeding too many concentrated supplements (protein and fat) and your overall balance is way out of whack.

I always start off with unlimited hay/grass. It’s the healthiest and least expensive way to put weight on the horse. If that is not enough (I feed tbs, so it’s NEVER enough), I add Triple Crown Senior feeding at least 5 lbs a day. It’s roughage based, very digestible, has lots of good stuff like rice bran and flax and probiotics, so you get good results. And it’s balanced, so if 5 lbs is not enough, you just increase the amount. The only thing I ever add is Triple Crown 30% if they need more topline after being on TC Sr and at a good overall weight.

Balance is just as important as amounts, and in some cases, even more so. When you feed lots of different stuff, even if it’s good stuff, you risk upsetting the balance and don’t get the results you want. It’s kind of like a recipe - you need specific ingredients in specific amounts to make the whole thing taste good. A teaspoon of cinnamon is great in pumpkin pie, but just because a teaspoon is great doesn’t mean a half cup is greater. It’s the combination of everything working together that makes the end result what you want.

In summary, try to keep the total number of different things you feed your horse to be tiny. If you are going to spend money on a quality concentrate, make sure any supplements you add work WITH that concentrate. Triple Crown is good about discussing diets and answering questions, and so should any other premium brand that you may prefer.

[MojitoMare]

Thank you for the information, I hadn’t thought of contacting a feed company. Mojito is currently getting 2 flakes of grass in the AM and 1 flake of grass, 1 flake of alfalfa in the PM. Between those feedings, she’s turned out on limited grass. If i increase her hay, she just wastes it. But I can play with the grass to alfalfa ratio.

Right now, the barn provides up to 4 quarts of Enrich Plus per day per horse, anything additional I have to provide. I’m not opposed to providing my own feed or grain, though it does complicate things some.

[Buddy0227]

Enrich Plus is a ration balancer for easy keepers and meant to be fed at 1-2lbs per day. Mare needs a real feed such as TC Senior or Pro Force Fuel and much more hay.

[Posting_Trot]

I think it’s a good idea to talk to a feed company and get their take on the best combination.

You might also try adding some hay cubes, dampened somewhat to her rations. (They can also be fed as treats). Or chopped hay. Several people on COTH have said that their horses find the Standlee chopped forage almost irresistible, so that might be worth trying as well.

[DunByMistake]

This was my experience with my gelding who could not gain weight last year. He lost a drastic amount of weight after his first go round with ulcers and could not put it back on. He was on a high fat feed supplement along with a lot of hay (6 flakes grass/alfalfa mix per feed). Looked like a coat rack. In the spring he got so miserable, I decided I needed help. Worked with a nutritionist who determined he likely had some hind gut issues and started a high fat feed plan with supplements for hind gut. Took a month or 2 but he started to put weight on and we haven’t looked back. He’s continued to put weight on this winter and a significant amount of muscle which he desperately needed.

Based On your horse’s history of omeprazole use, I would guess she has some hind gut issues. IME, you won’t get weight gain until you deal with those. Succeed or Equishure are popular. I use a locally made version of Equishure. Another thing I learned from nutritionist is that it takes about 3 months for any digestive tract issues to resolve and you start to notice improvement. So give any products you try a decent amount of time before evaluating the effectiveness.

[JB]

@MojitoMare

Here are the things I’ve tried:

Alfalfa (the only substantial gain I saw was when I added alfalfa to her diet. She’s still on alfalfa and it allows her to maintain, but not increase, her weight.)

How much alfalfa and how much grass hay?

Amplify supplement. Used for over 6 months, no gain seen.

Cool calories. Currently using, over 6 months, highest dose. No gain seen.

Corn oil. Currently using 1/2 cup twice a day. No gain seen.

IME there are many horses who don’t do well on much added fat

Purina Enrich Plus. Currently using, 2 quarts twice daily. No gain seen.

That’s a ration balancer, fed at 1-3lb a day for most horses, and the 3lb is really for the biggest of them, or in the most need of nutrition - late term pregnancy, early lactation, young and fast-growing. 4 quarts is 16c. The Enrich Plus, last I knew, was the most dense of the RBs at about 2c/lb. That means you are feeding 8lb of this :eek: :eek:

That’s dangerous with the selenium in it. 8lb is over 7mg of selenium :eek: That’s toxic unless there’s a major deficiency.

Even if it was 3c/lb, that would be over 5lb, and still over 4mg Se.

