Help with herd bound behavior

[AMWookey]

Tl:dr need help adjusting a very partnered gelding to letting my mare leave his side so I can ride her when I don’t have someone else.

I need some help. I have two horses, Huey and Greta. They have shared a paddock since 2020, first in various locations in NC and then when we moved home to Ontario, they were alone on the farm from 2022 until last march. I need suggestions for Huey. He has always been fairly attached to Greta, and it’s only gotten worse to the extreme since we have been home. We took on a companion (Peach) in March, I had hoped having peach would help but it’s still bad.

He can be separate from her (Greta)in the field, as long as he can see her, but if I pull her from the stall? Full panic. I am going to try separation outside (I.e. he can see us outside the fence with walking at first then riding) but tonight I tried just walking him alone outside, 2 to 3 minutes at a time maximum, then coming in for a cookie for everyone, 3 times. He wasn’t psychotic but also wasn’t happy. I could tell Greta would adjust.

Then I tried the same with Greta. She was completely fine being hand grazed by me, but by the time I brought her back for the 3rd time, he was stress yawning, sweating, sucking his tongue…

Should I continue with this for awhile? See if I can build up his tolerance for being away? Try and find a gelding for him to live with full time, and let Greta and Peach live together? We can’t have Peach in with them, because he is fine with one or the other, but gets aggressive and studly with both, and ran Greta to the ground.

I’m just trying to avoid ulcers and colic again, but I also can’t just stop riding Greta completely when I don’t have someone here because Huey needs to be with her. My husband and I both ride, but schedules aren’t always compatible, and we haven’t really got to seriously ride since we have been back, and I have a ring, I have jumps, I have cross country fences I am building, and I have a better schedule coming up- I want to be able to ride, but I will always put his health first.

[Simkie]

Routine, routine, routine. He’ll settle if he knows what to expect. Start with short “aways” and extend. I wouldn’t drill it…don’t repeat multiple times in the same session. It’ll just ramp his anxiety. If you want to try to move this along more quickly, take her out a few times a day, but once, and give him time to return to a chill baseline between “aways.”

He can totally handle this, but it’s something to train, just like anything else. You’ll get there!!

[AMWookey]

With that thought process, since he is better if we are in eye sight, start with small trips away from her outside the paddock, and then once that seems OK, start with in the stall, where he can’t see her as much?

Thankfully i am about to start 6 glorious weeks of leave, so it’s something I would be able to do frequently but once.

[Simkie]

I would look to aim to keep him no more than “worried” and short of “panic,” wherever that puts her.

I find it really helps to make this stuff a part of a process. I have 3 horses too, and they form this tight knit little herd. But when they know that…okay mornings are horse 1 gets groomed and worked and out, and then horse 2 gets groomed and worked and out, and then horse three gets groomed and worked and out…that helps. If there’s anything you can think of where he can be worked into the routine–like he’s groomed, then she comes out? Or he goes for a little walk? Or anything like that, where he does something he has to participate in, even if a total nothing task. Just something to sort of frame it, give him some comfort that okay hey we do a thing, and I’m a good boy, and then something happens, and then everything is okay!

[2DogsFarm]

Agree w/@Simkie, Time is your best bet for a cure.

My horse & pony are a tight little Band of 2.
Been together for 10yrs.
Mini was added 9yrs ago.
I can find the 2 in either pasture, together, 90% of the time.
Horse is Boss, decides when/where they hang out.
Mini can hang with them, or be solo, no cares.
Up until 2yrs ago my Dressage trainer came for a lesson twice a month.
Pony would come into his stall to watch (indoor attaches to barn, horses are turned out with free access to stalls), but after a while go back out to graze. Mini never seemed interested in horse going away.
I just restarted lessons last week & pony not only came in, but held a running conversation with horse.
I expect as I get back into the every other week pattern, pony’s interest/concern will fade.

[Amberley]

Time yes but I’ve found Trazadone really helps ease this process. It does cause some level of ataxia so I’m careful where I use it (not on a horse who might try to jump out or is on a hilly 100 acres) but the anti-anxiety properties are perfect for this, it helps them realize “I don’t like this much but it’s not really hurting me, I guess I can just kind of wait here by myself”. It also seems to give them the munchies which is another nice distraction- if you give a flake of alfalfa only when you take the buddy then they can start to associate some good anticipation with that too. Give it 45-60 minutes to fully kick in.

[AMWookey]

Love the alfalfa idea, I used to do it, but since moving home to Canada I have had such a struggle finding alfalfa!

My other fear is jumping out. Both of them have jumped out of their 4ft pasture before, we made the second paddock larger, but since they jumped the 4ft from a standstill… I will be happy when my gate is in and perimeter fence is up.

This morning I started small with the easiest routine there in. They prefer inside over night bc the mosquitos will carry you away, so I turned out companion pony first to her small space, then the gelding, and then my mare, and fed breakfast. Normally I would always take my gelding and mare together. I think even that small separation as part of their normal routine will be beneficial.

[Simkie]

@AMWookey

Normally I would always take my gelding and mare together. I think even that small separation as part of their normal routine will be beneficial.

This is a GREAT way to start!

[Mcl1]

I posted a thread not too long ago about the same thing and got some great suggestions, I think if you search “herd bound” it should come up. I honestly did not think I would ever be able to take my TB off the property without having to drag my mustang along but I am happy to report that it does get better!

If your mare is ok being the one left behind, I would make a point to bring the gelding out by himself and do fun things - grooming, eating, and start going on longer and longer walks with him.

The little moments of separation like you already started are definitely extremely helpful. I noticed a big difference when I made a point to start doing that.

I followed the “special” treat hay suggestion (for my guy it’s clover hay) that people gave me as well and it helped.

Another thing I have found with my guys is that leaving the one left behind in a smaller, secure area seems to make a huge difference. My mustang has a holding pen attached to their main pasture (20 ft x 50 ft) which is where he goes to eat every day. I had to take the other off the property twice - once I left the mustang locked in the holding pen with his favorite, special “treat hay” and he settled down surprisingly quickly. The next time I left him with access to their bigger pasture and my husband said he was running and screaming. He went out and put him in the holding pen and he immediately settled down and was totally fine the rest of the time. I have found the same when I ride - if given access to a bigger area, he gets himself all worked up. The holding pen is outside though and I think that makes a difference vs. being in a stall.

My property was set up by a roper so I have another holding pen/small pasture attached to the arena. When I go to ride, I just bring both and put the other in there. Although it is “enabling” them, I figure the reduced daily stress is worth it. Over time, I have found that I can ride further and further away out back as well - I can now put the mustang in the holding pen and take the TB all over the property on trail rides without issue (arena is elevated and located in a place where the mustang gets glimpses of the TB when I am out back but can’t see him the whole time).

In your case, I would definitely start with separation outside - first in sight, and then progressively further out of sight (if you can safely do it with your current fencing).

[AMWookey]

Day three update! The morning separation seems to really be helping.

The first day he was trotting, a bit worried, but calmed when she got there, but then had a worried gallop with her around the field. She was calling and banging on her door a bit in the barn, but calmed when she saw me.

Day 2 he stood quietly at the gate, and I hand grazed her a bit outside. Pre turn out, she waited at her door with her excited head bobs which sure.

Day 3 (today) I turned him out, I could feel his chill. Came back in the barn, she was patiently waiting. Went back out, let her hand graze and he was like, well fine? I am going to my grass, and took himself alone out of his paddock into his pasture.

I’m so proud of him this morning! I am thinking I may separate their stalls as well, and put the companion in the middle. Right now he is in the middle, but I need to stop coddling him so much. He can figure his life out.