i recently got a 16 yr old paint gelding that was used as this guys back up penner. he would pull him out and use him when his other horse was lame. Good times…
Super sweet horse, but when I get on, he is all business and not in the best way. His walk and trot is very fast, great lope though. When he is with others, he cant stand still and is quite gate sour too. I am trying to get him to realize there will be no more yahooing around, I have heard he was basically spurred and jerked around. No offence to penners, but our local club scene ones are not the best quality riders.
Any advice on chilling him out? I was hoping to try sorting with him.
Sounds like he is not really broke, just has been chasing cattle by the seat of it’s pants.
Start him all over, like a colt, except he should learn much faster.
Once he understands to ride properly, when he has the skills to handle a finer ride, then practice where he is not reverting back to his wild ways, until he gets that is not how the game is played now.
Then, penning/sorting is generally not about finesse, but manhandling horse and cattle rushing around.
You rarely see fine horsemanship there, just good penning/sorting, which is a skill all it’s own and a whirlwind activity loved by many.
Doesn’t hurt the cattle or horses, just doesn’t showcase the best true cattle working techniques.
If you rode like that in a pen to sort cattle, or out to pasture into a herd being held for sorting, you would not be asked to come back and everyone around would be warned about you.
Sorting/penning are arena games of chase the cattle around, painful to watch to real cattlemen.
Looks like something kids may do for a lark, that somehow ended up an arena fun event.
Once you understand that, it is much, much easier to take a back seat and decide if you want to take it easy and teach the horse, or go pell-mell for the chasing, get-'er-done fun, any which way.
That is the way your horse may have been “trained”.
Horses learn the difference in a hurry, if you go easy about teaching them and not letting them practice the wrong thing.
If he gets antsy anticipating wild riding, quit until you have taught self control.
The riders that can do both, ride properly and still get their cattle with minimum disruption and chasing, are those that in the end are more consistent and win.
Then, too many are loving the chasing around too much to stop and think and treat their horses and the cattle a bit less wildly and cavalierly, as your horse seems to have been.
Mid teens is a great age to teach your horse to stop and think.
It should come naturally to him now, once he gets that the game has changed.
Thank you Bluey, it seems that he has had some good training, he is very responsive and neck reins quite well. I was watching a vintage cutting event yesterday at the local club and how well these “older” riders treated their horses and the cattle. very respectful.
[QUOTE=runwayz;8200283]
Thank you Bluey, it seems that he has had some good training, he is very responsive and neck reins quite well. I was watching a vintage cutting event yesterday at the local club and how well these “older” riders treated their horses and the cattle. very respectful.[/QUOTE]
My older horse was trained and shown in reining for three years, then became a ranch horse and was used team penning for several more years, all by his breeder.
Then he was sold to a lady that penned with him and was very successful.
I bought him when he was older and slower and she moved on to more horse.
He is one of those that knows the difference between getting up to go work hard and fast and taking it easy.
With all that previous good training, the world is his oyster.
Maybe you just need to work with him so he again remembers previous good, sensible, slow training, with more standing there than hurrying around to it and you too will have a wonderful horse, like mine is.
Now, some horses are wired very tight and are the more nervous, worrier type, no matter what they do.
If that is him, you will have to work harder at overcoming that and “forgive” him when it may overwhelm him.
Teaching those horses to chill, head down, stand there, helps very much.
Yes, cutting is a whole different kettle of fish when it comes to working cattle.
We used to practice cutting on our replacement heifers, made them oh so easy to handle once older cows in the herd, when they learned to respect a horse.
Sorting/penning was not yet something people did, but I expect all that handling, even if more hurried, also helps train your cattle to move when horses tell them to, get them over being spooky and wild.
Great discussion, bluey, can you recommend a vid on youtube which demonstrates some of this done well? I’d love to see some of the good ones.
My little mare worked for a living on a ranch and then a feedlot. She is a dragon on cows. It has taken a while to get her to not want to take over. Put on a cow, hang on…she knows her job.
