Help me understand: so many horses' mouth opens while riding

[mydogs]

I’ve been paying more attention to this lately, but I’ve seen many upper level riders and horses in competition this year where the horse is opening their mouth while being ridden. I’ve also seen lots of photos on Facebook where the horse’s mouth is open.

I was always under the impression that an open mouth meant the horse was either in pain or resisting the bit. But, these horses are being ridden and trained by qualified trainers.

By no means am I criticizing them. I was hoping someone could clarify things for me since maybe I am missing something or haven’t been taught something.

Is the open mouth in line with the horse chewing the bit and accepting it?

[Scribbler]

If you can’t tell the difference yourself between a horse relaxed on the bit and a horse ridden on such tight contact that the jaw is forced open, link to some photos in the public domain that show what you mean.

[Abbie.S]

A horse with his mouth open/gaped is braced to some degree, somewhere, either mentally, physical or (usually) both. It doesn’t necessarily mean “pain”: it could mean confusion, discomfort, anxiety, fear…it can be a whole lot of things. Either way, it does always come back to a brace, somewhere.

A horse “chewing the bit” rarely actually OPEN their mouths. Watch a horse eat, and you will see this. Instead, their jaws slide back and forth across one another.

Someone being a trainer or high level competitor does not necessarily mean they are a quality horseperson or rider. It does not necessarily mean they do not use forceful practices in their horsemanship. There are plenty of upper level riders and trainers whom I have zero respect. There are plenty that I do. But do not mistake many high test scores or competition success to = quality.

The problem with photos is that they only show a moment in time. It would be very difficult to look at the photo and judge if the moment is the horse struggling and the rider in the process of helping the horse get it fixed, or if the rider is actually causing the horse to brace.

As an aside, it does not take a lot of “force” in the contact to cause a horse to brace his jaw in a way that would make him want to open his mouth. Think about the tissues you’re affecting inside the horse’s mouth when tension is on the reins and you can imagine it takes a lot less than one would think.

[Mondo]

Be careful, OP. I posted a picture of what you describe about a year ago and got flamed for saying that it had no place on a calendar.

[thecolorcoal]

It is easy to see the difference between a gaping mouth and chewing on the bit. I believe OP is talking about the former, not the latter. I see it too. Just last night, watching FEITV, i saw several horses in a competition gaping at the mouth and was greatly displeased they did not receive a lower score than they did…

Usually discomfort, pain, or fear, as Abbie S said. IMO no good riding should result in this…

[Glyphica]

I’ll start off by saying that this is my interpretation of what I’ve seen “behind the scenes” of a few moderately BNT (consistently performing fairly well in CDIs, but not necessarily “household names.” All of the ones I know personally all have several horses in the barn with “mouth issues.” (Never rider/training issues…It’s always the horses’ issues which irritates me.)

The higher show scores require total control and perfection. Several riders achieve this with “rougher” means than is, in my humble opinion, correct or fair to the horse. So the contact tends to get rather aggressive, consequently the horse protests, is fought down, and eventually the only “out” left is gaping mouths, gnashing teeth, etc. The scores are still quite good because in spite of the obvious tension in the front, the rest of the components are exemplary with no technical mistakes.

I love dressage, and I don’t want to be one of those “klassikal” people, but I do think that a lot of the very top of the sport is quite ugly, when you really get to see the true meat of the training. A lot of the BNTs also can have extreme egos when it comes to their performance (so the horse can become an enemy of their success instead of a partner), even when they come off as quite lovely and demure in person.

[rosegold]

I agree that it’s ugly and ought to be marked down. I don’t know about UL horses and riders, but in the past year I’ve personally ridden two at the lower levels who gaped/chomped (not chewed, chomped) every ride, regardless of what my hands were doing. The rest of the tack was fitted well, but it turned out that both horses needed bit changes, and it took lots of trial and error to find the right bits. The one who’s still with me is now very happy in his current bit, though he still will gape or chomp when he’s distracted or anxious. I think at the lower levels, where the rider’s hands are good, a lot of ugly mouth behavior may be due to pain or discomfort regarding the equipment (bit, saddle, girth, etc.) which may be financially difficult for a LL rider to replace over and over again until the right combo is found. That, or anxiety, which is harder to cure. I can’t imagine financial troubles preventing an UL rider from finding well-fitted tack, though. What are sponsorships for? At those levels, there’s no excuse.

