I started trail riding my 11 year old small draft horse this year. He seems to be a natural…very brave, sure-footed and calm. The only problem I have is that he only exhibits these attributes when he is first in line. When he is in the middle of the pack or last in line, he becomes very strong. If he is the leader, he is calm and relaxed. How do you help a horse learn to accept different positions on the trail? He will usually comply at the walk, but forget it if we are trotting or cantering. At home I am working with him riding behind another horse through the fields, but he does not like it one bit and it is not relaxing for me. Any suggestions?
When I first got my OTTB he would throw a tantrum if he wasn’t first. He was terrible. He’d bounce, he’d paw the ground, he’d canter in place!
Here’s how I fixed it. I would go out other horses and only let him lead for a little bit. Then I’d move him behind another horse for a short period of time. When he started to go absolutely nuts, I’d move him back in front. Eventually he’d stay second or third for longer periods of time. It took a lot of patience and repetition but now he goes anywhere.
I have had this problem with my horse before and first I worked on it in the ring with some friends. We took turns walking in different positions along the rail with about the same distance between us as we’d have on a trail. That didn’t seem to bother him nearly as much as it did out on the trail but we still spent several sessions doing that.
Same group of friends and I then went out to the trails and it was understood that it was a ‘schooling’ session for my horse (which took the pressure off me so I didn’t feel that I was ruining anyone else’s ride). We would leap frog from place to place, but I was careful to never let my horse pass one of theirs. If it was my turn to be in front, we found a place where they could turn around and go behind me. I never allowed my horse to pass another horse on the trail. Like the pp said, we didn’t work at it for long. Maybe 5 minutes at a time away from the front. I tried to stretch that time more and more. It got better but it was a slow process. I still prefer to be out front as that is where he is truly happiest, but he has learned to be anywhere in the line. I also find this is more of a problem in a wide open place than in a single file, mountainous type trail.
It has been my experience that a horse that insists on leading will always be that way. You may alter his behaviors a little, but he will truly only be happy in the front. You can either embrace it or move on. It is great to have a leader on a ride. It is also great to not fight a horse that tries every thing he can to get to the lead.
A horse that will do all is a find.
My draft cross is the natural leader as well. She is an alpha mare (but not nasty) and she knows it’s her job to clear the cobwebs, spot the “spookables” first and protect those behind her. The only time she will give her leade spot away is to another horse for water crossings. Then she’s quite comfortable letting another horse get eaten or swallowed first. :lol:
Don’t make yourself crazy over trying to change it. Good manners, tho, are always required for a leader, so reinforce that.
My QH is like this. He’s not terrible about it, but he will take advantage if I’m not paying attention to him 100%. If we’re close to another horse he like to nip their butts to tell them to “hurry up” and if we’re farther back he will attempt to take off sometimes. I try to make him the lead horse as much as possible just because he is SO good and will pretty much go anywhere (some bridges and odd creek crossings are still a bit iffy), but if we’re not first I just tell him to deal with it and ride him accordingly. When we’re first I can ride him on the buckle with no worries, when we’re not I keep connection and pay attention.
The only thing that will make your horse better about this is time. The more you ride farther back in the group the more the horse will get used to it. The rides won’t be as enjoyable for a while but it’s worth it to get a better horse in the end. You could try riding in the last position and doing halt transitions and lateral movements to take his mind off of it. That helped my horse when he was really bad about not leading.
Absolutely you can train your horse to ride where YOU want. When I first got my OTTB I thought he would never hunt because in the hunt field you are NOT allowed to go careening up to the front and passing members and you can’t have a horse that throws tantrums :D. He is very polite in the field now and is content wherever he goes. He can lead the field, go in the middle, or bring up the tail end as sweeper.
It takes patience and perseverance. You also have to establish that YOU are the alpha horse and YOU get to make the decisions. It also takes time to establish that trust but it comes with training.
Wet saddle blankets. My horse will ride wherever I put her and behave, although she is happiest out front, and if I’m not paying attention, she’ll sneak her way back up there. She is an amazing lead horse, but she still has to ride where I put her. Other than by watching her ears and facial expressions, you wouldn’t know she hates being in back, but we are 7 years in and have had a lot of practice.
Bogie and katyb are Right
You have to work at this aspect and train the horse. They really start to get it when they are tired. I can’t tell you how many times in the hunt field someone careens past me on a fire breathing dragon and wails “well, he wants to be up front.” Of course he does - they all do.
I hate it when the rider just lets the horse do what “it wants” and this also makes for an insecure horse, btw. They are the ones who cut you off when you try to ride beside them to say hello, the ones breathing down your neck even though you are gallopping in a 500 acre field, the ones who insist the horse has to stay with his buddy, even after four seasons, etc. In other words, clueless.
People worry so much about the galloping and jumping they ignore the waiting, walking, and being in a group aspect, so we foxhunters can totally relate to this.
Work at it with friends, be firm, bit up, circle them when they pitch a fit, just do what it takes and keep very calm and focused on the trail, not on them.
It reminds me of a woman who used to keep her horse at our barn. She complained that her horse “hated” to go on new trails because they weren’t familiar and that if she had to turn around he’d have an anxiety attack. Guess which one of them was in charge?
Give me a break! Your horse should go on whatever trail you choose, new or not. My horse and I explore all the time and he hasn’t had an anxiety attack yet :D.