I worked with cutting and cow horse trainer and we did lots of slow work. More Cutting and holding. Lots of slow herd work, holding the herd and turn back. She is still all business on cattle but doing what I want her do and the cow I want. Sorting is definitely more our thing. She is really fast and know she would get hot in penning. I don’t like running cows and boy can she stop and turn a cow on the fence.
Find a real cow horse trainer and teach him slow down and pay attention to you. Also trail obstacles can really make a horse listen. Ranch horse competitions are a blast for a horse that is versatile and calm under pressure. My horse and I get too nervous but fantastic when we play with a small group.
Enjoy your horse.
Thank you again bluey! Great information. I am trying to get him to realize that its ok to stand around and watch. Lots of rewarding and just sitting in the saddle like a lump. lol. He has a hard time just hanging out. And thank you crz4crtrs for your input too. 
Runwayz, the first thing I would do is get that horse out of the arena for awhile.
Go trail riding, lope circles in the pasture, anything but arena work. If you have a chance go work cattle outside.
I am not a team penning fan at all, I realize that it is fun and a way for people to chase cows horseback that don’t normally have access to such activities but all the ones I have seen have about the worst horsemanship and cattle handling I have ever witnessed. A lot of ramming and jamming and after the run is over the horse gets tied to the trailer. So it is no surprise when a horse that has been used that way gets hot, anxious and gate sour.
Anyhow go do something else on him for awhile not in an arena. When he gets to the point where he is relaxing when ridden outside at the end of your ride, ride him into the arena(away from the gate) get off of him, loosen your cinch and lead him out. On most horses it doesn’t take too horribly long before they figure out that they can relax in there and then you can do some slow easy work in the arena without him getting fired up.
To address the gate sourness further, there could be a few reasons why he’s gate sour. One of them being pain of course, wouldn’t hurt to get him checked out.
And never ride him out of the gate when you are done. Get off of him away from the gate, loosen your cinch and lead him out. If you have the option lead him out a different gate than you brought him in and change what gates you use to come in and come out. That will help relieve the leaking to the gate when being ridden.
Someone mentioned riding with a good cutting or cowhorse trainer, do it. This will help you and your horse and he will teach you how to work cattle more efficiently rather than just chasing them around. It will also help your horse realize that he can work cattle quietly then team penning will be more fun for the both of you.
Best of luck to you and your new horse! The above is what I used on team roping horses that were getting sour in the box and it made a world of difference hopefully it will help you.
[QUOTE=runwayz;8200212]
Any advice on chilling him out? I was hoping to try sorting with him.[/QUOTE]
Well I guess I would compare your situation to a barrel horse that has been soured on the pattern, and a rider wanting to be able to barrel race again on them.
I would spend a lot of time out on the trails with him, and cover LOTS of miles. put his energy to good use.
If you have an arena at home, I would end my ride there. Make it a relaxing place where you cool him down from his trail ride, and it is pleasant for him to be in there. Get off in the arena, loosen his cinch, drop the bridle, and walk him out.
When you get a good handle on him at home (depends on the horse; might take a few months) then you can start hauling him to team penning/sortings just to watch.
Make him realize that just because you took him somewhere, doesn’t mean he’s going to work. Spend a lot of time “camping out” on him and teach him to relax. Before and after the event, spend time going in and out of the arena. Remember to make it a pleasant place just like you did at home first.
It really depends on the horse and how well they progress, but you may need to NOT compete on him for a few weeks to a few months … to maybe a few years. Some will stay pretty sour on it for a long time; others will let go easier. Just make sure you don’t push him too hard or he’ll revert to his sour behavior to protect himself.
Good luck.
Thank you all for the pointers. The place I keep him at has lots of space to ride outside the arena. we ride around the big pond a lot, and the cows are out loose so we just walk through them. he has a seriously quick walk, so I let him walk out. When I am in the arena, I did start to make sure he will whoa and stand quietly away from the gate, and then I get off him and walk out. lots of praise too. I actually rode him English the other day, makes his trot easier to post to for me. Gonna pop him over a few jumps soon and see how he likes that!
