Help me with some groundwork issues

[The_Tin_Man]

It is winter. I have an indoor. No shows or events for a few months. Nothing to distract me from reaching this goal with my horse. Months of long winter and hours of darkness . . . no distractions.

Please.

Please.

Help me teach my horse to stand still at the mounting block while I get on the bloody beast!!!

I love my horse dearly. He’s taken good care of me and hauled me through over a decade of riding all over the country. HE has his quirks, but I’ve been the only one on him his entire life. So, I only have myself to blame for the holes in his training.

He’s well trained. Well-versed in groundwork. But for the life of me. I cannot get him to stand still at the mounting block. He’s almost 17h. I am short, and old. And am not flexible.

It is like this “game” he plays. Every flipping day. I lead him to the block. Drop the reins. He stands there, half asleep, hind leg cocked. I crawl up the mounting block, turn my stirrup to put a foot in. And he takes a little 8 inch shift. Away from me.

I cannot get on.

I get down, move the mounting block over. Repeat the paragraph above.

If a horse could laugh . . he’s laughing at me.

After a few attempts (and once he’s convinced he’s “made his point” that HE’s the boss here) he stands still and I and scramble on.

Help me.

[cloudy18]

You’re also well-trained, lol. Stop moving the mounting block. When he moves away, then keep him moving. Then he comes back to the mounting block. When he stands still for mounting, praise and take a minute to sit quietly.

You could also teach him to step back to the block using a riding crop. I’m sure you can Google that process, or maybe someone here can run you through it. It’s something I should teach mine as well.

[meaty_ogre]

As someone who has had acl/meniscus surgery, standing still at mounting is a 100% requirement.

1. Get one of those big, sturdy 3 step mounting blocks.

2. Determine your horse’s personality type. Some horses who are on the hotter side need to be worked in hand before they are mentally capable of standing still. Just like asking a 5 year old to sit still at a desk all day in kindergarten. Some are better than others but they all need recess. My TB and half Arabian need to be longed or ground driven first.

3. If he is stepping away from you, pay attention to a few things when you’re getting on. Are you stepping into him, instead of up and over? It’s easy to do on the really big horses. You may be inadvertently pushing him. Also, make sure you keep his head bent slightly away from you by shortening the outside rein. If he’s going to move, this will encourage him to move towards you, which is actually safer. A moving horse while mounting is not safe, but if he steps towards you while you’re in mid-mount, you won’t be as likely to slip, as he will be stepping under you. Also, do you require him to stand once you’re on, or do you immediately always walk off? He will anticipate, so keep him guessing. Make him stand. Back away sometimes. Sometimes turn left, sometimes turn right. Always your idea to move first, not his.

4. If he is motivated by food, do not be afraid to incorporate the use of clicker training and/or treats. My paint is highly food motivated and will do anything for peppermints, including standing at the mounting block for as long as I ask. One caveat, be prepared for the bent-around snakeneck, looking for his treat. A little annoying but he does stand still waiting for me to unwrap his mint.

5. Some horses are averse to hard work and can be easily dissuaded from wandering from the mounting block by forcing them to back (and not just a little bit, it has to be work!) Every time they move. I’m talking back him 20 steps, or even back him in a figure 8 pattern. It is hard on them and they will get tired of it eventually, even the hyper ones. It does take a long time with them.

6. Be persistent and consistent. There is always a winner and loser in any standoff, so make up your mind that you’re going to win this battle even if it takes all winter. Odds are it won’t, but you can’t give up any ground. Every time he does it, you must correct.

7. If he is more high strung, practicing at the end of a riding session can be helpful, after he has had a chance to work and be tired. Practice getting on and off 30 times. You’ll be very sore the next day, but repetition is necessary. Do not allow him to move at all though. Every time he does, you must back him, and again 2-3 steps won’t do. It has to be a lot more work for him to back than to take a sidestep. Reward when he does stand still.

[beau159]

@The Tin Man;8436111

I get down, move the mounting block over.

I agree with the other poster that your horse has you trained very well, haha.

When you climb up on that mounting block, you are NOT to move from it. You make your horse do the work.

How good is your horse’s ground work in the first place? If not very, you’ll need to work on that first. What I would do, is have a lunge whip or long whip in my hand, so that when the horse takes that step away from you, you reach around the other side of him with it, to sidepass him back to you.

So you need to already be able to control his body in that way: shoulders, ribcage, and hindquarters. Using an “extension” of your arm, so to speak.

Stay consistent with it. He’ll eventually learn that if he moves, you are just going to move him back, so he might as well stay there in the first place.

