Help with horse pricing

[konik]

Hello! This is my first post here, but I’ve been reading the forum for a while now and found it incredibly helpful and educational.

I currently live abroad and am planning to move back to the US this summer. I own a horse here that I like. I initially planned to sell him before leaving. However, I have to move earlier than expected and due to the pandemic it looks like it will be hard to sell a horse for a while. The shows had been canceled and most riding clubs have been closed for months now. The country’s been on a quarantine lock down for months.

So I have 2 options -

1-keep him in training here and sell eventually at a minimum price;

2-bring him with me to the US, but likely will have to sell him in a year, hence my question about sale price.

I understand that the price would vary depending on location, so even a range would be very helpful.
The horse is a 2009 warmblood gelding (sire is Quality Touch), 16.1H
He is a jumper, shown up to 1.20m with a pro, but realistically is a 0.80-1.10 amateur /kid horse.
Healthy, sound, no maintenance
Has changes, but can be sticky if not in front of the leg on the flat;
No spook, buck, perfect ground manners, etc.
Very very quiet - can be ridden in a halter, without a saddle in a field walk/trot/canter.
Very honest and forgiving of bad distances and unbalanced riders.
Can be lazy on the flat and needs a lot of leg, but wakes up jumping.
Very comfortable gates, but not a great mover

What would be a price for a horse like this in the US assuming he’d have at least a few shows here?

Thank you for your input!

P.S. I apologize if it sounds like an advertisement, it is not. I just wanted to include the details that might influence the price, so I can get most accurate input.

[Scribbler]

Currently the horse market in the USA is quite hot. I suggest you look on the sales sites “Warm bloods for sale” and others to see how he compares. Also price in transport and quarantine.

[OverandOnward]

No idea about price … but a few things to think about …

• Bringing the horse to the U.S. adds unknowns and unexpected events. Things like that tend to be expensive. No matter what the potential price in the U.S., in no way does bringing him over promise that you will be better off financially in the end.

• Given the situation - an entire situation full of unknowns, on both sides of any border - selling him now, as is, without delay, has the fewest risks. Even at a loss.

• Perhaps part of your decision is whether you feel that he would be better off here than there. That is a legitimate concern and decision point. Be honest with your feelings on this.

It is what it is. Attempting to manipulate a situation that is completely in new territory, with few predictors, isn’t likely to help you, financially, anyway.

Decide if your main reason for wanting to bring your horse to the U.S. is due to emotional reasons, rather than financial. Keeping his particular companionship, and/or ensuring his good future. There is nothing wrong with satisfying your feelings for this horse over and above your wallet, as long as it doesn’t cause you hardship. Not everything has to have a price tag on it.

Good luck to you and your horse, whatever you decide!

[Moneypitt]

A healthy competitive, proven adult jumper (1:10-1:15M) 6-13 years old, 16+ hands, Warmblood is going to start price wise in the mid five figures.

Good luck with the move.

[DawgLady]

IMO, a horse like this would sell in the low-mid fives right now. Somewhere in the ballpark of $25-40K. But it depends upon where you are. Horses in Florida are more expensive than, say, Indiana. Where exactly are you moving to?

[konik]

Thank you everyone for your input. Please keep it coming. I definitely have food for thought now and will explore import cost/process to get an idea if it’s feasible at the moment.

To answer your questions- I will be moving to the Midwest, but might move within a year.
Exploring an option to import is definitely part financial (not to make money, but at least break even while having a horse to ride for a year in the US). But it is also emotional - leaving him here without finding him a good home first is stressful… I am always very involved in every little detail of my horse’s care, so letting go of that control is hard.
I also thought that his good nature and brain would me more appreciated in the US…
Thanks again for your thoughts and good wishes.

[IPEsq]

I think for safe and not green, and not hot, that adds value even though he is best maybe not jumping that high. There are a lot of people looking for these horses. Someone here would probably ask upper 5s. But how fast he’d sell for that, hard to say. I think mid-5s would be plenty reasonable. I imagine where you are that the fence height limitation kills the price the most. But then of course you have to pay 8-10k to get him here. A lot of imports that have good brains are priced at price abroad + all import costs + some profit margin (modest to ridiculous). So you can use the first two as your goal starting price.

[fourfillies]

If you can clean up the lead changes a Hunter transition might broaden your options considerably in the US market. The market is crazy and a safe reasonably stylish 2’6” hunter with a lead change will also easily bring mid fives where I am. Not sure so much about the Midwest.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

I think you also have to consider import costs and whether it makes sense to take a few K less and sell him/her there… or spend anywhere from 5-10k to get them over and quarantined, etc. That’s if they’ll even let them come in, as I don’t know which area you’re coming from, but I know some Euro countries were a no-no for imports over the winter with all the viruses flying around.
The other thing… and I hate to admit it, flying is always a risk. I think many can attest to the fact that some horses just don’t take to the overseas flights and you may never get the same horse back. If you think you can get a decent price and aren’t looking to keep going there, I’d suggest maybe start marketing there and see what happens and use the import solution as your backup.

[dags]

Congratulations! You will be targetting our weirdest & most inconsistent market: Ch/AA Jumpers.

IMO, this is one of the toughest sells for what one would consider good money. Truth of the matter is, you don’t have to spend a lot of money to win in this division. There’s a lot of inexpensive stuff out there that could be made up as a legit competitor for these heights.

