Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

[Scribbler]

Yeah well if you cant progress past your first round pen experience with a given horse you aren’t much good with horses. Don’t make it into a pretend qualification.

We have a thing in North America called a three day trainer challenge. Raw range horses are brought in and assigned at random to half a dozen colt starters. This is done in front of an audience. The winner is the one who can get the horse going quietly under saddle

The whole concept is a bit problematic but the fact it’s done in front of an audience precludes too much force or anger. It’s really interesting to watch how fast a quietly handled horse can progress.

Anyhow I have more respect for a good colt starter than for someone who just videos his first interactions with hot stallions.

And it’s not that impressive. It’s not going anywhere or building to anything by your own admission. It’s just show off ego. For the human.

It’s not even a quick fix. Its one show off moment. Most of us are in this long term and measure out training progress in years

[candyappy]

@Janet

I think the idea that one must master OTHER arts BEFORE interacting with horses is absurd.

If I had to do that I still would be waiting to learn to ride. I didn’t want to do anything but ride a horse since as far back as I can remember( 4 or 5 ). I learned at 10 from a neighbor girl with 2 welsh ponies. I had zero skills in any other activity…

Here I am 50 years older, still riding my horses and still have not mastered any other skills

[StB.YM]

I’m curious @Benv - have you watched Warwick Shiller’s videos, old and new? What are your thoughts? If I had to pick between Hempfling and WS, I would pick WS. You keep noting that no one is addressing your posts the way you want them to, but the problem that I see is that what you are sharing isn’t really all that novel, surprising, or even impressive. When other posters bring that up, you are unwilling to acknowledge that.

As an aside, there really isn’t anything truly novel about someone with good horse sense handling a horse others would deem difficult, with ease. Or changing how a horse moves forward just from one ride. I watched my trainer’s first ride on a client horse (I had known horse and client for years from another barn). In less than 30 minutes she had him working over and through his back properly, and doing so while cantering him with the reins dropped. I was pretty impressed (especially since I knew the horse’s history) but my trainer noted what she was doing was fairly simple and anyone who can ride just from their seat should be able to do so. It looked impressive to me because my experience - and exposure to different trainers - was so limited at that point (I was also a fairly new client of this trainer).

[Montanas_Girl]

@Benv

There is no training or repetition - and therefore also no advice in the sence you have from other horse trainers in the pressure-release style.

Every interaction with horses is training. Period. There is no getting around it. What your “master” is showing may be poor training (teaching horses to rear and display other aggressive behaviors), but it is still training.

Pressure and release is how horses learn. This is a fundamental fact that must be understood by anyone who hopes to ever accomplish something with horses. Sometimes the pressure is mental, and sometimes it is physical, but without it, there is no cue for the horse to respond to.

[findeight]

Well, looks like the suggestion to proofread and clean up the English has been incorperated going by the latest posts by OP so theres that.

[BrownDerby]

@Scribbler

Yeah well if you cant progress past your first round pen experience with a given horse you aren’t much good with horses. Don’t make it into a pretend qualification.

If you want to see round penning done to perfection just watch a mare school her foal.

[Benv]

After reexamining our conversation and the claims regarding Hempfling’s involvement, I feel it is necessary to state unequivocally that, as I know his personality and ways, Hempfling would never participate in such discussions by either commenting on the work of others or defending his own. I now realize that I inadvertently engaged in this behavior myself, although it was never my intention.

Hempfling’s primary focus is on coaching and consulting, which has always been the case. The horses serve as visual representations of what can be achieved through personality and character. In his communication about his work with horses, he solely shows what he himself is doing. You will not find him commenting on the work of other trainers or riders, or in any way implying that anyone should follow what he does.Which is probably to a large extent the reason he is not known to many today. If you carefully examine the videos we are discussing, you will notice that they simply demonstrate his own work without referring to other approaches or solutions or recommending anyone to do that.

It is extremely important for me to stress that, from his character, Hempfling would never engage in anything of this nature. I feel a strong sense of responsibility to make this perfectly clear within this context.

[findeight]

@Benv

to state unequivocally that, as I know his personality and ways

So….You live with him? Work for him? Speak for him officially or are you him?

[Benv]

@findeight

@Benv

to state unequivocally that, as I know his personality and ways

So….You live with him? Work for him? Speak for him officially or are you him?

I am his client and I follow his teaching for many years. I do not speak for him officially and what I want to say here - and I am quite sure it was clear - that this type of communication will never come from him or on his behalf.
Once again it was never my interntion to evaluate his skills - nevertheless that is was the develompment and I am currently describing his work from a perspective of his client, to the best of my knowledge, which I would consider rather good. And part of this knowledge is that he would never defend his work or comment on other approaches. I hope I could make myself clear.

[skydy]

I’m not at all surprised that the “master” doesn’t communicate with experienced horse trainers or riders.

[Benv]

@Montanas_Girl

Every interaction with horses is training. Period. There is no getting around it. What your “master” is showing may be poor training (teaching horses to rear and display other aggressive behaviors), but it is still training.

