Help me simplify my horse's Feeding routine...

[JB]

It’s hard to tell from those pictures just how much of that is edible. The taller spots are obviously not getting eaten, there are obviously some weeds, etc. How big is the paddock, exactly? Or roughly

I’d say that grass isn’t insignificant, but certainly not lush enough for what he needs. The only “problem” I see with getting him hay out there is he probably thinks the grass is a lot better, even if he’s got to work more for less, so getting him to eat hay there may be an issue. Maybe not.

I still think you need to get him in a higher calorie/lb feed and get his daytime calories as dense as possible.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8257372]
It’s hard to tell from those pictures just how much of that is edible. The taller spots are obviously not getting eaten, there are obviously some weeds, etc. How big is the paddock, exactly? Or roughly

I’d say that grass isn’t insignificant, but certainly not lush enough for what he needs. The only “problem” I see with getting him hay out there is he probably thinks the grass is a lot better, even if he’s got to work more for less, so getting him to eat hay there may be an issue. Maybe not.

I still think you need to get him in a higher calorie/lb feed and get his daytime calories as dense as possible.[/QUOTE]

Tell me if THIS helps at all. His paddock is the red boxed one. I don’t do estimates/measurements well AT ALL even eyeballing, I’m totally clueless. I’m the girl that if you ask me what I think 6" is, I’ll either show you 3" or 12"…clueless at guestimates. And yes! There are some weeds out there, in the long parts. It’s been a battle this year, property management has been slacking this summer.

I’m going to have to see if I can’t get another paddock buddy, or go private t.o. to provide him with hay. He has the option to roam free on the property (so basically anywhere within that picture, minus the paddocks of course) but I feel like his exposure to injury is too great. He’s kept in a paddock in a specific place because he’s a middle pecking order horse, but has a strong personality. We have a lot of strong personalities out there, the type that play you bite me I bite you. They have a lot of fun, and it’s no harm, but really it is, because neither of the strong personalities know when to stop, so they come in with bites. No good for me.

I’ll have to see what I can work out with BO to get hay out there. You’re right he may or may not have interest in it since grass is oh so good. But when its completely overgrazed come winter, he’ll be happy to have it.

I think I’ll just have to play around with the senior feed a bit…slowly cut back the fiber force and replace with the senior, see how his belly does/weight does. I can’t imagine there’s anything magic in the fiber force that’s keeping him all together…and obviously that isn’t the source of his weight gain.

[JB]

OH definitely he’ll need hay out there in the Winter.

The pic helps may be a little - I’ll guess it’s maybe an acre or so, possibly 2. Pretty good sized for 2 horses for 12 hours a day, but even that size definitely “shrinks” when weeds and taller unpalatable spots start taking over.

[gumtree]

Unless I missed it somewhere. IMO one of the most important bits of information that was not included.

What are you doing with him? What’s his work load/training on a daily bases? Are talking about a pasture pet, occasional trail rider or a competition horse? If so what discipline?

What is his personality like? Easy going or always on “guard”?

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8257564]
Unless I missed it somewhere. IMO one of the most important bits of information that was not included.

What are you doing with him? What’s his work load/training on a daily bases? Are talking about a pasture pet, occasional trail rider or a competition horse? If so what discipline?

What is his personality like? Easy going or always on “guard”?[/QUOTE]

He’s the type that is ridden between 2 and 5 times a week, depending on weather. So around 2-5 hours tops I’d say a week of work. He’s a green OTTB just retired in February so we’re going slow. He’s got (usually) biweekly hour long lessons where we hone in on collection work and jump work, probably his hardest workouts. I want to feed him as if he’s a horse in moderate work, because he obviously doesn’t hold weight as easily as some other horses might.

He’s got a great, hilarious, easy going, nothing bothers me personality. The only two real things that bother him are grooming, which is a combination of a learned habit from rough brushing on the track, ulcers, and his current hind gut problems. The second is when you really get into him going to the right, he’s easily frustrated and resistant, another thing we bring back to the hind gut problem. Never on guard, nothing ever phases him. He’s a very happy guy.

He was treated and scoped clean for Ulcers prior to my purchasing him. He does not currently suffer from ulcers in his stomach. His main targeted area of issue is the hind gut/colon.

[One_Two_Three]

Here’s a spin off question from my original… So I’ve been thinking it over more and more, and really it makes sense to at least try the senior feed over a month’s span as his Fiber Force runs out.

