Help out an electric fence idiot.

[Ruth0552]

So I have a 1/2 acre paddock with 1 top strand of wire, with no climb underneath. The wire is 1 inch tape.

Right now I have a crappy 2 mile Zareba low impendence AC charger on it (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/zareba-2-mile-ac-low-impedance-fence-charger), as well as a solar (http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/zareba-3-mile-solar-charger).

This is clearly not working, as evidenced by fat spotted horse flicking it with his nose. He is developing a disregard for electric fencing and I would like to nip this in the bud.

There are a few weeds touching it currently, but I do not think it works any better when I cut back the weeds. Sometimes the fence very close to the solar charger delivers a decent shock. My grounding system consists of 1 real ground rod, which some old farmer relatives insisted would “be fine” and eventually I attached the wire to the ground rod to my no climb fence as well, that is wired to the metal t-posts.

The AC charger is about 4 years old and the solar one is about 8 years old. I suspect I need a new, beefier AC charger, as well as a legitimate fence tester to check for voltage.

I’ve looked online and some places say horses need 3-5 thousand volts. But there are chargers that have outputs of only like 500 volts. And I’ve read that the volts is actually only how fast the shock is running, not the strength of the power- that’s in Amps.

So I guess help me out- what do I actually need for a rectangular 1/2 acre paddock with 1 line of tape? And where do people buy a fence charger these days?

Electric stuff is really not my strength.

[hosspuller]

First off … Don’t use the charger mile rating for anything close to it. Use the rating to compare the shock value of chargers. For horses, get the highest rating you can afford. Consider the cost in relation to the cost of horses getting out. A higher mile rating means more voltage and “bite”

Second, grounding is critical. Both for the horse shock and your electrical system. Like a chain the connectors are to the rod are critical too. Get a rod connector that is UL rated for direct burial. Otherwise the connection and your grounding will suffer over time.

Weeds are a drain on the charger, if the charger is marginal, weeds will bleed off your “bite”

As for purchasing … farm supply, feed stores, or online. I’ve bought chargers from jeffers

[DHCarrotfeeder]

Rather than buy another charger, buy a tester. I have one with a digital readout and make sure it’s the kind safe for ultra short pulse (New Zealand style) fence chargers.

Don’t use a standard multimeter for testing, you’ll burn it up.

First, disconnect the charger. Then turn it on and test across the charger posts. If that’s good (5kV+) then connect your fence and test it.

In most cases, poor insulation of the fence conductor or poor grounding is the issue. Occasionally a bad charger.

David

[Ruth0552]

Interesting that I have gotten responses from I think men- am I right? But no women. Perhaps I am not the only woman that is an electric fence idiot.

hosspuller you confirmed what I was thinking. I need to buy the biggest charger I can afford.

DHCarrotfeeder- if my current charger is supposed to have a 110 volt output how would I get a 5,000 volt output between the posts.

I’m beginning to think that my current charger would only keep a squirrel contained. But honestly I do not think any current is getting around anyways!

[jherold]

The women didnt need to reply because they guys got it right. Its most likely the ground. I have 3 8ft copper clad rods linked together. They are about 10 ft apart about 7 ft in the ground. Dont use rebar. It will only work until it rusts. Get a good booklet on electric fence. Also only attach 1 charger. I cant remember why but I remember it being a no no! Definately buy a digital fence meter.

[hosspuller]

I’ve known several women engineers in my career so it isn’t a sex thing. Just more women than men ride horses. (See all the SO threads )

About that 110 volt output … It is really the “INPUT” you plug the fencer into the house outlet that provides 110 volts ac. The fencer does several things. One, it produces a spike of high voltage at the fence terminal every few seconds. Two, it limits that spike of high voltage to just a few joules of power. The high voltage causes the spark and bite. The low power provides the safety. It’s like the static charge that shocks when you touch the door knob after walking across the carpet. There’s high voltage, but just a little bit of power.

Jherold has a nice “ground plane”. I buried the top of my 8 foot rods 6 inches below ground level. (see ul listed clamps) I don’t trip over the rods or bust my lawn mower that way.

