Help me reset my feline/canine alarm clock to a more reasonable hour...

[eventer_mi]

Help, please help if you can. I’m not getting any sleep this way, and school starts next week (I’m a teacher) and cannot afford to be cranky and losing sleep like this.

Hubby is in the military, so often it’s just me. I have two cats, and two dogs, all adults. Dogs are 6 and 9 years old, Shelties, with teeny bladders apparently.

This is how my night/morning goes - let dogs out at 11 pm for a last pee break. Lock cats out of bedroom and lock dogs in. Sleep until howling starts at 3 am. Let dogs out AGAIN. Feed cats because otherwise they bolt into the bedroom and cannot be flushed from their hiding space under the bed, and then proceed to wail all night long for attention. Between 5-6 am, dogs start wanting their breakfast. I am wide awake by this point and have gotten approximately 5-6 hours of sleep. I need 8 to function like a normal human being. I have wicked insomnia and don’t sleep well anyway, so all this getting up and down is killing any rest I do get.

I have tried locking cats into the garage (where we have a reinforced screen door) so that I can keep the dog door open to the backyard so that the pups can let themselves out. That worked, oh, ONCE. Cats caught on to me and refused to be herded into the garage, even with yummies. They see me going into the garage at “that time” and bolt. I’ve tried ignoring dogs howling, but when I do get up, I wake up to several messes in the house - apparently they can’t hold their bladders for more than 4-5 hours at a time.

How on earth do I convince the dogs to get everything out of their system at 11 so that I can lock them in with me and actually get some SLEEP? Yes, they are active during the day - they go to doggie day care and wipe themselves out in the heat by running around chasing each other. I also play with cats before bedtime, to exhaust them. Water is withheld after bedtime, but then I get whining because the dogs are thirsty.

This has been going on for about 6 years and I’VE HAD ENOUGH. I’m soooo tempted to just open the doggie door and let them monitor themselves, but that resulted in two dead cats when they had free access to the outside, and I will NEVER do that again.

Do they make some kind of doggie door that is activated by a transmitter on their collar? So that only dogs can go out, but cats can’t? My cats are pretty respectful of the dogs so they probably wouldn’t run out between the dogs’ feet to get out the door, but you never know. Help! Thanks for any and all advice, even if you just commiserate with me or tell me that you will never own cats or dogs for that very reason.

[Blinkers_On]

Can cats be crate trained???
And to the dogs… ignore, ignore ignore… unless their bowels are going to be let loose on your floor… even then a crate removes your floor…
IME and I am an extreme creature of habit… dogs do what you consistantly allow. You let them get you up at three, they WILL get you up at three.

My dogs are clever. They know I have three alarms which start at 3:30 am. And I di hit snooze…once. They ALL get up when I do. Two are up immediately and the two who sleep under the covers are a bit slower…
Two are CLEAR morning dogs and two aren’t. Two go out and do their thing and come in an are wrestling, play bowing fools. The other two are not.
Monday is the only day on which my routine varies. They get it and let me sleep in orm go to the barn with them in the truck and go back to bed on the return home.
They are very aware of my routine and follow it…

[Appsolute]

There are many experts on here, I am sure they will also chime in.

But let me say, YES enough is enough! I struggle sometimes with my pets, and the need to SLEEP.

For me, locking my small dog in the bedroom with us at night, and locking the cats out works. My dog can hold it for a LONG time, so no problems there. I have a feeling your dogs could learn to hold it as well. Sounds like they have gotten into a HABBIT of going at 3 AM, but I do not think that they HAVE TO go at 3 am.

I would crate them at night. They are going to be less likely to soil their own bed, and hopefully then can learn to hold it, and let you sleep through the night.

As for the cats… I think cats CAN be trained, mine are pretty well trained (come when called, no bite or scratch), but it sounds like the cats wouldn’t be a problem if the dogs weren’t getting you up in the middle of the night.

