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Help - Researching and Valuing an Older Stubben

Hunter/Jumper
#1

A friend of mine had her husband’s old Joh’s Stubben Krefeld living in her basement and it just seemed like it was going to waste so I grabbed it up and told her I’d see if there was anything I could do with it.

It’s stamped on both side “Joh’s Stubben Krefeld” and is extremely nicely made. From what I’ve found online, “Krefeld” isn’t a model - just a location, so I’m not sure exactly what model it is.

It was purchased used in the early 1980s so it’s probably 40ish years old and is a 19" seat. Her husband used it for fox hunting on his old draft cross in the 80s and 90s.

Anyway, it’s a cool and “manly” saddle. I’m sure like many old saddles it could use a reflocking, but otherwise, the quality is top notch and it’s so secure. I hated seeing it go to waste in her basement and her husband hasn’t rode in years so he told me to take it and sell it for them if it was worth anything, or to keep it if it wasn’t worth much.

So the question is, where do I start my research and at the end of the day are these saddles really worth anything monetarily? I’m thinking that the saddle may be worth more to them and me personally that it would be worth monetarily… I mean, in case any large guy wants to go riding with me it would be nice to be able to pull this old beauty out! DH has already said no :mad:

ETA: Called Stubben North America and they said there was no way for them to date the saddle and there wouldn’t really be a way for me to get that information. I did look at the saddle a bit more in better light and it is a Siegfried model. She said its an All Purpose saddle, but there were two varieties - one geared more towards jumping and another geared more towards dressage. Since this saddle has a pretty forward flap we figured this was the jumping model.

#2

If you post pics, I can help you in identifying which kind of Siegfried it is.

The Siegfried AP was extremely popular throughout the 60s and 70s. That’s probably what you have. As the Stubben NA person informed you, there have been a few variations on the Siegfried, but by far the most popular and widely-used one was the AP. If you look under the flap, you will see a substantial crescent-shaped knee roll and a large thigh roll running down from the top to the bottom of the panel.

Some Siegfried AP “Extras” were sold. The Extra has a longer, more forward flap than the regular AP model; these tend to have the larger seat size as well so it may be worth investigating yours. Posting pics will help identify it as an Extra.

The other Siegfried your Stubben person was referring to is the close-contact model. There are several of these out there; the billet guard will probably say “Siegfried II” or “Siegfried CS.” The close-contact Siegfried will have a square cantle, smaller knee roll, much smaller thigh block, and shallower seat than the AP Siegfried.

You can locate the serial number of your saddle on the right-hand billet guard. It will be stamped near the top along with the tree width. (Popular widths were 31, 31.5, 32, for example.)

One advantages of the Siegfried is (as you’ve noted already) excellent quality. They last forever with some care. They also provide great security. I used to jump cross-country courses in mine, and it’s great for schooling green or unpredictable horses.

The drawbacks are that the AP model tends to put riders into a chair seat, the seat, though comfortable for a lot of riders, trends to be hard, and it’s really out of fashion in the show ring. All this means that your saddle isn’t worth that much if you’re planning on selling it. The fact that it is in pristine condition, was made in the original German factory, and is in a big seat size may help you get a bit more for it. A man who foxhunts might want it.

If it’s been sitting in storage, you should have the billets and stitching checked for soundness before using it. Take it to a tack repair place and have them look at it.

Good luck.

#3

Dewey, thanks so much!! I’m going to get it cleaned up this afternoon and I’ll post pics. Yes it does have the large crescent knee roll and long thigh roll from top to bottom.

I really appreciate your expertise!

#4

[QUOTE=OveroHunter;8596527]
I did look at the saddle a bit more in better light and it is a Siegfried model. She said its an All Purpose saddle, but there were two varieties - one geared more towards jumping and another geared more towards dressage. Since this saddle has a pretty forward flap we figured this was the jumping model.[/QUOTE]

The two varieties of an all purpose Siegfried during this time were “VSS” and “VSD”. The VSS was the all purpose/jumping-style flap and the VSD was the all purpose/dressage-style flap. I think there was another pure dressage Siegfried as well.

I think these saddles in good condition still have a market amongst fox hunters. You can check with the Middleburg Tack Exchange - they always have an inventory of these types of saddles: http://www.middleburgtack.com/index.cfm?action=inventory&pCategoryID=CFEE0AB1-C291-660C-45C830FCE0920C24&name=All%20Purpose

#5

I forgot about the VSD. As the above poster noted, that’s an AP but with a longer, straighter flap for people who were more interested in dressage. The VSS is the classic AP most people had.

Stubben still makes the Siegfried. That is a real testament.

#6

I’ve ridden in an old Stubben; they are excellent saddles, but don’t sell for a lot. If the leather and tree are in good shape, it would be worth getting it reflocked if you have a particular horse in mind. As you say, it would be a great back-up saddle, and as someone else pointed out, the large seat size means someone out there will probably want it, though not pay big money for it. I personally love that there are such great, old saddles still in circulation (the old Passiers are still around, too).

#7

I love my Stubbens and know others who do as well. I have 2 Siegfrieds, an older German one and a newer Swiss one. There is a market, but it’s going to be your foxhunters, trail/pleasure riders, some lower level eventers, etc. They are pretty popular among men. Around here, the older ones made in Germany tend to run in the $300-500 range in good condition. You might get the higher end of that range based on the large seat which is harder to find.

#8

My Stubben Siegfried was bought brand new in late 1969/early 1970 and I sold it about 4-5 years ago for $500. It was in very good condition but had some stains on the seat, strictly cosmetic. The local riding school in my area loves them because as they told me, it will last forever. It was the kind with the suede knee rolls.