Honestly, I’m not super careful getting on and off my horses. Because if I accidentally do bump their flank with my foot, I want the horse to not care. I don’t want to have to “tip toe” around the horse with mounting and dismounting. I want to know if I slip or mess up, the horse is going to be “used it ot” and will continue standing there no problem. When training young horses, I’ve been known to look like a fool, jumping/hopping around, bumping into them on purpose, etc, to train them to do just that.

Also, when you DO get on, make sure you make him stand for a few seconds (or longer) before walking off.

[Wirt]

If you can understand what’s taking place here, it might help you not move the mounting block.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J0K_ZnHzTeI

[SuzieQNutter]

I agree with everyone else. The mounting block stays still. The horse is moved back to it every single time.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=beau159;8436816]
I agree with the other poster that your horse has you trained very well, haha.

Honestly, I’m not super careful getting on and off my horses. Because if I accidentally do bump their flank with my foot, I want the horse to not care. I don’t want to have to “tip toe” around the horse with mounting and dismounting. I want to know if I slip or mess up, the horse is going to be “used it ot” and will continue standing there no problem. When training young horses, I’ve been known to look like a fool, jumping/hopping around, bumping into them on purpose, etc, to train them to do just that.[/QUOTE]

Me too. They are completely sacked out and desensitized before I first get on, so nothing I do will cause concern. If you need to tip toe around the horse, the horse needs more training.

The reason horses move away when the rider attempts to mount is because the rider’s body position puts pressure on the horse, and when the horse steps away, the pressure is released.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmlOanVeqxo

See how when the horse moves, Buck makes the horse move back into position? This is the technique that worked for me.

Remember, you aren’t allowed to get off the mounting block once you’re up there. That’s how my teacher had me think of it anyway. I wasn’t moving the mounting block (ours is fixed so I couldn’t ) but I would climb down and work the horse and then lead him up again. This isn’t a good plan, just in case you wondered. :winkgrin:

It’s good you have lots of time this winter. Not that you’ll need it, necessarily! But I find that’s the best attitude to have when teaching these kinds of things - “I have plenty of time and just this one thing to work on.” Keeps everybody nice and relaxed and you can really look for each little try and reward it.

[Gamma]

Treats treats treats. My horse used to be a mover, until I started giving him a treat every time I got on. Recently I was getting on from a fence, bareback, wobbly board, it was almost dark–all of the stupid ideas, basically. I went for it anyway (stupid), with the idea flashing through my head as I was midway that I was going to hit the ground. Grabbing mane and bracing as soon as I could… And there he was, standing perfectly still, neck bent around, looking back at me, “Where is my treat?” He got two. (Side note, I like giving the treat on the off side, because a horse with his head bent around that way moves his shoulder closer to the mounting block/near side.)

Also, if you can get someone on the ground to help you while you’re teaching him this, so you can set him up for success the first few times so that he learns a little bit faster. Do everything normally but have them stand blocking him from moving. Once he is standing and waiting for a treat OK with a person, graduate to a non-person block, like a corner of the arena (with the mounting block inside). When he has that, you can move back to the center.

[DLee]

@cloudy18;8436491

You’re also well-trained, lol. Stop moving the mounting block. When he moves away, then keep him moving. Then he comes back to the mounting block. When he stands still for mounting, praise and take a minute to sit quietly.

This. It might be easier to start teaching him with a rope halter than with your bridle on, depending on how well he responds to your bit.
But ask him to come up right next to you and stand there. When he does, quit doing what you’re doing and pet him. (Sounds like he’s got that part already maybe.)
But if he moves away then immediately make him keep moving around until he is back in the correct position where you will then let him stand there. Rinse, repeat. Standing next to you in the proper position is where he gets his relief. When he doesn’t is when you put him back to ‘work’ getting back to the position you chose.

I still think it’s one of the coolest things that my horses will pick me up on the fence or the mounting block, every time. Years ago I couldn’t have imagined that I could get them to move their hindquarters OVER to me to do that.

[The_Tin_Man]

SUPER recommendations! thank you all!!!

I think the “food” motivator will be the best.

I should have included his description in the original post.

He is a 17h Irish/shire cross. So reaching around and tapping with a whip is kind of a moot point. I’d have to get off the dang mounting block just to get anywhere remotely near his hip/shoulders/hindquarters. He wears a size 90 blanket (Gah!)

He doesn’t move off once mounted. And jigging excitedly before mounting. Uhhhh no. That, in his opinion, would burn too many calories!

I can always carry treats. I foxhunt him so always have a leather sandwich case/flask case on board that I can pocket treats in.

Funny. If we are out in the field hunting and I need to dismount, I can always find a fence or log or rock to stand on to remount. And he gets it. . .we have a job to do and I need to get back on to do it.

