HELP! stallion feeding suggestions

[themarchcat]

Okay, so I know I should probably post this on the horse care forum since I’m looking for feed advice, but I feel more comfortable on this one, plus everyone here knows stallions. Alrighty, so I should start out by saying that I do not own this stallion, but my Mom and I manage the small farm he is at (we keep my horses there as well), and so we truly have no say in what he eats, but I desperately would like to smack some sense into his owners, because the poor guy looks horrible! =(

Here is some info on him: he is a 1986 Arabian stallion, has a bad habit of running every bit of nutrients that we put into him off, so yeah, he’s an energizer bunny. Stands 14.1 on a good day ( =D ), has horrible teeth thanks to their lack of said “care”, and all in all, loves his food, so getting him to eat is not an issue, unless its hay, he has a very hard time eating hay. Oh and his ribs are not only palpable, but visible to the eye.

Okay so what we have to feed him are some lower quality pellets (off the top of my head I do not know the %), alfalfa pellets if I can beg them out of the lady, some sweetfeed (again the cheap kind and I don’t know the %), and my Mom and I donate beet pulp, whole oats, and rice bran into his feed mixture. His dinner is this: 1/2 (or full depending on if they even have enough feed or not! ugg!!!) scoop of the grain pellets, 1/2 scoop of oats, scoop of beet pulp, and 1/4 of rice bran.

Not really sure what to do, besides going out and buying him Sr. feed and feeding him as if I owned a 5th horse. Suggestions? These people should not be in horses, that’s for darn sure, but in a way, I am thankful that they are, because I would’ve never gotten to handle the amazing animals they have (and don’t cherish). I really want this guy to look fat and happy, and it kills me that this dumb lady will breed him on such a low body score =[ I can message pictures of him.

[Whitfield_Farm_Hanov]

Gosh at 25 yrs old I’d just get him the very best senior feed I could & also the very best hay & tooth care. That is if the owner’s will do that. Thanks for taking care of him. Will owners listen to what you say?

[Daventry]

@Whitfield Farm Hanoverians;5960078

Gosh at 25 yrs old I’d just get him the very best senior feed I could & also the very best hay & tooth care. That is if the owner’s will do that. Thanks for taking care of him. Will owners listen to what you say?

If he is having trouble eating hay and is that old, I would get him started on Nutrena Senior Feed. We also have a 24 year old stallion with poor teeth and he has done WONDERFUL after putting him on Nutrena Senior this year. He doesn’t even get hay anymore…couldn’t anyways as he can’t chew it.

Have you thought about speaking with the owners and explaining that he should be on a senior feed? While I applaud your efforts to look after him, it should be the owners responsibility to do so and not coming out of your pocket book.

[themarchcat]

Sigh, I’m glad that yall understand that it should not be our responsibility but their’s. I have tried several times to really push that they need to buy him Senior feed special for him alone (meaning, not just Senior feed, but Sr. feed and still the other grains for the rest of the horses), but just Sunday night when I was out mixing dinners and handing out hay, one of them came out there to check on the feed levels, which were non-existent, so we were feeding their horses off of our feed (UGG!), and I told her all of what was needed, including that she needed to supply her own beet pulp and rice bran (but that the RB was out of stock at the COOP) and she so cheerfully said, “Yeah cause most people are probably like me and buying the cheapest food they can find and then buying rice bran for the fat.” Oye, if it were possible to feed horses cattle feed and they not die, she would. I will do my best to press on, yet again, the Sr. feed diet and see how that goes. =[

[themarchcat]

[QUOTE=Whitfield Farm Hanoverians;5960078]
That is if the owner’s will do that. Thanks for taking care of him. Will owners listen to what you say?[/QUOTE]

