Help with Conformation - Looking to Buy

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8682443]
Anyone who says Donnerhall is not long in the back is barn blind. I am not talking about his worth as a stallion or attacking him in any way. He is long in the back, period.[/QUOTE]

I agree. He is. And that has nothing to do with performance. Some of the top horses have been long backed. Brentina looked like a sausage on legs. My first horse was super long backed (see picture) and did FEI through 28. My older mare is super long backed and straight behind (much long Donnerhall) and can collect, piaffe, and passage until the cows come home. Long backed can be good. Oh, and her old daughter has a very short neck and back and is extremely talented starting 4th level just turning 8. Her younger daughter has a very long neck, like her mom, and is maybe more talented starting 2nd just turning six.

And, going back to OP, this once again demonstrates conformation is only one small part of the whole horse that you have to put together to evaluate the whole horse for the job.

[TickleFight]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8682447]
I agree. He is. And that has nothing to do with performance. Some of the top horses have been long backed. Brentina looked like a sausage on legs. My first horse was super long backed (see picture) and did FEI through 28. My older mare is super long backed and straight behind (much long Donnerhall) and can collect, piaffe, and passage until the cows come home. Long backed can be good.

And, going back to OP, this once again demonstrates conformation is only one small part of the whole horse that you have to put together to evaluate the whole horse for the job.[/QUOTE]

You’re right. A horse dull to the aids, dragging around behind the rider’s leg, hollow, with its nose pointed out in the air is totally acceptable at first and training.

Oh wait.

What you’re implying is that Abbie S.'s horse isn’t even capable of being ridden on the bit (since she says the mare will never get beyond first level).

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=TickleFight;8682449]
You’re right. A horse dull to the aids, dragging around behind the rider’s leg, hollow, with its nose pointed out in the air is totally acceptable at first and training.

Oh wait.[/QUOTE]

Who are you responding to? Why did you quote me on conformation since what you say here has nothing to do with anything?

[TickleFight]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8682451]
Who are you responding to? Why did you quote me on conformation since what you say here has nothing to do with anything?[/QUOTE]

I responded to your previous post, #58.

Did you truly not understand my post, or are you just looking for a chance to throw in some ad hominem jabs?

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8681177]
Those are three very different types of horses. Actually Valegro is conformationally not the “ideal” for dressage, and there has been a lot of discussion about that - maybe the “ideal” needs to be revised. He has a shorter foreleg and is NOT uphill. And Totilas is more of a “square” then the desired dressage rectangle - shorter in the back then we normally look at for a dressage horse (which is probably why the collected work was SO easy for him). All three also share the common thread - excellent riding and training!

Donnerhall is very classic for a dressage horse - he is a bit longer in the back - but that generally makes an easier horse to bend, more supple, more flowing in the lateral work.

Long necks - harder to get a horse through because the horse often breaks over at the wrong spot - we end up with a collapse in the energy from hind end to mouth. Long necks are PRETTY but hard to ride. [/QUOTE]
I do agree with all you’ve said. One certainly wonders if the “ideal” should be revised and inspected… warmbloods have come such a long way in just ten years.

Just my personal experience, and take from it what you may, but it has always been easier for the shorter backed horses I’ve ridden, trained or watched to collect so long as they had ideal hind end conformation. I don’t think Totilas is a fluke in that regard: a basic understanding of biomechanics would lead anyone to come to the same conclusion, I think. In my experience it has been easier for me to get a longer backed horse to lateral work but true collection has always been a challenge. Conversely, the shorter backed horses did seem to have more resistance in lateral work at first.

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8682444]
And, no, the horse is not supposed to be on the bit at first level. They are supposed to have “developed the thrust to achieve improved balance and throughness and to maintain a more consistent contact with the bit.” at 1-2

2-3 " reliably on the bit."

3-1 " reliably on the bit "

You’re showing a lack of understanding what these terms mean and what is required at each level.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TickleFight;8682457]I responded to your previous post, #58.

Did you truly not understand my post, or are you just looking for a chance to throw in some ad hominem jabs?[/QUOTE]

Then why did you quote the post about Donnerhall? Are you deliberately misdirecting, or trying to be rude?

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8682444]
And, no, the horse is not supposed to be on the bit at first level. They are supposed to have “developed the thrust to achieve improved balance and throughness and to maintain a more consistent contact with the bit.” at 1-2

2-3 " reliably on the bit."

3-1 " reliably on the bit "

You’re showing a lack of understanding what these terms mean and what is required at each level.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TickleFight;8682449]You’re right. A horse dull to the aids, dragging around behind the rider’s leg, hollow, with its nose pointed out in the air is totally acceptable at first and training.

Oh wait.

What you’re implying is that Abbie S.'s horse isn’t even capable of being ridden on the bit (since she says the mare will never get beyond first level).[/QUOTE]

If you were responding to this, you should have quoted this. And, once again, you show a complete lack of understanding. You said a horse is supposed to be on the bit at first level. It is not. You then say a horse not off the leg with the nose out is OK, as if that is how you interpreted my quoting from the test directives?

So you think “developed the thrust to achieve improved balance and throughness and to maintain a more consistent contact with the bit.” at 1-2 means “A horse dull to the aids, dragging around behind the rider’s leg, hollow, with its nose pointed out in the air is totally acceptable at first and training.” ??? How does that make any sense?