Help with circles

[Clydesdale]

Hello, I’m seeking your advice on analyzing and getting to the bottom of my horse’s turning/bending issue. Not sure if this is the best place to post this but I’ll try to keep it brief as I could go on and on.

Fergus kinda sucks at turning. Our circles are D shaped for the first few tries. In the trot you can really tell he can’t bend well clockwise for some reason.

My question really is, how long does it take to work up the fitness, flexibility, skills and know-how to get a nice round circle? From the summer I’ve noticed some progression, but it’s still not spot on (mind you I only ride 3-4 times a week) Is it normal to take awhile to achieve a good circle? Should I start ruling out physical issues? His teeth are good and he exemplifies the perfect bendy circles at the walk, but it all falls apart in the trot. Should I call in a chiropractor, or just accept that it takes time (especially for an amateur all alone). When I lunge his circles are OK.

I’m an amateur rider, have taken lessons and ridden horses for years, mostly on well schooled yet technically “unfinished” horses. I have a lot to learn as I am discovering with my new (first) horse. This guy is a 7 year old clydesdale whom I adore. I’m sure he has a bigger body and different physiology than the lighter horses I’m used to riding too. I am absolutely going to seek pro help in the spring. For now I have to get through my last semester, and the riding season is coming to a close (hence writing this lengthy post)

Fergus was only really under saddle for a season when his owner graciously sold him to me. Lots of noticeable basics covered. Exercise wise we attempt a lot of shoulder ins and outs, circles, and leg yields. In the circle I try to support with the outside rein while vibrating the inside rein, but I feel his whole body fall out if I don’t really hold onto him. That tells me I’m doing something wrong or he’s having issues.

I’ve also done a lot of reading, but my reading halted in September as my priorities had to shift towards textbooks.

Anyway sorry for the long rambling post. Any help or direction before the snow and ice flies would be great. As I said, I’m seeking out a trainer in the spring.

[RedHorses]

A couple of thoughts for you - if he truly doesn’t have trouble on the longe.

Stop holding him in. By holding you give him something to lean on and stiffen against and he will drift out.

Try riding forward. Look around the circle and ride forward. Quit micromanaging the tiny wobbles in and out. Ride forward to the bit on the track of the circle.

Once you can do that you may find he tends to drift out at the same place in the circle. That is when you get proactive and ride a little deeper bend and support with nudges from your outside leg for the few strides before his drift point. If the drift point is after the centreline in the middle of the ring you may be riding to X instead of riding the circle across X. Riding to X means your horse is not crossing X at a 90 degree angle to the centreline and he must turn more sharply to avoid running into the wall/fence. Which then leads to going straight along the wall for a few strides rather than maintaining the bend of the circle.

Do you ever do spiral circles?

[kande04]

Put cones or barrels in the corners and ride around them until he gets the idea that he needs to go around them, and then start bending him around them. Start with shallow corners and gradually move the barrels in until he has trouble keeping his balance, and that will tell you what he can physically do at this point in his training.

My horse, who is very one sided, can keep his balance on a much smaller arc going one way than the other, and the barrels in the corners have helped him develop better balance on his “stiff” side. The advantage to the barrels is that I don’t need to push him harder with the aids to try to get him to bend more, so he doesn’t brace against them, which I think has been key to developing better coordination and flexibility .

I also use barrels or cones on circles and serpentines, to help avoid making him dull to the aids as the exercises get more difficult.

[PossumHorse]

Check your balance

Speaking from experience, check your balance. I find that at least half the problem is me. Sometimes the answer is as simple as bringing my outside hip bone forward. Other times it is my whole body that is twisted. Check that you are sitting up and your hips and shoulders are on the curve of the circle. I have a bad habit of turning my head but not my body and I’m unaware of it until my horse tells me (if I’m listening to him).

[merrygoround]

It sounds as though you are attempting to bend him on the circle and maintain the bend with the reins. The reins control the had and neck, only your legs can control the body.

This also makes me wonder about the quality of your Shoulder In, as it is the the legs that maintain it.

It’s all about the legs and your position in the saddle.