I wish they would. It’s like talking to dirt almost. I’m going to try my best, but I’m afraid that until he loses more weight, they probably won’t listen to me. The teeth issue is very very sad! Last winter I went out to the barn and his bottom lip was looking very odd shaped. Come to find out, upon parting his lips, two of his bottom front teeth were barely hanging on. Mind you, I told them this and that they should get a vet/dentist out to remove them properly and clean up the area, there response? “They’ll fall out on their own or he’ll die.” I know for sure he’s never had dental care under their ownership, and I have been dubbed his farrier (I’m qualified) since they’re too cheap to pay for one. He came to these people in very good shape; nice shoes on his front feet, teeth looking good, good weight, slick and shiny coat/mane/tail, etc, but since they only care about his sperm (in my eyes) he’s not getting the best care possible. These people don’t need him that’s for sure, but while I’m still breathing, I’m going to do my best so that he lives out his old age happily. =/

[alexandra]

go and find out something to read about spoerm quality and nutrition… maybe telling them he could cover more mares if better ins shape and that he would attract mor mare owners if in better shape helps…

[themarchcat]

I should really do that. I’m currently in a nutrition course, as well as a repro course, so I do know the general knowledge of “better nutrition and condition the stallion is in, the better sperm quality and reproductive longevity” though I figure they won’t listen to me, lowly undergrad. So I’ll take that advice and try to get some research articles on this for them, maybe they’ll take the hint. You think? <sigh>

[Joie]

Call the authorities. Maybe a wake-up call will help things along.

[JackSprats_Mom]

Just FYI a food nutrishtionist told me that senior feeds aren’t always the best for weight gain (ie there are better feeds out there with more calories per pound). So don’t assume old= senior feed.

Good luck!

[themarchcat]

[QUOTE=JackSprats Mom;5960705]
Just FYI a food nutrishtionist told me that senior feeds aren’t always the best for weight gain (ie there are better feeds out there with more calories per pound). So don’t assume old= senior feed.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

Do you know of feeds that they would suggest? For some reason or another, I read that you could feed them bread? Anyone heard of this or tried it? I never had, I think it’s pretty interesting to say the least.

Joie Call the authorities. Maybe a wake-up call will help things along.

Sadly, I don’t think the authorities in my area will do anything as my friend and I have turned in a breeding farm in our area where the horses are in a much worse (?) situation than “my” guy is in and they could not find a single thing wrong because there was “food and water” on the premises. So sad. They have 2 year olds that look smaller than our 6mo filly and 6mos that look like young foals. Its insane and yet they did nothing.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@themarchcat;5960923

Do you know of feeds that they would suggest? For some reason or another, I read that you could feed them bread? Anyone heard of this or tried it? I never had, I think it’s pretty interesting to say the least.

I’d heard that…I think the yeast is good for them…but really don’t know. Probably same reason feeding them a good beer can help.

anyway…this looked like an interesting read
http://www.ker.com/library/EquineReview/2006/Nutrition/N33.pdf

If he is having trouble with his hay…I wonder if soaked (like really really soaked) alfalfa cubes would help. Make it almost a mash…

[themarchcat]

Since I imagine alfalfa cubes would be something these tightwads wouldn’t mind purchasing, I’ll mention it to them, as I doubt they’ll fork over anything to get him the Sr. feed he needs. As of now, all of his meals are fed very well soaked and turn into either a nice mash or soup, hehe, which he enjoys to always get all over his face! =)

[JackSprats_Mom]

Not sure which feed companies are in your area, but I personally, would call them and ask.

I ended on Omolene 200 over the senior as it has more calories.

[JumpinBeans81]

I know you can only feed so much oil, but it would give him added calories at a much lower cost than the RB…and since it sounds like you’re footing the bill for some of this, it may be something to consider. Also Black Oil Sunflower Seeds pack a pretty good punch for not too much $, you could add a cup or 2 at each meal…though not so sure he’d chew them well enough to make it worthwhile, unless you’re willing to grind them up for him. If I recall it’s the Omega 3/6 balance that is really important in sperm/semen quality? There are several fish oil supplements on the market now geared toward breeding stallions. Off top of my head, and trying to think of his owner’s ‘budget’ I think going with something like soaked alfalfa cubes or alf mix cube and beet pulp for the majority of his diet (they’re both considered long-stem fiber) with added oil (or other fat), sunflower seeds and a probiotic, if one can spare the extra $ a vit/min supplement or ration balancer as well. Love oats, but I’m guessing he’s not fully digesting them if he can’t crack open the hull, soaking helps to make them softer and some nutrients become more available in the process, so that might work, but they have to be whole oats…not so sure the rest of the barn wants whole oats. Somewhere I just read to substitute 1 pound of beet pulp (dry wt) for 1.5 lbs of hay, but no more than 40% of the forage requirements should be comprised of beet pulp.