You need a regular feed so you can feed appropriate amounts, and more calories. If you stick with Purina, switch to the Ultium, and aim to work up to about 6lb for starters.

Right now she’s getting some grass hay and some alfalfa hay. Would you put her on straight alfalfa? I haven’t done so yet because the barn charged a lot extra for more than 1 flake of alfafa a day. But we’re at a new barn now so I can put her on straight alfafa if needed.

I wouldn’t. It’s too unbalance in nutrients for her needs. But if she can get 20% alfalfa, that would be good. 30% would be fine.

Is her weight a sign that it might be time for her to retire? She likes having a job and is otherwise sound, but I want to do what is best for her. I also plan on talking to my vet next week, and will take any suggestions to her also.

A picture would help. Often I see people saying the horse needs weight, when they just need muscle. How easily can you feel ribs?

When she eats hay, does she EAT hay, or nibble it? How much does she eat?

You’ve treated with omeprazole, but have you ever considered hind gut issues and used sucralfate?

[S1969]

How much hay by weight? Number of flakes isn’t helpful unless we know what they weigh. E.g. if she is getting 25-30# of hay and won’t eat any more that is one issue…e.g. she is full of hay but needs concentrated feed; but if she’s getting 15# of hay and still not finishing it that’s another issue…e.g, maybe the grass hay is crappy. Or maybe there is another reason, etc. It’s hard to know without the weights.

[joiedevie99]

Since you have a history of ulcers, and a picky eater, I’d start by scoping to see if you have a problem you need to treat.

If you don’t, start by putting up a hay bag and putting 15 lbs. of hay in it twice a day. I’d also feed hay when she’s outside if the grass is poor.

Second, you need to get her off the Enrich Plus. It is meant to provide all the required nutrition with as few calories as possible for the air ferns. What you need is calories. Drop all the supplements/oils/fats/etc. and put her on a grain designed for her needs. If you are still struggling to get the recommended amount of hay in her each day, you might want to chose something like Triple Crown Senior to supplement that.

Give it at least 3 months before you try adding in anything else.

[candyappy]

I looked on Purina’s site and Enrich Plus is for feeding to get vit/ mins and not added calories. Seems like a waste to use it on a horse you are needing to put weight on.

If she eats hay in good quantity and can chew just fine can you have it available 24/7?
Alfalfa or alfalfa mix would be my choice.

I would stay away from the feeds that include forage ( like TC Senior) and feed her a good feed with the calories she needs.

[Palm_Beach]

@Buddy0227

Enrich Plus is a ration balancer for easy keepers and meant to be fed at 1-2lbs per day. Mare needs a real feed such as TC Senior or Pro Force Fuel and much more hay.

^^^This. I’m betting at 4 quarts a day, the horse is getting 4-6 lbs a day of Enrich Plus, maybe more. I’d REALLY question the barn management, doesn’t seem they know how to feed. Always read the feeding instructions. Can you put the hay in a 2-3 inch hole hay net? They waste less, and what falls to the ground is usually leafy stuff that they eat if they get tired of pulling hay out of the net.

[horsenhistory]

I have an older mare that lost weight starting this fall. I avoid feeding my horses any grain–instead I give hay cubes, beet pulp, flax seed, rice bran, and cool stance)–all of our horses thrive on this diet, but this mare started to lose weight. I ended up adding in Nutrena pro force fuel. I added in a meal of straight alf/timothy soaked hay cubes. This put some weight on. Then I substituted alfalfa hay for her timothy breakfast hay and this made a further difference. I’d tryin getting your horse on some alfalfa.

[luvmyhackney]

When is the last time your horses teeth was done, not just checked? Like a vet checked the back of her mouth for any sharp points?
Also, 4 flakes of hay isn’t much, unless they are huge flakes, you need to up that. If horse isn’t sucking down the hay, you might try soaked alfalfa cubes and see if she is able and willing to eat those to get calories.

I would add a good feed with a decent amount of calories and work up to the amount needed to maintain. I would top dress with the ration balancer ( 1-2 lbs tops) until you have maresy on a full ration of other grain, cut out the oil and supplements.

If she is still not gaining weight after you added good quality grain at the recommended amounts, more hay, had a full exam on her teeth, add Legends Omega Max. Don’t know why but it is amazing for putting that last little bit of weight on a horse. Plus they love it and suck it down.