In my experience, the mid/high & high 5 figure Ch/AA Jumpers are former High Jr/AO & GP horses. They have reputations, connections, and stupid amounts of scope for mistake after mistake at 1.10m.

Mere mortals in midwestern states with standard 1.10m horses really struggle to get mid 5 figure numbers, especially on a 12 y.o. that is not already a known quantity to the trainers/buyers on those circuits.

I would work on placing him over there. By the time you go to sell here he’ll be approaching 13. You’ll have import costs, some show costs to get him seen, the unknown of a looming PPE, and possibly a commission if you don’t have the right connections. All that + risk of final sale price landing somewhere in the 20s.

[findeight]

Not a major consideration but we yanks decorate our show fences much more then the average Jumper courses over there. Fancy standards, colors, cut out designs and emblems, foliage and flowers at the base of the standards and such. Far as assuming he’d make an easy transition to a Hunter…has he ever seen a flower box? Ever seen a right off the plane import reacting to a flower box just sitting in the ring in front of a tiny crossrail?

Dont count on him being the same horse for awhile…while it schools out, it can take awhile.

A bigger consideration might be vet work, including blood tests, to import. Can get a bit pricey or give you a nasty surprise.

dags comments a few posts up on prices in the midwest is dead on, its her business to know so Id accept her knowledge.

[mika0116]

@dags & @findeight are right. A horse that is at 1.20 for a pro and really only US Ammy friendly at 1.10 and below really translates to a .90s and below horse here.

As a AA jumper rider, oooh f*ck we as a collective group are not consistent at 1.10 at all. The most disparate skills are at .90-1.15s here. You have some excellent riders moving up, you have some juniors who are all over the map, you have some AAs that are consistent and happily steady at the height with 0 intention to move up, and you have every yahoo who can’t hack it in other disciplines thinking they’re above the .80s and below relying on scope of a GP horse ‘stepping down’ to save their asses.

There is a reason I dropped to .90 and below because I was inconsistent and nervous at 1.0+ and I couldn’t afford a horse with endless scope. I’ve watched enough AA mistakes that resulted in 1.20 horses beginning to say no at even 1.0m …I already had baggage from stoppers at lower heights due to undiagnosed injury, and didn’t want to do that to myself or my lease horses.

Midwest is the cheapest part of the US. I would say if he has impressive bloodlines $30k at max, but he would have to ‘take a joke’ - meaning would be totally cool with rider errors and a relaxed guy for an Ammy or Junior to ride well in the warm-up and enjoy day to day - which seems like he is!

[freshman]

Bring him if you genuinely like him and you know you will seriously want/need to own a horse just like him immediately upon arrival in the states. Otherwise, leave him where he is and sell now at the perceived loss. Don’t choose to import him expecting to sell at a higher price in the states, even in this crazy hot market. Import costs and the hassle are no joke and he’ll need the same kind of show milage here that he also needs there to increase his value to any extent. And show miles are super spendy in the states, FYI. Meanwhile, he’s still a horse. That means he could go lame or drop dead at any moment. That would be sad if you love him and seriously annoying if you do not and were simply investing in the ride and/or sale.

It sort of sounds like you’re already sort of done with him, to be honest. I don’t mean this in a bad way! I only say this because you stated that you already planned to not only sell the horse before moving and that you will need to do so within a year from now if you do bring him to the states. Save that 10-15K on import and the many other thousands of dollars he will spend on board, vet, training, shows, and everything else in the horse biz that adds up so quick even over a short 6-12 month period and buy the horse you will need next year anyway.

[touchstone]

I agree with the bulk of these posts that importing brings with it a bunch of new costs and uncertainties and may not be worth it.

But I will offer a slightly different perspective on the Child/Adult Jumper market at the moment, as someone who has been trying to shop in it. I have not seen the types of prices described above and have instead been encountering horses–even with limited show experience or other holes–for much more. I do think some of the weirdness of today’s market will (hopefully!) settle down when everyone goes back to work and school. But maybe not.

[2nd_time_around]

As someone else who has been trying to buy in this market, I totally agree with touchstone. Prices are insanely high right now here. 25k is the pick your problem horse price, 35k is the pick your baby that’s done nothing price. That said, he won’t get here tomorrow, and it could be completely different 4-6 months from now. I think it depends on whether you want a horse when you are here, and if you have 50k right now to buy the equivalent, assuming that is what you want. I agree flying and importing brings risk, so you have to weigh all that.

[OverandOnward]

If it means anything at all … maybe just another brick on the pile of uncertainties …

There is talk that the U.S. economy is staggering back in puzzling ways not seen before in history. The Fed and economists generally are currently worried about the possibility of a late-70’s/early-80’s crazy inflationary period. If that happens it will cost more to live, and people will actually have less dollars to spend on recreations and enthusiasms.

Real estate theorists are predicting that the current price bubble for homes will pop over the summer.

BUT - no one really knows. When asked for a prediction, one economist actually said, paraphrased, ‘come to me next year, and by then hopefully I can explain this year’.

So repeating all the advice above - don’t make decisions based on expected prices in the U.S. No one knows where we will be in a few months. Make your decisions based on your needs and priorities, and your horse’s needs as well.

Hope that in a few months you will update this thread with how it all worked out for you, for your horse. Good luck to you both on the best outcome!