Help with collection.

[KSquared]

That was chalk full of information Bluey and I always appreciate your posts on the forum, they always have so much to gleam from them. You can be harsh at times and I didn’t find that at all to be true in this response.

Reggie is the same age as Lilly but they have two totally different stories. Reggie was started by a professional trainer and is much further along in his training. I can take him into a walk trot tomorrow and not have to worry about him and just have to remember myself. He knows what do to.

Lilly has had to be retrained and I am doing the best I can under the eyes of my trainer and I am glad to see we have improvement! That alone speaks volumes.

What I am hearing from all this is that I need to relax some more, sink into my seat and get a grip on the reins. I do tend to hold them very lightly, like they are going to break. By doing that I will be getting more contact with the horse and communicating for the better.

Aktill. Thank you for that question, it is a great one. To me, for this horse I mean that her back is rounded and she is using her hindend and her trot is not strung out, that it is a smooth even trot that has her stepping under herself, one I can sit without feeling exhausted or like a bottle of ketchup someone has shaken to get it out. I can feel the difference in both horses. The gelding, its like driving a caddy, its smooth, a good even pace, he is a western horse so he has a nice Jog. For now Lilly is still in a trot and I don’t think she is ever going to get a jog as her stride is much longer then his. She won’t be a western pleasure horse, we are aiming for Western Dressage. She is like driving an old pick up truck with no suspension through a speed bump testing zone.

[Flash44]

You both look good in this pic

September - Just riding at the farm
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps0cfc557e.jpg

She is alert, looks soft in the face, and working with her hind end engaged. Keep up with the lessons and ride ride ride ride ride, and things will fall into place.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=KSquared;7897656]
That was chalk full of information Bluey and I always appreciate your posts on the forum, they always have so much to gleam from them. You can be harsh at times and I didn’t find that at all to be true in this response.

Reggie is the same age as Lilly but they have two totally different stories. Reggie was started by a professional trainer and is much further along in his training. I can take him into a walk trot tomorrow and not have to worry about him and just have to remember myself. He knows what do to.

Lilly has had to be retrained and I am doing the best I can under the eyes of my trainer and I am glad to see we have improvement! That alone speaks volumes.

What I am hearing from all this is that I need to relax some more, sink into my seat and get a grip on the reins. I do tend to hold them very lightly, like they are going to break. By doing that I will be getting more contact with the horse and communicating for the better.

Aktill. Thank you for that question, it is a great one. To me, for this horse I mean that her back is rounded and she is using her hindend and her trot is not strung out, that it is a smooth even trot that has her stepping under herself, one I can sit without feeling exhausted or like a bottle of ketchup someone has shaken to get it out. I can feel the difference in both horses. The gelding, its like driving a caddy, its smooth, a good even pace, he is a western horse so he has a nice Jog. For now Lilly is still in a trot and I don’t think she is ever going to get a jog as her stride is much longer then his. She won’t be a western pleasure horse, we are aiming for Western Dressage. She is like driving an old pick up truck with no suspension through a speed bump testing zone.[/QUOTE]

The one horse that is professionally trained will teach you so much, he is what we call a practice horse, the one you learn yourself with.

Then, when you have that feel for what you want, then you develop the skills to teach a green horse.

Sounds like that is what you are doing and already have a trainer helping.

Can’t think of a better way to go about this.

You are right, the green horse is such a different type of horse, but you may be surprised, once you have that feel down pat from the properly trained horse, how much you can do with the other horse.

I went at this backwards, learned to start colts as an early teen, before I really knew what I was doing.
I expect my instructor used all it’s patience up those early years.
I had the get on and get going down pat, the sit back and finesse, I thought I knew, but later learned there was way more to that, oh my!

Once I learned so much more later, well, I will always wish I had someone show me that, I could have done a better job with the horses I rode long ago.

All of us have to learn some time, but it is better if we don’t have to reinvent the wheel to do that.

As for pictures, I have some really embarrassing, terrible ones.
When you have someone taking pictures that doesn’t know about horses, so is not looking for correct, you really get “the rest of the story” in them.

Glad that what I had to say is going to help you think thru that and discard what you know doesn’t apply and maybe use what could be of help.

[SuckerForHorses]

She has a lovely natural headset, the next step is working on our collection.

Forget about her head for now; it will be correct when she is correctly carrying the rest of her body.

As others have mentioned, ride the horse from back to front, using seat and leg, and doing the exercises mentioned.

[SuckerForHorses]

I am indeed bracing into my stirrups, I was having a horrible time keeping my butt in the saddle, I was bouncing so much, in reality I should have put my stirrups down a hole. I have since done so and my butt stays in the saddle now.

OP, a quick mention…once your horse IS carrying himself (herself?) correctly, you should have a much smoother ride! When my gelding is traveling stiff and strung out, I want to curl into a fetal position to protect my organs…when he gets warmed up and moving correctly, I can easily sit his trot, or at the very least, don’t feel like a fish out of water. :lol:

[KIloBright]

Not much to add to Bluey’s post, but I have copied one part, as follows
, because it shows the beginning of the extreme behind the vertical, that is evident in that first original picture in your opening post

'Then comes the fourth picture, where so much is right, the horse is much softer, stepping well under itself, trying to come up a bit in front, but is starting to cheat behind the bit if the rider doesn’t keep working with giving to hand and adding more leg and then holding a bit that energy in front, to again use more leg and giving, etc.
We can see that good picture starting to go because the horse is about to break at the third vertebrae, the poll is starting to curl, not any more the highest part."

It shows what occurred, when you moved on to a curb, riding with two hands, working on the head, before, or without the right movement from behind
Yes, the horse looks bracy, ridden with the full cheek snaffle, but the answer is not to move on to a curb, but rather to drive that horse up more with your legs and get her soft in her entire body. Less reins, more legs, and rewarding with rein lease when the horse is moving correctly