I have had him off the track for a year. I’ve tried a loose plain noseband for a long time to see if he will just relax. I’m starting to get impatient. I have tried a flash noseband tight and normal. I have tried a figure eight… Need some more suggestions please! Thank you
When were his teeth last done? What kind of bit do you ride him in?
Edit: oops missed the displacing part
Does he do this at the walk and trot, or only at the canter? If only at the canter, I would suggest…1. Make sure you are not taking a tighter hold on his mouth at speed, and 2. Some horses suck the tongue high in the mouth to avoid the bit, then when they work at speed they must stick the tongue out of the mouth to get enough air.
If 1. is the problem try a neckstrap, and longe lessons
If 2. is the problem maybe try a bit designed for tongue relief, Myler makes several. Or an english hackamore
I had a horse who would displace audibly when running around in turn out. The go to at the track is a straight bit and a figure 8. If that doesn’t work then do a Llewlyn
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7502923]
I had a horse who would displace audibly when running around in turn out. The go to at the track is a straight bit and a figure 8. If that doesn’t work then do a Llewlyn[/QUOTE]
what is a llewlyn?
A surgical procedure to prevent displacing.
in regards to DDSP, i’ve never heard it called a llewlyn! learn something new every day.
I didn’t know much about this subject so I did some goggling (cause that’s what us cool people do on Saturday nights!) and I thought this article was interesting:
You’re “getting impatient” over a physical deformity that affects both his comfort level and potentially his ability to breathe. Nice.
Try Laurie’s suggestion of the straight bit + figure eight, otherwise you may need to start investigating surgical options or a different career for this horse.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7502923]
I had a horse who would displace audibly when running around in turn out. The go to at the track is a straight bit and a figure 8. If that doesn’t work then do a Llewlyn[/QUOTE]
Curious how much success you’ve had with the Llewelyn procedure and how soon after returning to work did you see a difference?
I have an OTTB that does that. I have a loose ring french link snaffle and I wrap it with sealtex to make the bit fatter and still be soft. He loves that bit. Now my dressage scores are in the 20 ’ s. I don’t use the whole roll. Probably a little more than half. If you want I can take a pic of his bit and email it to you so you get an idea.
Well I am coming from the racing side so what I consider a success and what would be considered a success off the track are two different things. I have had 100% success with the procedure but it did not last for racing purposes. The filly who displaced in turnout had the Llewelyn and raced successfully for around six months. She then had the tie forward and ran successfully for another six months. She could have likely been retired to a non racing career after either of those procedures and been fine. The difference is immediate.
I don’t know what you mean by “displacing” exactly, other than a quick glance at the linked article, but -
(1) If there is a physical issue involved, you cannot make it go away via denial and nosebands.
(2) Tying a horse’s nose shut solves nothing. If he opens his mouth, he’s telling you something. Most of the time it’s because he’s uncomfortable due to a physical issue (which it sounds like you know he has) and/or the rider is using too much hand and he is confused.
Take off the noseband, call the vet, proceed accordingly.
That actually isn’t true. Often times if you can keep them from sucking their tongue back in the back of their mouth they do not displace. Which is why we always try the equipment change first. I have dealt with dozens of horses that displace over the years and hated having to deal with every one of them. Not the horse, the displacing. The filly referenced above won the maiden special weight first time out after the Llewelyn. She won an allowance the second time out after the tie forward. When the tie forward stopped working she ran last for never win three for $5000. She was worth about 50k when she could breathe and about 50cents when she couldn’t. She still managed about 100k in earnings but that probably would have been half a million if not for the DDSP.
The most common cause for DDSP is being nervous. She never displaced if given even 1/4 of one cc of ace but obviously you can’t race on that.
I have no experience with Cornell Collars, but there are at least a few trainers (at the track) who use them. Is that something you can use on an eventer?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7503764]
That actually isn’t true. Often times if you can keep them from sucking their tongue back in the back of their mouth they do not displace. . .
. . .The most common cause for DDSP is being nervous. She never displaced if given even 1/4 of one cc of ace but obviously you can’t race on that.[/QUOTE]
I wondered this with my own horse. He has never made any noise with his breathing nor shown any difficulty handling the low level event training he has been introduced to, but he has always been difficult with his consistency in dressage, UNLESS he is super relaxed, then he is beautiful. It just seemed harder than it should of been for him to carry himself in a nice low level frame. Now I know that the more flexed poll position for the dressage work impairs his breathing because he displaces.
He is 4 weeks post surgery for epiglottic entrapment and a Llewelyn procedure for DDSP. Not sure if he will be able to go forward with event training, but he’s a sweetheart and just plain fun, so I am happy regardless.
[QUOTE=Tux61096;7504050]
I wondered this with my own horse. He has never made any noise with his breathing nor shown any difficulty handling the low level event training he has been introduced to, but he has always been difficult with his consistency in dressage, UNLESS he is super relaxed, then he is beautiful. It just seemed harder than it should of been for him to carry himself in a nice low level frame. Now I know that the more flexed poll position for the dressage work impairs his breathing because he displaces.
He is 4 weeks post surgery for epiglottic entrapment and a Llewelyn procedure for DDSP. Not sure if he will be able to go forward with event training, but he’s a sweetheart and just plain fun, so I am happy regardless.[/QUOTE]
Well, it can be a chicken and the egg sort of situation…they get nervous and then displace, but they’re getting nervous in the first place because of the displacing, and a whole big circle.
My little filly tended to get so panicked over her displacing that she would rear, if head flipping didn’t fix it.
Had a whole host of surgical procedures (she had more going on then just basic displacement) done at Tufts last spring, and since coming back into work, she is cool, calm and collected, hasn’t offered to rear once. Best of luck with your guy!
[QUOTE=Meany;7503967]
I have no experience with Cornell Collars, but there are at least a few trainers (at the track) who use them. Is that something you can use on an eventer?[/QUOTE]
Very neat!
They work relatively well for standardbreds or so I have been told but not so much for TBs. That was one of the many things I tried on my filly but it did not help so I sold it.
I had one who did this. He’d open his mouth and suck his tongue into the back of his mouth. Sometimes he’d get his tongue over the bit…but most often he’d just cause a displace so he would make a noise.
He’d even do it on crossties with nothing in his mouth. Anytime he got nervous.
I put him in a HS Duo bit for a while and then a HS WH Ultra Sensogan. Just kept the bit higher up. I didn’t crank his mouth closed…in fact, I had him in a plain nose band for a long while. I did ultimately put a flash on for dressage and figure 8 for xc but never cranked them tight.
Then I just IGNORED it. I just rode him and stayed relaxed. He got better about it. I wouldn’t say he stopped altogether…but mostly. I competed him through training level and was about to move up to Prelim when another injury sidelined him. I wouldn’t say it really affected him eventing. I unfortunately lost him this winter to a pasture kick…but I’d take another horse like him in a heart beat.
I think the “trick” is just take you time and work to give them a good solid education. I had talked to me vet about the surgery…but in the end, it really didn’t cause issues. If he had go up past Prelim (like we had all expected) I would have kept a close eye on it to see if we had any issues galloping…but interesting, mine really only did it during dressage. For jumping and galloping…we never really had the issues. Probably because he didn’t get nervous about jumping.