If I put two popular in my area senior feeds side by side, which would you pick?

HERE they are, side by side. I blacked out the names (though if you try real hard you can still see them) so that there’s really no brand biased at first.

Please keep in mind the horse’s current diet. The only big change would be the removal of beep & wholegain, and switching of the FiberForce to a senior. For reference, HERE is the list for FiberForce amounts and ingredients.

I’m not overly concerned about the reduction in protein and fiber since he gets alf pellets and I can also up those if needed

[JB]

I’d choose the one on the right for a few reasons:

• a bit more protein
• true forage-based
• pre/probiotics
• distillers grains instead of whole grains
• kelp for a bit more iodine

I am nearly certain I know which product the 2nd one is, but I based the above on the ingredients first, it was only when I saw the NSC that I was tipped off. So, my choice is not based on knowing the product

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8259105]
I’d choose the one on the right for a few reasons:

• a bit more protein
• true forage-based
• pre/probiotics
• distillers grains instead of whole grains
• kelp for a bit more iodine

I am nearly certain I know which product the 2nd one is, but I based the above on the ingredients first, it was only when I saw the NSC that I was tipped off. So, my choice is not based on knowing the product ;)[/QUOTE]

I was fairly certain people as yourself who are very familiar with the right side brand in the course of nutritional discussions would probably figure out which one it is!
They’re essentially the same price at the feed store they come from, and I have positives with both companies so I wanted reasons why one was better than the other.

Thanks JB!

[JB]

I’d be interested in which feed the left one is, just for curiosity. I don’t find it a bad feed, and was actually a little surprised to find it only 12% NSC with the grains in it, but, they are far enough down the list that it’s not unthinkable in the least. I wouldn’t turn anyone away from it. I have an idea of what it might be, but without going to the product and looking for sure, I’m not positive.

I just feel for this particular situation, the one on the right is the better choice for the reasons I listed.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8259158]
I’d be interested in which feed the left one is, just for curiosity. I don’t find it a bad feed, and was actually a little surprised to find it only 12% NSC with the grains in it, but, they are far enough down the list that it’s not unthinkable in the least. I wouldn’t turn anyone away from it. I have an idea of what it might be, but without going to the product and looking for sure, I’m not positive.

I just feel for this particular situation, the one on the right is the better choice for the reasons I listed.[/QUOTE]

The one on the left is the Seminole Wellness Senior Mix…the one I was thinking of switching or supplementing with. I hate to out my brands right away…but oh heck I got a good answer from you so why not. Plus maybe people won’t read ahead before they decide for themselves. The one on the right is Triple Crown Senior.

I was surprised to see oats & barley with that little NSC as well! The feed smells and looks rich, and my guy absolutely is attracted to it more than the FiberForce, which has appetite stimulating scents in it (it makes ME hungry). I’m thinking there’s likely nothing magical in the FF keeping his stomach & hindgut in line, so I’m hoping a very very slow switch over to either of the feeds will yield me positive results instead of the mess I got myself into last time I tried to switch. I’ll admit I haven’t ever seen Triple Crown Senior in person, but I assume with a lot of similar ingredients that it’s attractive to the picky ones.

[JB]

I knew it! The context of this thread helped though - didn’t just know it off the top of my head LOL

TC Sr is a textured feed that looks and smells like it should be a high NSC sweet feed. My oldest guy (late 20’s at least) isn’t the pickiest eater, but he’s also not gung-ho about something just because it’s in his feed bucket, absolutely inhales TC Sr.

And truly? If you find your guy doesn’t particularly like the TC, there’s no reason not to do the Seminole.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8259318]
I knew it! The context of this thread helped though - didn’t just know it off the top of my head LOL

TC Sr is a textured feed that looks and smells like it should be a high NSC sweet feed. My oldest guy (late 20’s at least) isn’t the pickiest eater, but he’s also not gung-ho about something just because it’s in his feed bucket, absolutely inhales TC Sr.

And truly? If you find your guy doesn’t particularly like the TC, there’s no reason not to do the Seminole.[/QUOTE]

Your old guy sounds like my (young?) guy. He doesn’t despise anything (except maybe beep) but he DOES shuffle his fiberforce around because it has a mix of alfalfa stems and pellets and kibble lookin stuff and he’d rather eat those than the alf. Inhales alfalfa pellets. The couple times he gets an extra helping of alf pellets I’ve been putting half a quart of the wellness senior mix in with them and he’s been inhaling that (seminole is the barn’s staple brand so I had access to it). So if it’s anything like the seminole wellness sweet sticky goodness (hey! supplements will stick better!) then I’ll bet he enjoys it. He HATED Perform Safe…those boring pellets man…if it’s not alfalfa and nothing else, forget it!