[hosspuller]

PS … as much as I would like a digital fence meter, A $10 5 light tester works well to indicate relative voltages. Much better than a finger :lol:

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/5-lamp-tester

[sk_pacer]

you can also test the fence with your truck radio set on AM. Each spike in power will send a rick through the radio, you wont know how much juice is going through but you can find where it is shorted out.

[ladymcts]

Female answering here! Unfortunately I’m also somewhat of a fencing idiot, in that I’ve read a lot more than I have dealt with them in person. But from what you wrote, I’d offer this book-knowledge advice …

1. start with the tester to find out what voltage you’ve got where. Don’t assume something doesn’t work because it’s old. My barn’s manager recently upgraded his tester to one that can tell him how far the signal is traveling, so he can more easily identify where the breakdown is

2. what’s your grounding like? without a good ground, the shock value goes to heck … adding water to your grounding pole will help ensure that portion of your setup is working well (and I would start with that before applying the tester)

3. weeds are less likely to be a problem than shorts … look for METAL interference such as a connector’s insulation worn away or broken, so the fence contacts a metal pole, causing that pole to ground out your power

[Ruth0552]

I have 1 real ground rod- not sure how far down it goes since my landlord (one of the old farmer relatives) installed it and said it would “be fine.” I have always been suspect of the grounding and eventually I read about using a ground wire. So I tied my ground rod into my no climb fence- so there’s a ground wire going all the way around, that is tied on to my tie posts (all of it’s metal). I thought I read somewhere that in bad soil you can use lots of shallow ground rods to make up for not being able to get a rod in real deep. My ground is clay with lots of rocks- so getting something in far is a problem. It does retain a lot of moisture though, so I’m not too concerned about the whole water thing.

I thought the light indicator voltmeters weren’t good since they only go up so far and on an AC system you might have more volts than that. I mean I don’t, but theoretically.

[DHCarrotfeeder]

[QUOTE=Ruth0552;8230132]
Interesting that I have gotten responses from I think men- am I right? But no women. Perhaps I am not the only woman that is an electric fence idiot.

hosspuller you confirmed what I was thinking. I need to buy the biggest charger I can afford.

DHCarrotfeeder- if my current charger is supposed to have a 110 volt output how would I get a 5,000 volt output between the posts.

I’m beginning to think that my current charger would only keep a squirrel contained. But honestly I do not think any current is getting around anyways![/QUOTE]

I personally haven’t worked with a charger that only outputs at 110v. Plenty of them get their power source from a 110v outlet. If you can share the model that might help us get more specific. Most new fence chargers run on high voltage with very short pulses of electricity. They take the continuous power of the outlet and convert it into very short duration high voltage pulses. My Zareba runs 6000v or 8000v, I forget exactly. High voltage is good because you can handle long runs without much loss and the current is very low, so less risk of injury. (It still hurts, but it won’t injure you). You’ll always have some loss of voltage over the lines but IME as long as you’re getting half of the voltage on the lines you’re going to be effective.

So the fence tester I’m using is designed for high voltage and very short pulses of electricity. The digital one is better than the ones with the indicator light bar, but either should work.

Sounds like you used your no-climb as the ground plane. Most of the advice here is based on using only the ground as the ground plane. Either can work, but I myself have had occasional issues with soil conductivity to make me consider using my spare fence strands as my ground. So keep that ground rod in place and connected too, as you said you have it.

David

[tangledweb]

You may have other issues too, but the first problem is you don’t look to have a charger intended for horses.

I’m looking at http://www.zarebasystems.com/resources/charts-and-guides and without checking exactly what model number you have, I don’t see anything they rate for less than 5 miles that says it keeps horses in. If you have something designed for chickens and rabbits I’m not surprised (or should I say shocked) when horses ignore it.

[AmarachAcres]

Here are my notes:

1.) One ground rod is not enough. Two is better, 3 is best. Ten feet apart.

2.) Do not mix metals. This is a mistake a lot of people make. Don’t have copper wire and steel connectors and iron rods. Pick a metal and stick with it for all parts.