#9

I have several different older Stubbens and all of them cost under $400 (one was $80 at a yard sale). They’re great saddles but tend not to be hugely marketable.

#10

Ok, I cleaned it up and oiled it. Keep in mind this has lived in a basement for probably pushing 2 decades. The “stains” look worse because I had just finished oiling it like 5 min before I took these pics:

So it’s actually a 19.5" saddle: https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12936779_10105391586169940_8973134867539397477_n.jpg?oh=3134a4cb96f3fa7388f628f1bd9e477b&oe=5777FD20

I think it’s stamped 30 cm:https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12801577_10105391585840600_5310595680182223761_n.jpg?oh=ce46132b8ffba9cee9f34c278d4e6e68&oe=578A03BE

Measured 5" dot to dot: https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12417574_10105391585371540_4878051901955591011_n.jpg?oh=b3501e77400ff5024931efc6c6470b4a&oe=577A5D7A

Knee roll and thigh block: https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12938148_10105391585606070_8650999308896872351_n.jpg?oh=b59f2e450ce72b3ab92cb919bc149917&oe=5785D37A

Does this mean Siegfried II? https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12923144_10105391585670940_7247324199851192354_n.jpg?oh=56191695090046864e8db8f5cef55886&oe=577F1A4C

Krefeld Stamp: https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12240147_10105391586199880_8474709718480851909_n.jpg?oh=fe1708b21f3c049e7762855498887501&oe=57840BB3

The whole shebang: https://scontent.fden3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12920539_10105391586464350_1581228218135926957_n.jpg?oh=759a5626b4db8ba2f716d9575c134e2e&oe=5791FAA7

#11

That is a classic Siegfried VSS. The billet guard does not say “Siegfried II”; the quotation marks are German. A Siegfried II would be a close-contact saddle (which yours isn’t), and it would have actual Roman numerals. The flap looks like the regular VSS flap as apposed to the Extra. You’re right: the tree size is 30 cm although the flocking has been compressed, and that’s probably not accurate any more. I used an old 31 cm Siegfried on my mare, and it fit her pretty well; she was fitted for my new Stubben Roxane as a 32.

Look at the buttons on top of the skirt. If they are plain silver (as opposed to having the Stubben brand name), I believe that means the saddle is older.

Yours looks very sound, but it’s not in great shape cosmetically. It does have stains, and the suede hasn’t been well cared for. These issues won’t affect its usability, but they will affect its value. I think it may be possible to resurrect the suede with a wire brush, but it’s a big job. After a point, I gave up on mine. As for the stains, they may become less noticeable with regular care, but I am not sure. I have two old Siegfrieds (one was my sister’s and is now my DD’s) and a old Rex from my childhood; one of my Siegfrieds is stained like yours, and there’s nothing I can do about it. At any rate, your saddle still has plenty of life left in it.

The large seat size is a plus. Someone, most likely a man, will want it. There are thousands of used 17" and 17.5" Siegfrieds out there.

#12

Thanks Dewey! I’m looking forward to bringing it back to life. I’m 20 weeks pregnant right now so I imagine a 19.5" saddle might be more comfortable than my 17.5" saddle in a few months (not that I’d do more than saunter around the arena)!

After that I’ll see what my friend wants to do with it. I can try to sell it for her, or just keep it and use it here and there for bigger guys.

#13

If it’s been sitting for that long, I would strongly consider replacing the billets before riding in it, just to be safe. At the very least, check the stitching really thoroughly.

#14

Mine looks very similar to yours except that on the lower set of buttons, they are square. I can’t see any of the writing on it any more except for some vague lettering of the Stubben on the flaps.

#15

I LOVE the Stubbens!! Older and newer!! I lost four in our barn fire in Jan. Two Lowengrins VSS, an Aramis, Dressage and a newer Siegfried…All smooth leather…no suede on the knee rolls. Newer Stubbbens list on Stubben.com for close to $4,000…and I never did find any newer/used ones. I ended up getting the Stubben Roxane Deluxe for hunting and cross country. I have enough padding and my tush is used to that saddle after 50+ years!! Good find OP!!! Enjoy!!

#16

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8598088]
If it’s been sitting for that long, I would strongly consider replacing the billets before riding in it, just to be safe. At the very least, check the stitching really thoroughly.[/QUOTE]

I’ll definitely bring it in to have it looked over. I’m lucky that 3 miles from my house is an equine consignment shop that is owned by a guy who restores saddles! He’ll be able to give it a good once over for me and let me know if it’s sound for riding or needs some repairs.

The thing that makes the shop even better is that his wife (the other owner) is a saddle fitter! She worked for County for a long time and now she does it in her free time when she’s not at the shop :slight_smile:

#17

I have a saddle with the following info imprinted on the flap. At the very top are 3 letters/number: looks like 7 R F. Next are large embossed cursive letters spelling Siegfried. Further down on the flap: John Stubben. Next line is Krefeld. Next line is Made in Germany Next line is 15656 (that I assume is the SN)
This saddle is in very good condition. Bought in Connecticut for my daughter in the 70’s.
Any more info available on this saddle?

After looking again, on the oval metal medallion under the skirt is SEIT 1894 Sattler Johs Stubben Krefeld Made in Germany.

#18

It’s an old Stubben :slight_smile:

To the people that love old school saddles they are priceless.

But no one will pay over $200 for one.

1 Like
#19

There is a FB page for used Stubbens as well. You might get an idea on pricing there.

#20

skat, you might get more looks posting a new thread rather than bumping a 4 year old one

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