He’s just a jackass in the arena. He even looks to the mounting block during the training session and if given a loose rein will wander over to the block and park himself next to it as if to say " this is where the ride ends, pardner . . .get off me".

[mjs8]

If you can do so safely, is there a way that he can be stood between the mounting block and the wall, instead of the mounting block and the middle of the arena? The if he chooses to step haunches away from block to the right, there is only so far he can go before wall stops him?

[The_Tin_Man]

The Buck videos were great! However I’d need to climb halfway up a tree, or get an 8 ft high mounting block to be above my horse like that!

[Palm_Beach]

I’m not a fan of treats - you think you are rewarding your horse, your horse may think he is taking food away from you (dominance). And you want your horse trained to respond to your cues. You don’t always have food with you to get your horse to do something.

Also, treats don’t fix the original problem because they are a form of bribery. The horse is not responding correctly because there is something in the way the person is interacting with the horse that needs to be addressed, and to bribe with a treat just means the horse has to ignore what the person is doing. Not a good way to train a horse. Dogs, yes, horses, no.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=mjs8;8437894]
If you can do so safely, is there a way that he can be stood between the mounting block and the wall, instead of the mounting block and the middle of the arena? The if he chooses to step haunches away from block to the right, there is only so far he can go before wall stops him?[/QUOTE]

I did this when starting my filly. I have an indoor with mirrors, so set up my mounting block in the corner so she’d face the mirror (a tip from a COTHer) and get distracted by her vanity. I had her between the mounting block and the wall…close enough that she couldn’t really swing her haunches around but with enough room for me to safely swing a leg over. In front of her was the mirror but enough of an alleyway to walk forward and out once I was on.

Like someone else suggested, I also do ground work or lunging or ground driving first so she’s already mentally focused on me.

With my mustang, I did (and still do) use cookies. He stands still and I get on and he does a cookie stretch to each side before we walk off.

I haven’t had to resort to cookies with the pony and in her case I think it would make her more fidgety for mounting.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=The Tin Man;8437903]
The Buck videos were great! However I’d need to climb halfway up a tree, or get an 8 ft high mounting block to be above my horse like that![/QUOTE]

Oh, yeah, I don’t have that setup either. Although my horse is relatively short (15.1hh) so is my three-step mounting block. It works the same way - just doesn’t look as cool, probably.

[beau159]

[QUOTE=The Tin Man;8437888]

I think the “food” motivator will be the best.

He is a 17h Irish/shire cross. So reaching around and tapping with a whip is kind of a moot point. I’d have to get off the dang mounting block just to get anywhere remotely near his hip/shoulders/hindquarters. He wears a size 90 blanket (Gah!)[/QUOTE]

I also personally am NOT a fan of treats. I always say: What will you do when you horse doesn’t want one?

For a tall horse, you don’t have to reach around. Think of reaching “over”. Do your ground work first. Make sure he is responsive to you. When you are on a mounting block, you should be able to top the top of the hip (or top of the ribcage, or top of the withers/neck) in order to ask your horse to move back over to you. And if he’s too far away to reach, then “point” and “lunge” him closer to you.

The same concepts are applied, even for a large horse. It can be done.

[QUOTE=The Tin Man;8437888]
He’s just a jackass in the arena. He even looks to the mounting block during the training session and if given a loose rein will wander over to the block and park himself next to it as if to say " this is where the ride ends, pardner . . .get off me". [/QUOTE]

The horse will do what you allow them to do.

So if he acts like a jackass in the arena … well it’s up to you to allow him to do that, or not.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Treats might work.

I tried positive reinforcement techniques (targeting/clicker stuff) with my horse for awhile. At first it worked great but then he started getting over-excited and kind of dangerous to be around.

I went to a clinic recently where a horse had a similar reaction, and the clinician taught the owner how to present the reward differently to avoid the over-reaction. But to me, it just seemed like a lot of extra work - teach him a behavior to get a reward, then teach him another behavior to receive the reward, yeesh - so I’m glad I just went back to pressure/release type negative reinforcement. Which works fine for us.

Anyway, if you want to try it, google Shawna Karrasch. She’s the equine c/t guru.

[Mtn_trails]

My young horse would swing her quarters away from me when I’m on the mounting block so what worked for me and it only took a couple of sessions was to move her around the block until she was where I wanted and when she swung away, I’d do the tap the hip bit until she moved over. I rewarded every tiny progress with lots of praise and scratches so it was only a couple of days with short 10 or 15 minute sessions when she would stand for mounting and stand until I asked her to go forward. She’s a smart girl.

[alicen]

Does your horse know what “no!” means?