Help with Stadium Jumping - Rushing after fences

[Miranda_and_Oscar]

Hi all,

I have a 19 year old, 17h TB. He is a very anticipatory, hot headed horse. I got him about 8 months ago. I used to lease him a few years back and he was my soulmate horse but got sold as I was not ready for ownership at the time. When I got him a year later so he wouldn’t get sold to another stranger, he was very skinny and had no muscle. He had evented up to training level in his “past life” and I myself had taken him Beginner Novice a few years back.

Since having him, I have taken him Intro and Elementary a few times but we realized he tends to do better with larger fences (we have been doing 2’3-2’7 at home) because he respects them more rather than just launching over them.

If we trot into the jump, he tends to get too close and knock it down but if we canter, he picks up a gallop about 3-4 strides out and soars over it like its 5 feet tall and then it takes me probably close to 10 strides afterwards to get him back together again. Poles afterwards don’t do much to help (he just steps on them and kicks them around without caring much about them). I have gotten him to do a bounce but it is a HUGE bounce (meaning the space in between) or else he just knocks right thru it. I have also tried halting after jumps but that seems to just agitate him and make him more anticipatory of what is going to come next. I know he isn’t in as good of shape as he used to be (and given his age, we have arthritis medicine arriving tomorrow to help). I just got a new saddle that was recommended by a saddle fitter that came out. And a vet was out last week and said he seemed fine other than a littleeeee soreness (he is sound though) when he pushed on his front leg (which he gave me some steroid paint for- but said he was fine to ride).

Typically at events, i have enough time between fences to bring him back together. And in XC we mostly trot but we obviously have plenty of time to come back together, circle, etc. My main issue is that this weekend, we have a combined test and it is a small farm so the course is very tight. We practiced it last night and we missed every turn because he is so explosive afterwards that I cannot get him slowed down and together in time for the next fence. I have a martingale on him (he started tossing his head a few months ago) but now instead of tossing his head, he burries it into his chest.

I am continuing to work on this with my trainer but thought maybe other people had some exercises I could try when I am not having a lesson. I’m always looking for new activities to do with him as he is very smart and gets bored quickly. THANKS!

I have attempted to add a video link to our first Elementary course a few months ago but who knows if it will work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O25NmZZxqBY

[FatCatFarm]

Been there, done that and have the t-shirt. He sounds a lot like my 17hd 8 year old and with him, it’s a confidence issue. After he rushed away from a nothing fence where he took a flier, I lost a stirrup and then he took off, eventually lawn darting me leaving me with a few broken ribs in addition to various contusions. We changed his bridle and bit situation (from a Micklem and a rubber mullen mouth which he was totally grabbing and running away with; to a 11mm regular snaffle and a regular bridle with figure 8 noseband; and I bought into some sharp cheese grater strrup irons to keep my feet where they’re supposed to be); and started working more on getting him stronger in the canter and asking him to really stretch down into the canter and not be so high and tight and rushy. Working to improve the quality of his canter and getting him strong enough to slow down instead of plowing around. Ground poles; hills; trotting low fences and stopping a few strides afterwards. KISS until he’s completely comfortable and almost bored. It’s taking a long time with my guy. Big does not necessarily equate bold.

[skipollo]

I had that same type of a horse a few years ago. I was (accidentally) catching him in the mouth over fences and carrying a LOT of tension through my upper body/arms/hands. I see that in your video as well. It’s hard because your body’s natural reaction to “we’re out of control and going to fast” is to brace like that, and the horse responds accordingly, and it becomes a horrible cycle.

I spent two months walking crossrails on the buckle. I’m talking 1’ tall fences that he would approach and bolt at much worse than your horse in that video. The trick was to not try to grab him up and pull on his face after the jump even though he’s going way too fast and frantic. After a few months, he was trotting small fences on a loose rein at a normal pace. Everything was about going slow, relaxing, and leaving his face alone.

I still have him, and I’m taking him to his second Novice in a month or so. It took a long time to retrain him and myself to ride him properly to leave him alone, don’t brace/grab, and let him figure it out himself no matter how ugly it gets on the backside. His launching/knocking through things/not caring about his legs is anxiety-driven. He’s so worried and panicked that he does not care about poles or any kind of gymnastic. He wants to get through whatever he’s doing as fast as possible no matter what it takes.

If he’s scrambly/frantic on the flat, I’d start there. That’s how my horse was, so it was a lot of riding on a loose rein and leaving him alone/letting him relax in his own body and figure out his job. It helps in an indoor because no matter how quick or silly he gets, he can’t go anywhere.

[Miranda_and_Oscar]

@skipollo Thanks for the advice and it is encouraging to hear your horse is now going novice! He isn’t too bad on the flat until we canter. Once we canter, if i were to loosen my reins at the trot, he would take off into the canter again. Are you saying it’s best to let him do that and figure out it isn’t THAT fun to just canter around? He just gets so unbalanced and bolty I’m afraid he’s going to hurt himself.