3.) Every non-insulating item that touches your fence is going to bleed away zapping power. Weeds, fallen limbs, etc…

4.) Make sure you aren’t doubling back on your fence lines. IE: The tape shouldn’t loop around and tie to itself. Each wire needs to be a dead end. No P’s, B,s etc. Only U’s, W’s, etc…

[jherold]

I’m confused by why the tape shouldn’t tie to itself. How do you end the line then? I’ve always used copper split bolts to finish a line of electric rope or whatever. I’ve also used pieces of tape to jump electric from one line to another. Works great.

[AmarachAcres]

[QUOTE=jherold;8231446]
I’m confused by why the tape shouldn’t tie to itself. How do you end the line then? I’ve always used copper split bolts to finish a line of electric rope or whatever. I’ve also used pieces of tape to jump electric from one line to another. Works great.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I should clarify:

Lets say your fence is going in a circle. When you get to the end you can tie it off but don’t tie it to the starting point. Each strand should have a dead end.

--------------------------------------------------------- Start
|
|
|------------------------------------------------------------- End.

Not

__________________________________________________ Start tied to
| | End
| |
| |
|_________________________________________________|

http://blog.kencove.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/groundbed_10mishaps.gif

Here is another way to do it:

http://www.kencove.com/fence/40_Improving+Poor+Ground+System_resource.php

[hosspuller]

@AmarachAcres;8231524

Sorry, I should clarify:

Lets say your fence is going in a circle. When you get to the end you can tie it off but don’t tie it to the starting point. Each strand should have a dead end.

I don’t see the logic in dead ending a fence run.

I think you’re misreading the Kencove picture.

The utilities build loops into the electrical distribution system circuits. If anything, I try to make loops of fence. Then, the furthest point of the loop is fed from two directions. A break in the fence doesn’t isolate or kill any part of the remaining fence. This is basic electric circuits.

Please tell me if I’m missing some point… with horses it’s always different.

[Blume_Farm]

So a square pasture with a single strand of electric tape as a top rail shouldn’t have the electric in a continuous loop? Uh oh…am I doing my fencing wrong??

[Ruth0552]

Okay, this: http://www.amazon.com/Zareba-EAC5M-Z-Impedance-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0079GH54C is the exact charger I have, which is apparently no longer being made. And yes I realize now that it is intended for squirrels, but at the time my budget was small and I needed a new one to replace one that stopped working. The one that stopped working was a slightly bigger version, that had some zap, but not much.

It actually says in the description, “115-volt, 60 cycle, pulsed ac output (1-second intervals), 2.8 stored-joules of power, 2-joule output at 75-ohm.” I interpreted this to mean that the output was 115 volts. If it isn’t, is there a way I can find out the voltage output? I don’t know why they all can’t just say how many volts they put out instead of the joules or how many miles it’s supposed to cover, which basically means nothing, and if you know horses need 3,000+ then you know whether or not it’s good for horses. I swear it’s confusing on purpose. I suppose they are banking on people just throwing money at the situation until something works.

If I get the voltmeter and test my charger for output, will that tell me if my ground system is working? Or is there someway to check that?

[DHCarrotfeeder]

This manual came up on the Zareba website for your model of charger:
http://www.zarebasystems.com/resource/uploads/a5-zareba-5-mile-ac-solid-state-charger-instructions.pdf

Check page 30 - it has a troubleshooting section that indicates the charger should generate at least 5kV. So I think that the Amazon description is a bit misleading - you have a low impedance / New Zealand style fence charger. The word “output” did not apply to the “110 volt”.

Don’t attempt to use your voltmeter on it, it will damage the voltmeter because the pulses ramp up so fast the voltmeter protective circuits won’t function correctly. That’s why I had to buy a specific fence tester.

Knowing that you have horses and are using a lower energy charger, I would consider just upgrading it now.

[Ruth0552]

Well, I bought a fence tester and it is probably one of the best things I’ve ever bought.

My weeny charger is putting out about 3K volts and it is carrying on the fence until the type of fence switches. It is black & yellow 1" tape all around, but two different brands. 1 type is not working at all- not sure why, but the tester is not picking up any charge at all.

But, the good news is that my charger is working somewhat, at least, even with weeds. We are replacing the non-working fence with another kind of tape, and I will be ordering a larger fence charger anyways. I bought another ground rod and supplies, but it looks like I won’t need that, at least for now.

So happy I figured out what the problem was!