My dog does just fine all night with no water or potty break (just like I do). As has every dog I have ever owned (with the exception of the elderly!).

The dogs have trained you with all of the whining. Sounds like they might need to be created in another room.

It is going to take some work, and the dogs will protest a change to their routine, but clearly the routine needs to change!

[onelanerode]

I guess I’m a meanie, but when our kitten found us and we realized she was up for playing, butt scooties and general craziness in the wee hours of the morning, the spare bedroom with the elliptical in it became hers. She’s pretty good about going in of her own accord, because she gets fed at night and I usually give her a few stinky fish treats. But once in a while she’ll get a wild hair and go tearing off through the house, and I walk her down, much like you would with a horse who isn’t interested in being caught. :lol: She scooched herself under the hall table a few times, and I reached under and got her, gently, and escorted her, protesting, upstairs to her room. After that her wild hair moments were pretty short-lived. She’s got a cat tree, a cat condo and four beds in that room, so plenty to choose from and lots of toys as well.

The dogs, if they decide it’s time to get up and I don’t agree, get told firmly: “Go lay down!” That is a confirmed command for both of them and they know exactly what it means; it’s used when DH and I are eating, when guests are here, or anytime the neighbor kids are out playing in the street and the dogs get fussy. Last call is usually between 10 p.m. and midnight, and I am up around 5:45 on weekdays and 8 or 9 on weekends.

I’m unfortunately an 8-hours-a-night person too, so I don’t take kindly to being woken up for no good reason. :no:

[arabiansrock]

yes there are doggie doors with transmitters. I personally would do that. Or you can try what we did as we also have 2 cats. We built a 10X10 dog run right outside the doggie door with chain link fence and covered it with an ezup shelter. Now the cats can go out and get some sun and fresh air, and dogs can go do their business in the middle of the night. Knock on wood, cats have not tried to climb the fence and we have had it three years now.

[Big_Grey_hunter]

If you want the cats in the garage so dogs can take themselves out, it’s possible to teach kitties how to go in the garage. Start feeding cats in the garage and ONLY in the garage, at scheduled meal times. Then feed dinner right when you go to bed, in the garage. If they don’t go in, they don’t get dinner. And no 3AM snack. If they get hungry, they will start going in to the garage at night. For a special incentive, hide some smelly treats or offer a bit of tuna until they get used to the routine. Be sure to make it a good place, with cat beds and litter boxes apart from each other.

As for the dogs, until you can get the cats in the garage, never get up when they start howling. It will be some sleepless nights, but IGNORE the howling. No speaking to them or any acknowledgment. Depending on what you want (keep it consistent), either wait until they give you at least a minute of quiet, then let them out or pick a time and don’t get up until then. Maybe start at 3:30, then 4:00, then 4:30 to teach them to hold their bladder. Crating would help, and no water after 10.

[equinelerium]

I’ve got zero experience with cats, so I’ll stick with the doggies. But if I were in your shoes, the dogs would be spending some nights in crates. Since this has been going on for 6 years, they are in a firmly established habit and its probably going to take some doing to train them out of it.

I noticed you say that if you don’t take them out at 3 am you wake up to messes. Unless there are medical issues, they should easily be able to make it through the whole night. Do they have accidents any other times, or just at night? Is it possible that they play really hard and then down tons of water before bed time? I’m trying to think of any reason for the accidents.

Either way, I’d start with crates at night, then work on the “lay down” or “go to your bed” command like onelaneroad mentioned. Then start a routine where at night, each dog goes to his/her “bed” area and goes to sleep. Anybody who gets up at 3 am gets the “go lay down” command. Hopefully that will help you reset the dogie alarm clock. Good luck!

[Foxtrot_s]

I so hear you — one of ours is on Prednisone for his itches and drinks tons of water so at 3:00 am he is barking to be let out. Then he decides he wants to wander about and take his own sweet time coming in and I’m out there whispering for him to come in treat in hand…he is a Bull Terrier and a bit wooden headed, dear boy.