Learning all this for my own horse whose coming back from peritonitis/bastard strangles/ulcers. Hope it helps. Lots of great suggestions…and CHEERS to you for helping this guy out!

Almost forgot…if you haven’t already…check out FeedXL.com AWESOME website! you can alter/balance different rations to different horses to make sure what you are feeding gives them what they need. Their database has ALL feeds forages and supplements in it, and if it doesn’t you just send them a link and in no time it is added to their database.

[paintjumper]

Omolene 400…

I have a 22 y/o stallion that will not eat senior feeds, everyone I tried he raked out onto the ground and just looked at me like he was insulted that I thought he needed the “senior” feed. In the Spring/Summer of this year I tried the Omolene 400, it is a beet pulp majority COMPLETE feed, so in theory, your old guy does not need hay. I feed the 400 like it’s a regular feed and my guy gets hay 24/7 too, but he does not have teeth issues.
My stallion has always dropped weight in the summer with breeding season and the heat but this summer, he GAINED weight on the O 400. I liked it so much, all of my horses are on it now. I HIGHLY recommend it. Since you take care of the horses, maybe you can buy it for him and get him going on it, then when he looks great, tell them what you did differently. Oh, and tell them you are scheduling a visit from the tooth fairy as well.

[TrinitySporthorses]

Seriously!!

[QUOTE=Joie;5960653]
Call the authorities. Maybe a wake-up call will help things along.[/QUOTE]

I had to do this with my neighbors. The animal control officer was very nice to work with and she was able to talk some sense into these people. If you don’t know who or how to contact, call the non-emergency number for the sheriff.
It IS illegal to neglect your horse (though rules vary from place to place) and this is what they are doing by not getting him proper hoof care and feed.

[themarchcat]

[QUOTE=JumpinBeans81;5968529]
I know you can only feed so much oil, but it would give him added calories at a much lower cost than the RB…and since it sounds like you’re footing the bill for some of this, it may be something to consider. Also Black Oil Sunflower Seeds pack a pretty good punch for not too much $, you could add a cup or 2 at each meal…though not so sure he’d chew them well enough to make it worthwhile, unless you’re willing to grind them up for him. If I recall it’s the Omega 3/6 balance that is really important in sperm/semen quality? There are several fish oil supplements on the market now geared toward breeding stallions. Off top of my head, and trying to think of his owner’s ‘budget’ I think going with something like soaked alfalfa cubes or alf mix cube and beet pulp for the majority of his diet (they’re both considered long-stem fiber) with added oil (or other fat), sunflower seeds and a probiotic, if one can spare the extra $ a vit/min supplement or ration balancer as well. Love oats, but I’m guessing he’s not fully digesting them if he can’t crack open the hull, soaking helps to make them softer and some nutrients become more available in the process, so that might work, but they have to be whole oats…not so sure the rest of the barn wants whole oats. Somewhere I just read to substitute 1 pound of beet pulp (dry wt) for 1.5 lbs of hay, but no more than 40% of the forage requirements should be comprised of beet pulp.

Learning all this for my own horse whose coming back from peritonitis/bastard strangles/ulcers. Hope it helps. Lots of great suggestions…and CHEERS to you for helping this guy out!