[ndirish07]

Same thing here. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. When I got my horse about 18 months ago, he had sporadic training. He knew some things, or thought he knew some things, and was brave from hunting. He basically wanted to charge down to the jumps and jump them out of stride. He’s nearly 17h so BN wasn’t much of an effort, bigger fences hold him off a little more, but truly it was about his confidence. He was so unbalanced and I think almost nervous about it that he just ran. I walked a lot of jumps, and then trotted even more jumps until he realized he did not need speed to get over them. I kept things small until he was feeling better about it.

I’d also echo what others have said re holding or bracing with the reins/arms. It’s entirely against your nature because “OMG we’re going fast and I don’t think he knows where his feet are and we’re jumping,” but resist the urge to hold him with your reins or arms. I realized I had a bad pulling habit which just made him go faster. It was all about “hey hey we’re NOT running” with the rein and then letting go and softening. I’d have to do that about every other step at first. Oh and more leg. Always more leg even when they’re running. Terrifying, I know.

My horse is now going novice and can hold his canter since he’s gotten stronger and is jumping really well. I’m not saying this is your horse’s issue at all, but I had my vet inject his hocks (he’s 12) and that’s made a world of difference too in how he jumps and uses his body. I think for my horse, he was also just a little uncomfortable in his hocks and didn’t want to sit down and push off, which just went hand and hand with the canter everything out of stride approach he initially wanted to do. Just food for thought. Good luck!

[Miranda_and_Oscar]

Thanks @ndirish07! I had his hocks injected in May as they were causing him a LOT of pain. It definitely helped him rock back onto his hind end a bit more rather than sprawling himself out flat. I will try trotting him over crossrails on the buckle and see how it goes. We can’t walk jumps or else he just walks into them to knock them over so he doesn’t have to pick his feet up. He’s a smart cookie haha

[FatCatFarm]

The flat work generally fixes the jumping. Cantering around controlled and with strength takes practice and conditioning, and effort. Much easier to just plow around on the forehand so horses resist, because doing it correctly is well, hard. Definitely try to diffuse the tension. I’m working on this as well. My horse can do all the movements of our dressage test very well, but string them together and expect a certain response, say transition from canter to trot at B, and he struggled with that, wanting to canter just straight on and run through the turn to C rather than transition down then turn. I would get frustrated and tense and my shoulders would creep up to my ear lobes and be completely counter productive.

This translated into him blasting off after jumps and running out at jumps and also taking off, particularly if there was a turn after a jump. It’s still sometimes his go to maneuver when he doesn’t feel like working.

My horse goes much better on a bit longer rein, encouraging him to stretch over his back. Instead of becoming tense, I concentrate on releasing my shoulders and having floaty forearms. Leg yield is your friend. Push him over and ask him to use himself and think about where he is putting his feet. I am also currently practicing my dressage in my jump saddle with a longer stirrup. It has me sitting over my hips and heels better so doesn’t invite me into a driving seat which is not what my horse needs right now. I also found that turning my upper body more into my circles helped with my horse’s body mechanics.

We’ve trotted and cantered ground poles with lots of low wide hands; then low jumps the same way. After I came off and broke my ribs, I free longed him in side reins while I couldn’t ride and I think that also helped. Longe him over ground poles and let him figure out how to carry himself over them. Round pens are a huge help here as you don’t have to worry about being yanked around at the end of a longe line.

After I was able to ride but was still a bit ouchy. I continued starting out our riding sessions by longeing him in side reins before I got on. I would let him do a few turns in both directions without the side reins first, then in side reins and let him carry himself for a bit. I do think it helped quite a bit.

It takes some horses a great deal of time to be strong enough to carry themselves in a slow relaxed canter under saddle. It’s a real exercise in patience and persistence.

[Miranda_and_Oscar]

@FatCatFarm I wish desperately that we had a round pen but we do not. I could probably make one by setting jumps up as a fence to block part of the arena. I am going to switch our bit for a while and try letting him figure out the poles/crossrails on his own for a bit. Thanks!

[mmeqcenter]

@skipollo

I had that same type of a horse a few years ago. I was (accidentally) catching him in the mouth over fences and carrying a LOT of tension through my upper body/arms/hands. I see that in your video as well. It’s hard because your body’s natural reaction to “we’re out of control and going to fast” is to brace like that, and the horse responds accordingly, and it becomes a horrible cycle.

I spent two months walking crossrails on the buckle. I’m talking 1’ tall fences that he would approach and bolt at much worse than your horse in that video. The trick was to not try to grab him up and pull on his face after the jump even though he’s going way too fast and frantic. After a few months, he was trotting small fences on a loose rein at a normal pace. Everything was about going slow, relaxing, and leaving his face alone.

This. All of this. This was my immediate reaction to your video, and a good way to approach the issue.

I also note that you’re not actually trotting jumps. You’re trotting, then letting him pick up the canter two strides out. It’s exacerbating your problem, you’re literally teaching him it’s okay to speed up to jumps. He’s not rushing after fences, as your thread title says, he’s rushing before, through, and away from them.
Did he do this when you leased him?
Does he rush through just a set of trot poles?