I will agree that some horses more naturally accept riding back in the field, but you can for sure train them to go where you want.
Lots of little I am in charge corrections and directions.
NEVER EVER NEVER let them set their own pace or speed. If you ask for a 4 MPH walk, demand it if they even thinking about a switch to a 6 MPH powerwalk. Most riders are passengers. Few are willing to truly establish control and the status of benevolent dictator. They just get by and do their best but the control question is always a little bit up in the air. My gelding Chip is very much a front of the line horse- though he is at the bottom of the pecking order pile. The new gelding, Scout, also wants to be the leader. So, my husband and I play lots of leapfrogging games and he fully understands that he MUST take control of Scout and if he sets him at Chip’s hip bone, he must keep him there or else Scout is in charge.
It’s grossly unfair to get tired of dealing with it and let the horse be in front and in charge and later get gassed up about dealing with it. If you put him in front, keep asking him questions-leg yield, circle trees, stop and back up…instilling the idea of who is in charge.
This is a very stubborn thing to correct if done halfway. The horse just gets exasperated if it’s fine to do whatever for a while, then it’s not fine.
[QUOTE=katarine;6161192]
Lots of little I am in charge corrections and directions.
NEVER EVER NEVER let them set their own pace or speed. If you ask for a 4 MPH walk, demand it if they even thinking about a switch to a 6 MPH powerwalk. Most riders are passengers. Few are willing to truly establish control and the status of benevolent dictator. They just get by and do their best but the control question is always a little bit up in the air. My gelding Chip is very much a front of the line horse- though he is at the bottom of the pecking order pile. The new gelding, Scout, also wants to be the leader. So, my husband and I play lots of leapfrogging games and he fully understands that he MUST take control of Scout and if he sets him at Chip’s hip bone, he must keep him there or else Scout is in charge.
It’s grossly unfair to get tired of dealing with it and let the horse be in front and in charge and later get gassed up about dealing with it. If you put him in front, keep asking him questions-leg yield, circle trees, stop and back up…instilling the idea of who is in charge.
This is a very stubborn thing to correct if done halfway. The horse just gets exasperated if it’s fine to do whatever for a while, then it’s not fine.[/QUOTE]
+1
G.
I have not actually tried this and it is a little unorthodox, requires a big safe place to ride with decent footing, and people on calm horses who are willing to help you out. So the hyper diaper horse in the back is allowed to run to the front and then immediately run to the back and walk. Repeat until hyper diaper is tired and willing to walk in the back. I have no idea how well this works but it should give the horse the message that he is going to end up in the back anyway. Ha ha ha. Anyone ever tried this?
Play hunter pass with a group of friends. Sort of a game of leap frog with horses.Start in ring and then progress to trails/fields.Walking in line back horse moves over and walks faster until it passes and ends up in front. Continue with all walking back horse moves over and trots past until in the front then walks. Then everyone trotting slowly, last horse moves over and does a more extended trot to the front. This can be done on thru cantering.
[QUOTE=Mukluk;6161340]
I have not actually tried this and it is a little unorthodox, requires a big safe place to ride with decent footing, and people on calm horses who are willing to help you out. So the hyper diaper horse in the back is allowed to run to the front and then immediately run to the back and walk. Repeat until hyper diaper is tired and willing to walk in the back. I have no idea how well this works but it should give the horse the message that he is going to end up in the back anyway. Ha ha ha. Anyone ever tried this?[/QUOTE]
If I understand this right, you ride until the horse gets antsy, then ride to front and calm down, then ride to the back until it gets ansy again, and repeat?
If the above is correct, doesn’t this just teach the horse that misbehavior in the “pack” gets it to the front, where it want’s to be?
G.
I have begun working with several friends using the leap frog idea. Oisin does comply better when he is tired, however he is fit and it takes forever for fatique to set in. He is a really smart horse and I always have to mix things up to keep him from trying to make the decisions himself. But like my horse, I enjoy the challenge, so I say “Game on, Oisin!”.
I absolutely agree that patience and time in the saddle on trails is the answer. I have only begun riding on trails this year, and am blessed that my horse does not spook at deer etc. We will conquer this alpha behavior!
[QUOTE=Guilherme;6162293]
If I understand this right, you ride until the horse gets antsy, then ride to front and calm down, then ride to the back until it gets ansy again, and repeat?
If the above is correct, doesn’t this just teach the horse that misbehavior in the “pack” gets it to the front, where it want’s to be?
G.[/QUOTE]
horse never gets to stay in the front. Only go to front and IMMEDIATELY return to the back.
[QUOTE=Mukluk;6163456]
horse never gets to stay in the front. Only go to front and IMMEDIATELY return to the back.[/QUOTE]
OK.
But if the horse wants to go the front, misbehaves, and you take it to the front why does that not reward the misbehavior?
G.
I agree with much of what has been said- wet saddle blankets and they need to focus more on ‘you’ than on their surroundings. To be sure, easier said than done and it takes consistency and repetition.
All day trail rides are your friend. Let 'em go up front for the first couple of hours and then drop back to chat with friends and etc. And- for example, on an all day ride where you are going to stop for lunch or dismount for a short break- get back to the middle of the pack BEFORE the group stops and dismount from there. Among other things, the horse learns that good things can happen from back there.