[thecolorcoal]

I excuse the LL riders who have this issue with their horses. I feel like a lot of them are still learning and, as rosegold said, sometimes the right bit combination is not easy to get to (going through this right now with my mare who requires a $130 bit i can’t afford right now…) but UL riders? I expect more from them… It upsets me to no end that this is a continuing problem and these “rough, aggressive training styles” are still scored high, especially when compared to a horse going correctly and traditionally. It’s mind baffling!!!

Tangent…

[mydogs]

@Mondo

Be careful, OP. I posted a picture of what you describe about a year ago and got flamed for saying that it had no place on a calendar.

Thanks. I have no plans for posting pictures as I have no desire to throw any rider under the bus. I’ve seen this act in videos and in person, so I know the difference between a moment in time and some thing that happens more than once for more than a second.

[mydogs]

@Scribbler

If you can’t tell the difference yourself between a horse relaxed on the bit and a horse ridden on such tight contact that the jaw is forced open, link to some photos in the public domain that show what you mean.

Sorry, I have no desire to bad mouth any specific rider on the Internet. I’m not bashing the riders but trying to figure out if there was something that I wasn’t aware of that may have been the reason for this common occurrence I have seen, not just in photos but at shows I’ve attended at.

[bathsheba8542]

I saw a ‘brag’ picture a few months ago where the horse’s mouth was open so wide you could see almost the full tongue and the entire bit. It does feel some days like we moving away from an understanding of correct riding.

[Foxtrot_s]

Hence the tight nosebands.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Abbie.S

Someone being a trainer or high level competitor does not necessarily mean they are a quality horseperson or rider. It does not necessarily mean they do not use forceful practices in their horsemanship. There are plenty of upper level riders and trainers whom I have zero respect. There are plenty that I do. But do not mistake many high test scores or competition success to = quality.

I completely agree. It was a disappointing realization for me. Early in my dressage endeavors I naively thought that looking up centerline scores would delineate the “good” from the “bad”. Over time I have found some of these riders that I initially admired due to their scores engaged in practices completely counter to everything I believe to be correct, empathetic, and ethical.

[MysticOakRanch]

I have to say, finding the right bit can be a financial adventure! I have a “project pony”, and have spent more on bits for him then I paid for the pony himself! Sometimes it is a bitting issue - and sometimes it is a rough hands issue, or a dental issue, or a saddle fit issue, or a neck issue (which is showing up in the mouth) and sometimes it is just a horse that has contact issues, period. No matter what you do. Hard to say.

Finding the right SIZE (length and diameter) as well as right shape is a huge project. And sometimes the horse/pony goes better in something you might not THINK would make them happy. My guy is happiest in a HEAVY single link NovoContact eggbutt - I look at it and think it is too big in diameter, too heavy, but he says he likes it far more then any of the other 2 dozen bits we’ve tried - bought, owned, and borrowed.

Open mouths are suppose to be marked down. My experience (fwiw) as both a scribe and a competitor, is when the judges notice it (sometimes there is just too much to look at to see that specific issue) it IS considered in the score. Something that might be an 8 becomes a 7. A tongue out is a bigger issue then an open mouth - and that is generally a loss of 2 points for every movement that it is seen. It isn’t always in the comment section, but may be in the overall comments, or in the Submission score too. Judges can’t comment on EVERYTHING in the movement comment section - it would kill off their scribes! But I think many do see it and consider it in the score.

[Scribbler]

If you have a tight crank and flash the horse can’t open his mouth, so that effectively solves the problem.

[J-Lu]

@Scribbler

If you have a tight crank and flash the horse can’t open his mouth, so that effectively solves the problem.

Not really. Tension will come out elsewhere.

[skydy]

@J-Lu

Not really. Tension will come out elsewhere.

I would guess that Scribbler is referencing the open mouth “problem” and what some folks do to “solve” it.