At 19 I’m inclined to say this is a confidence issue due to pain, arthritic or otherwise. You had his hocks injected because they were significantly hurting him - he may be experiencing residual memories of that pain and trying to avoid it. Also, you said he came to you skinny with no muscle. I’d perhaps focus on your dressage/flat work for a few months, address any additional physical concerns and improve his strength, then approach jumping again.

[DunByMistake]

This is my guess - when he was sold to other person, that person hung on for dear life over every jump with the reins and your horse started worrying that he wasn’t going to be able to use his neck over jumps. To get away from the restrictive hand, he went faster instead of just stopping. I retrained a mare a few years ago who had that problem. She was even more terrifying than your horse - she would stick her nose in air, brace the muscle on the underside of her neck and BOLT. As in, you couldn’t stop, you couldn’t turn - you just prayed that she didn’t catch a leg and flip you both. When I took over the ride, she had a neck like a bull.

I basically restarted her jumping. We did trot rails then canter rails. She would try and run away from me on the canter rails but I went against every instinct in my body and didn’t grab her mouth. If we went a little faster than we needed to, well that was ok for now. The arena fence is 5 feet high - she couldn’t really go anywhere. So we cantered rails until she figured out that she wasn’t going to get her mouth sawed on every time. Then we walked into cross rails and I would let her pick up trot the last few strides. She still took a few flyers but I gave the largest release possible every single time. Even if we went too fast, I would basically throw my reins away so I wouldn’t catch her in the mouth. Then on landing, I would just calmly pick up contact and make circle until we were going a more agreeable pace. Then we started to canter in. The first few were a bit quick but I just kept throwing reins away and she figured out that she wasn’t going to be punished for jumping. And her jump form improved also because she could actually use her neck! Now I would describe her as a 2’6" - 2’9" packer - if you can steer and kick, she will take you over any jump at an appropriate pace.

I know it goes against every self preservation instinct in your body, but you need to give him more release. Start extremely small - like rails on ground or walking into small jumps and teach him that you won’t punish him for jumping. Do it somewhere with a fenced arena so that he can’t really get going anywhere. Hopefully he’ll figure it out quickly as he wasn’t with his former owner too long.

[Miranda_and_Oscar]

@mmeqcenter Thanks for your response. He has put on a ton of weight and muscle since I got him and we did flat work for quite a while before introducing any jumps. We typically do a mix of trotting and cantering into the jumps (like I said, when he trots, we often end up taking most of the jump down with us). I do know that he rushes into them and through them as well and we have been working on it and have been getting better but that is more manageable for me than the rushing afterwards, especially given that I know our course this weekend is going to be tight.

He has always been a forward mover, even when I leased him. And when I leased him, I thought he rushed but now looking back at videos, it is not nearly as rushed as now. But again, I also have no idea what happened to him and what experiences he had in that year that he was away from me. Trot poles he rushes occasionally if he realizes his spacing is not exact because that makes him nervous. His old owner who I leased him from said the arthritis medicine helped him tremendously and it arrives tomorrow so hopefully that will help!

[Miranda_and_Oscar]

@DunByMistake Thanks for your advice! His owner for that year said she didn’t jump or canter him much at all. She was using him for Beginner lessons. So while nobody was yanking him over jumps, it is entirely possible that it occurred during flat work. And I know I am not blameless in that department. I have known Oscar for around 4 years (maybe more) and I still get nervous and tighten up (though less often that I used to). So I don’t want to blame anyone for issue that I very well have contributed to. I will try your suggestions though! Thanks!

[skipollo]

@Miranda_and_Oscar

@skipollo Thanks for the advice and it is encouraging to hear your horse is now going novice! He isn’t too bad on the flat until we canter. Once we canter, if i were to loosen my reins at the trot, he would take off into the canter again. Are you saying it’s best to let him do that and figure out it isn’t THAT fun to just canter around? He just gets so unbalanced and bolty I’m afraid he’s going to hurt himself.

Not being able to loosen the reins at the trot because he calls into a canter is like riding with the e-brake on. He can’t carry himself and can’t balance at all and is relying on momentum to not fall down. This was another downfall of mine. I did a LOT of walking up and down hills on the buckle. Like months and months and months before his canter wasn’t a crooked train wreck with legs going everywhere. I’ll get you some before and after videos when I’m home from work so you can see how he carries himself and how I ride differently now vs then.

If you loosen the reins and he canters off dont get mad. Being him back to a trot quietly without gripping his face hard (hold with your abs and your thigh) and once he trots let go of his face again. He will figure out that relaxation is the answer. Once he can relax you’ll be amazed at how fast he can improve.

Update: here are videos for reference.

Old videos:

https://www.facebook.com/victoriamagliaro/videos/vb.1209045781/10204300746578004/?type=3&theater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpn40GwddHE

New videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7uaL8bt-IY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqmemox6MCg

And for fun because we were at the same show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDY4rPibsqU

(I’m the one that threw up right after stadium)

[Marigold]

@skipollo

Not being able to loosen the reins at the trot because he calls into a canter is like riding with the e-brake on.

This is a great analogy, thanks for sharing!

Also wanted to congratulate you on your success - the change is impressive, and you guys look great! Definitely worth all those months.