[IPEsq]

I recognized the one on the right b/c I feed it. So obviously, it would be my choice.

[One_Two_Three]

My BO probably thinks I am insane.
My horse has this big elaborate feeding regiment, and every month it seems I change my mind about something. Two months ago I swapped him back to FF. Last month I added beep. This month I want to remove the FF & wholegain and Beep and feed Senior. Right after I got done telling her last week that I wanted to wait to change anything until the Succeed trial was over. Now I’ve changed my mind again because I think him being on Succeed will help with the transition.

YIKES!

Can you see why I’m trying to make this simple on her? I do have another question. I’m too lazy to go back up and figure out who mentioned it…but someone mentioned that maybe I should remove the UGard from his diet.
It’s $28 for a 4lb bucket, which lasts approximately 2 months because he eats 1 scoop a day, not two.

How much is 28g of “Kaolin, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Hydroxide, Glycine, Zinc Oxide, Diatomaceous Earth, Methylcellulose, Silicon Dioxide, Dried Apple Pectin Pulp, Aloe Vera Gel, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), Iron Oxide, Natural and artificial flavors” really helping his stomach, considering as they also mentioned, the alfalfa pellets and hay he receives? It’s literally like $14 a month so I’m not too worried, but when his Succeed runs out, I’m putting him on the maintenance dose of Smart Digest Ultra. I would love to just do the SmartGI (stomach and hindgut help) but it contains Smart Digest, not the Ultra. The ultra is the one with similar ingredients to Succeed, hence why I’d like to keep him on that one.

Anyways, just a pondering thought. Not removing the Actiflex…but starting to reconsider removing UGard. His old owner was adamant about keeping him on it…but at half dose…what does it REALLY do?

[IPEsq]

I mentioned removing the U-Gard. It’s basically a calcium supplement with some magnesium. And you are feeding only 1/2 the dose. If he’s getting calcium during mealtime from alfalfa, then I don’t see a need for U-Gard. The idea is that calcium helps buffer the stomach to protect against ulceration. I think you’d be better off giving more alfalfa around concentrate meal times (pellets and/or more mix hay) and maybe some aloe vera juice. The calcium in the alfalfa buffers the stomach and you also have the benefit of having some real roughage in there as well.

I realize it’s not expensive but I would personally rather put that $14 towards the budget for one of the other things you are feeding. Long stem alfalfa (from your hay) also will benefit his hind gut.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8259652]
I mentioned removing the U-Gard. It’s basically a calcium supplement with some magnesium. And you are feeding only 1/2 the dose. If he’s getting calcium during mealtime from alfalfa, then I don’t see a need for U-Gard. The idea is that calcium helps buffer the stomach to protect against ulceration. I think you’d be better off giving more alfalfa around concentrate meal times (pellets and/or more mix hay) and maybe some aloe vera juice. The calcium in the alfalfa buffers the stomach and you also have the benefit of having some real roughage in there as well.

I realize it’s not expensive but I would personally rather put that $14 towards the budget for one of the other things you are feeding. Long stem alfalfa (from your hay) also will benefit his hind gut.[/QUOTE]

That makes sense. I knew that the UGard was essentially a calcium supplement with some fancy ‘soothers’ mixed in…but didn’t know if the amount was substantial enough to make a difference between alf pellets and it. I can buy 2 bags of alf pellets for the cost of a bucket of UGard, so that’s something to consider. Knock on wood, most of his troubles have always been with the hind gut. When he retired end of February, he had 30 days of GG and a clean scope at the end just before I got him. Not sure if he ever had them, but being an OTTB we assume. Old owner was adamant that I keep him on UGard, but as you’ve mentioned with the amounts of calcium he receives from Alf, (plus more alf if I remove the Ugard), and him only getting 1 scoop as it is right now, I bet you’re probably right that it’s not making much a difference to him. Something to really think about I guess…it really shouldn’t be hard to feed a horse. Especially this one, considering he has the build to really be fat…when he was on the track he was one of the few TBs that was thick’ums with no ribs.

Lots to think about. EEK:(