Almost forgot…if you haven’t already…check out FeedXL.com AWESOME website! you can alter/balance different rations to different horses to make sure what you are feeding gives them what they need. Their database has ALL feeds forages and supplements in it, and if it doesn’t you just send them a link and in no time it is added to their database. :)[/QUOTE]

What a greatly helpful post! I will definately go and check out that feeds database! Right now, both his breakfast and dinner is getting soaked to the bone in order to help it become soft enough for him to chew up and swallow. The oat comment (but they have to be whole oats…not so sure the rest of the barn wants whole oats.): we only buy whole oats to him and my horses all eat the whole oats, the other 3 foals owned by these people (mare/foal/gelding) all get hay, sweetfeed, and the crappy pellet grain she buys (they all seem to do well on it so I don’t feel the need to change their diet, truly only our boy). The oats get soaked (dinner) along with beet pulp and the pellet grain he gets. So basically we’re buying 3/4 of his dinner =/

And get this (this completely BLOWS my mind and made me so mad!!) darn lady, after she came in to check the feed levels and saw everything of her’s was empty, she brought back 2… YES TWO!!! bags of the crappy pellet grain and nothing else. SKKGHLASKHGSFHGAHLDIUEWUROE!!! uggg drives me nuts and she has not been home to get snarled at either. =( We buy wheat germ oil (flippin expensive… I need to tell Mom that veggie oil is practically just as good) for my horses, so I’ll start putting some of that into his dinner/breakfast as well. Good idea? I know he won’t miraculously become plump and happy over night, but I can’t wait for the day to see “my” old man looking like he was 10 again.

[themarchcat]

[QUOTE=TrinitySporthorses;5969348]
I had to do this with my neighbors. The animal control officer was very nice to work with and she was able to talk some sense into these people. If you don’t know who or how to contact, call the non-emergency number for the sheriff.
It IS illegal to neglect your horse (though rules vary from place to place) and this is what they are doing by not getting him proper hoof care and feed.[/QUOTE]

Well… they might not be footing the bills, but I am giving him proper hoof care (just without the pay… for ALL their freaking horses because they are too cheap to foot over 30 bucks a horse) and we definately do not let him go without missing a single meal, it’s just… again, mainly at our expense. I’m truly just trying to find cheaper (for either us to pay or hopefully them <growls>) ways to give him that added nutrition he doesn’t seem to be getting. All my other horses have the same diet and they look beautifully healthy, but I realize that the older ones, some times, need a little extra help. That’s where yall come in for ideas! =)

[TrinitySporthorses]

If you have Costco in your area (or any warehouse type store) you can get 5 gallon containers of Soybean oil. Flax oil is the best (in terms of Omega 3s, all oils have the same calories) but is very expensive. Canola oil is second best but still can be a bit pricy. Soybean oil is much better than other veg oils like corn.
I used to buy 5 gallons of soybean oil for about $25 and that will last you quite a while. Each Tablespoon has 120 calories and (I think?) there are 4 Tbs in 1/4 cup. This would mean 1 cup of oil has nearly 2000 calories! That should give him a boost =)
Another option is Omega Horseshine. SmartPak has the best price (buy the 20 lb bag). For less than 70 cents/ day you can give him a serving of this and it will help his hoof quality, haircoat, and general health. Many recent studies have shown that boosting Omega 3s in the diet improves semen quality so maybe you can get the owner to buy it. Smartpak offers free shipping on all orders over $75 so maybe she’ll buy 2 bags to get free shipping!
Good luck. I have always had a soft spot for Arabs and I am glad that old man has a guardian angel in you.

[themarchcat]

Thanks =) I could try talking her into it, as we buy supplements for my two Thoroughbreds from Smartpak already, so she wouldn’t have to worry about shipping. I’m not sure we have a CostCo anywhere closeby, but I’ll ask my Mom, we may have gotten one in a nearby city and I just didn’t know it. The soyboean oil is the same price, but for 4 gals. added on to the 1 gal we get of Wheatgerm oil, man I’d rather be buying that.

Yeah, the first horse I leased was a little old Arabian mare. She was awesome =) took me fox hunting and even to practice hunter shows (where we got bad scores thanks to people not liking my little Arab and her flippy tail), as well as dabbled in lower eventing (at age 20!) before I bought my first horse (Not Your Average Joe in my sig). Arabians and Thoroughbreds will always have a sweet spot in my heart, no doubt, they’ll be the only horses in my barn. =)