[MojitoMare]

Thanks all. I didn’t realize she was getting too much Enrich Plus, and that is my fault. I asked the barn to increase her feed because I thought it would help. I think I’m going to take her off the oil and cool calories, decrease the Enrich Plus to the recommended amount, and then talk to my vet about what else I can do. I hope Mojito doesn’t still have ulcers but will have the vet check. Her teeth were done in the fall, and have been done at least yearly since I’ve had her, the past 4 years.

[lorilu]

WHy no standard grain feed - perhaps Purina active senior? That’s what my 30 year old is getting, along with two full scoops of alfalfa cubes soaked, quality hay, AND a ballancer from Seminole because older horses often do not absorb nutrients well. It has put weight on her in this winter - she actually lost weight this summer before I made adjustments.

[J-Lu]

She needs grain, IMO. Calories. Higher fat, so Nutrena pro force fuel or fiber, or Purina Ultium. I’d keep up with the alfalfa hay plus the grass, you can always add compressed alfalfa - high in calories, high in calcium and + ions that will help buffer stomach acid. You can increase the oil to 1 cup daily - it is a good cool calorie additive, and she needs calories. I’d not cut it out until you see weight gain. I assume she’s up to date on worming and a FEC has been done to rule out parasites.

[Milocalwinnings]

I would put her on a good grain (NOT a ration balancer) and increase her hay by a lot, if she will eat it. I may have missed it (coming off of a 12 hour night shift)- is she only getting 4 flakes of hay a day because that’s all the barn will give, or because that is all she will eat? As others stated, I would weigh the flakes out at least until you get a feel for what 15lbs feels like and feed her by weight. My initial thought was wondering why she only is getting 4 flakes a day, if she doesn’t have access to ample grass in turnout. This, combined by the fact that she is in full work, it really doesn’t sound like she is getting fed enough to sustain that. I am surprised your vet was okay with the feeding program she is on, if he was aware of it.

You mentioned reducing the Enrich Plus and taking her off of her other supplements, however, you didn’t mention trying to add in a good quality grain and/or more hay. That really needs to be in the picture at this point.

[JB]

@MojitoMare

Thanks all. I didn’t realize she was getting too much Enrich Plus, and that is my fault. I asked the barn to increase her feed because I thought it would help.

Reading labels is important.

I think I’m going to take her off the oil and cool calories, decrease the Enrich Plus to the recommended amount, and then talk to my vet about what else I can do.

Why? I mean, it can’t hurt, but why is that your first step? Why wouldn’t you choose a good quality feed - Ultium is what I suggested already) - and feed appropriate amounts of all that?

Any horse not getting enough calories from a ration balancer doesn’t get MORE of it, not beyond 2-3lb total. They move to a regular feed. That much EP is harmful, and quite possibly the reason she wasn’t gaining on that much of it.

Hopefully the hay situation at the new barn is appropriate. No straight alfalfa, but a flake or 2 each feeding would be good.

[pologirl27]

First off, sounds like you need a proper grain and not a ration balancer. Seriously, you need to talk to the barn about getting her on a different grain, or anything else will be a waste of time/money.

Here’s what helped my horse who was older, still working and hard keeping (esp in winter). One big difference is that my girl is out on grass 24/7- obviously in winter it is less nutritious.

4lbs 2x daily of a local grain that is 14% protein and 10% fat
1lb 2x daily of chopped alfalfa
4 flakes of grass hay daily ( barn wouldn’t allow more, hence alfalfa)
Probiotics
Starting on Weight Builder or powered fat (mine was called Berga fat) in about January

[MojitoMare]

Hi All! Thank you so much for the advice. I had my vet out on Wed. She agreed Mojito is looking thinner than is ideal. So we went over her diet, pulled blood for labs, did a fecal and sand test, and checked her teeth. Everything is looking good, she’s pretty healthy, pending the results of the labs.

We decided to make changes to Mojito’s diet, the vet thinks it will really help. She is going on 4 flakes of alfalfa per day (3 strand bales), plus will have a flake of grass at night with her alfalfa to keep her busy, even though she probably won’t eat it. We’ll see. We’re also reducing the amount of ration balancer she gets, and adding in some Nutrena Pro Force Fuel (as long as she’ll eat it. We’ll see! :))

Vet says the oil is a good idea, so we’ll keep that, but we’re going to get rid of the cool calories. It wasn’t doing anything anyway. Hopefully these changes will all help and the labs come back ok. I’ll keep you all posted if anyone is interested.