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=Clydesdale;8941228]
Hello, I’m seeking your advice on analyzing and getting to the bottom of my horse’s turning/bending issue. Not sure if this is the best place to post this but I’ll try to keep it brief as I could go on and on.

Fergus kinda sucks at turning. Our circles are D shaped for the first few tries. In the trot you can really tell he can’t bend well clockwise for some reason.

My question really is, how long does it take to work up the fitness, flexibility, skills and know-how to get a nice round circle? From the summer I’ve noticed some progression, but it’s still not spot on (mind you I only ride 3-4 times a week) Is it normal to take awhile to achieve a good circle? Should I start ruling out physical issues? His teeth are good and he exemplifies the perfect bendy circles at the walk, but it all falls apart in the trot. Should I call in a chiropractor, or just accept that it takes time (especially for an amateur all alone). When I lunge his circles are OK.

I’m an amateur rider, have taken lessons and ridden horses for years, mostly on well schooled yet technically “unfinished” horses. I have a lot to learn as I am discovering with my new (first) horse. This guy is a 7 year old clydesdale whom I adore. I’m sure he has a bigger body and different physiology than the lighter horses I’m used to riding too. I am absolutely going to seek pro help in the spring. For now I have to get through my last semester, and the riding season is coming to a close (hence writing this lengthy post)

Fergus was only really under saddle for a season when his owner graciously sold him to me. Lots of noticeable basics covered. Exercise wise we attempt a lot of shoulder ins and outs, circles, and leg yields. In the circle I try to support with the outside rein while vibrating the inside rein, but I feel his whole body fall out if I don’t really hold onto him. That tells me I’m doing something wrong or he’s having issues.

I’ve also done a lot of reading, but my reading halted in September as my priorities had to shift towards textbooks.

Anyway sorry for the long rambling post. Any help or direction before the snow and ice flies would be great. As I said, I’m seeking out a trainer in the spring.[/QUOTE]

it is perfectly natural for a green horse to be stiff in one direction. While it never hurts to have his back checked for pain, really it is about training.

The aim of lateral work at this stage is to be able to control the placement of haunch and shoulders, and to be able to move the horse in and out on the circle. The suggestion to ride spiral in/out circles is a good one, provided you establish correct bend, and then ask for the movement with your leg.

It is very easy to get too “handsy” at this stage, and IME it always backfires.

I’m not clear from your description what the real problem is, however.

Do your circles fall apart because he is falling on his inside shoulder and drifting in? Or do they fall apart because he falls to the outside of the circle?

Where is his head during this, if you aren’t holding in in position? Does he counterbend to the outside of the circle, or is he bent correctly?

When you trot him down the long side, is he going straight or are his hips canted to the inside or outside? Where is his head pointing: inside, outside, straight ahead? What happens if you trot him in counter-bend, that is with his head to the outside of a circle?

The thing you need to remember is that the aim here is not to “learn how to do do circles” for a test. Rather, that aim of doing circles is to get the horse straight and gymnasticized, and the role of circles in the test is to show that the horse is in fact balanced and going correctly. So you don’t “fix your circles” by doing more circles. You use the circles to diagnose problems that are there at the walk as well as the trot, and going straight as well as turning.

The “straightness training” wesbite has some interesting-looking resources. I’ve never gone into them, because it all seems like stuff my coach has had me doin forever. I am sure you could find coaches capable of teaching this IRL (but you might have to shop around). Howver, if you are without other help, there might be some things of interest there.

[DressageTalk]

[QUOTE=PossumHorse;8941480]
Speaking from experience, check your balance. I find that at least half the problem is me. Sometimes the answer is as simple as bringing my outside hip bone forward. Other times it is my whole body that is twisted. Check that you are sitting up and your hips and shoulders are on the curve of the circle. I have a bad habit of turning my head but not my body and I’m unaware of it until my horse tells me (if I’m listening to him).[/QUOTE]

I used to think I had pretty good balance, but then I did a workout at the gym geared towards helping horseback riders. And I was SO surprised at how challenging some of the exercises were from a balance standpoint. I consider myself a relatively fit person so I never gave it much thought. But I think quite often our horses put us out of balance and we compensate in our own bodies without even realizing it, making it very difficult to achieve what we want in the saddle.