Sorry - no advice, though.

[bort84]

Earplugs + ignore = success! (Maybe, haha.)

I have a wacky schedule sometimes, so my pets have always just had to adapt. My cats don’t wake me up for food and neither does the dog. I try to keep on a semi regular schedule, but it may a little earlier or later depending on the day.

What I have found useful when needing to ignore loud pets (roomie had a cat for awhile that used to hooooowl at night, and we had a neighbor who kept her dogs outside all day and night, so they were very barky) are earplugs. I can still wake up to an alarm with them in, but you don’t hear the annoying noises while you’re sleeping. I used them constantly in college while I was still living in a dorm because my sleep schedule was different than my roommate’s.

Do your dogs really need to go out at every four hours? I bet they could learn to hold it at night unless there are medical issues. You could use a crate if you want to feel a little safer there won’t be accidents. Or you can try gradually extending the time between when they go out and limiting their water before bed. If they regularly hold it throughout the day for more than 4 hours, they have probably just gotten into the habit at night and don’t actually need to go.

Or, there are definitely dog doors that can only be activated by a certain collar. So if your cats aren’t wearing one, they can’t open it. But they might figure out how to follow one of the dogs out. I haven’t personally used one before, so I’m not sure how cat safe they are.

With the cats, I would try to tire them out before bed with lots of play time. You could also hide some treats throughout the house for night time hunting. Then pop those ear plugs in and ignore ignore ignore.

[Kyzteke]

Boy, these guys really have you trained!

My suggestions: do not feed cats AT ALL for a day (they will live, trust me). Then start feeding them at night in the garage just before you go to bed. That will be their main meal. The ones that follow you in get food. The ones that don’t get locked out and no food.

Maybe some toys & such in the garage – cat nip, kitty condo, etc. to keep them occupied.

Dogs: lift up water at 8pm. Use doggie door. Ignore. Bust them for accidents and make sure they know to use the doggie door.

This will take time, because, as another poster had noted, it’s been going on for a while.

But I’m betting in a month or so you’ll be sleeping.

[531]

Dogs go in crates, cats go in garage, ear plugs go in your ears.

Work everyone up to it of course, and the other posters have given you great ideas for those steps.

I used to have a job where not getting enough sleep put me and others in danger, so I learned to draw the line, you can too. Be firm, and be fair, to them and to yourself.

[AlmostDun]

I laid down the law pretty early with my cats.
First, nobody gets breakfast until after I get out of the shower. This understanding allowed me to sleep until the alarm went off. The cats might try to join me in the shower, but they never tried to get me out of bed to feed them.
Second, cats which jump on me in the middle of the night get flying lessons. It’s not that I mean to hurl the cat across the room, but I do startle violently when woken unexpectedly.

I also made a few modifications to the bedroom which helps keep things quieter. I have a solid barrier under the bed, so cats can’t get underneath where I can’t reach them. They’ve got about six inches between the dust ruffle and the barrier, which gives them a place to play and hide. They just can’t get out of reach. Additionally, I put a pet door in the bedroom door. Back when the cats were young demons I would set the latch so that the animals in the bedroom could leave but not return. It took about a month of listening to cats banging on the outside of the pet door before they finally resigned themselves to the idea that they really couldn’t come back in through it. A one way pet door in your bedroom door might help with the dog situation too. The dog would learn that it had the option of going out if it really needs to. However, exercising this option means exile from the pack for the rest of the night.

[eventer_mi]

Everybody has great suggestions, here. And y’all are absolutely correct - they have me trained. I think the problem here is my husband, who’s a huge softie and doesn’t enforce my rules. Of course, he leaves and I’m left with the mess he’s created.

It sounds like crating the pups at night is the best bet. I’d ignore them, but that results in messes to clean up in the morning. I love the idea of a pet run, but I live on post and they don’t allow stuctures like that.

Thanks again!