Pressure and release is how horses learn. This is a fundamental fact that must be understood by anyone who hopes to ever accomplish something with horses. Sometimes the pressure is mental, and sometimes it is physical, but without it, there is no cue for the horse to respond to.

This is probably summarizing our different opinions in the best way. If you percieve what I am showing as some sort of pressure and release or other repetative training it is missing completely what it is and what I am expressing. And this is fine and good to have it so clear.

[AMackechnie]

Yes, indeed. He would be eaten alive.

[Montanas_Girl]

@Benv

This is probably summarizing our different opinions in the best way. If you percieve what I am showing as some sort of pressure and release or other repetative training it is missing completely what it is and what I am expressing.

“Pressure and release” is how horses react to their environment. There is no “opinion” involved here. You may choose to ignore the cues the horses are responding to, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

[Benv]

@Alterration

I had heard of Hempfling before. You may be referring to some other posters who hadn’t.

I must have been mixing things up. My appologies.

@Alterration

Parelli was a bestselling author, as was Monty Roberts. Then the horse community in general, learned that horses would perform join up with an RC car, and Parelli went off the rails with more than a few things.

I would actually be curious to know is what way they went off. I don’t know too much about them and you are much better informed. They are in mind the beginning of the natural horsemanship from what I hear - what has changed? Have they lost their name, the clients, their methods stopped working for poeple?

[Montanas_Girl]

“Pressure and release” example: This is my riding horse moving her yearling half sister exactly where she wants to put the youngster, without ever offering an ounce of true aggression:

IMG_2322

[Benv]

@StB.YM

I’m curious @Benv - have you watched Warwick Shiller’s videos, old and new? What are your thoughts? If I had to pick between Hempfling and WS, I would pick WS. You keep noting that no one is addressing your posts the way you want them to, but the problem that I see is that what you are sharing isn’t really all that novel, surprising, or even impressive. When other posters bring that up, you are unwilling to acknowledge that.

I have taken a look - and this to me at first glance looks very similar to other pressure and release natural horsmanship methods. I have tried to explain the difference betwee this and what Hempfling is doing - quoted below.
So in my eyes it not comparable since it is not a different kind of the a similar approach - it is different. There is a reason there is no tutorials - because there is no method. It is the personality you should be developing. You may or may not relate to it - but this would be my view at comparing the two ways.

@Benv

There are multiple mentions of liberty training that is indeed quite common today and you see what Hempfling is doing as liberty because it looks similar to you. There have been some comments like “it will be very diffuclt to change this taught behaviour” I think in the context of the rearing and turning horses. I understand why it looks similar to you - however this is a complete misunderstanding of how he is working with horses. There is no training or repetition - and therefore also no advice in the sence you have from other horse trainers in the pressure-release style. It is purely based on personality, on a level high enough to match and finally develop that of the horse. It is genuine leadership - it is not training by repetition.
The horses respond in the second they meet him - without prior training - which prooves with facts that it is not a taught behaviour (and therefore the claim that it is difficult to change is not realisitic). In the vidoe I link in the end, you can see that the horse taken out of the stable for the first time - there is an entire miliraty depertment watching, it is not setup (though you are free to believe so, if you prefer to igonre the facts). It is in a stud farm, so yes the stallion is excited, it is normal for an animal and this is absolutely not the main point - if you still choose to comment of this.

In contrast to this free communication and leadeship that contributes to the development of the horse the liberty videos you show and are common today are a result of training, teaching cues and repetition. It is in my eyes a circus act and to achieve this people mimic predator behaviour in one way or the other, frocing the horse phycologically if not physically to consistently perform.
Someone mentioned earlier that he might not be able to bring a horse to perform concistently for a show - and thisabsolutely true since there is not dressage and the horse is always allowed to express itself.

[skydy]

@Benv

@Scribbler

Hempfling may have been ahead of the curve in playing with liberty work and bridleless riding. But that has become extremely popular in the last decade or so. As the other videos show, there are extremely accommplished trainers doing liberty and tack free riding today at a level way beyond anything Hempfling attempted or accomplished.

If you looked at the videos we posted you’d see that. It’s really a whole discipline in itself now. Things are way beyond Hempfling.

There are multiple mentions of liberty training that is indeed quite common today and you see what Hempfling is doing as liberty because it looks similar to you. There have been some comments like “it will be very diffuclt to change this taught behaviour” I think in the context of the rearing and turning horses. I understand why it looks similar to you - however this is a complete misunderstanding of how he is working with horses. There is no training or repetition - and therefore also no advice in the sence you have from other horse trainers in the pressure-release style. It is purely based on personality, on a level high enough to match and finally develop that of the horse. It is genuine leadership - it is not training by repetition.
The horses respond in the second they meet him - without prior training - which prooves with facts that it is not a taught behaviour (and therefore the claim that it is difficult to change is not realisitic). In the vidoe I link in the end, you can see that the horse taken out of the stable for the first time - there is an entire miliraty depertment watching, it is not setup (though you are free to believe so, if you prefer to igonre the facts). It is in a stud farm, so yes the stallion is excited, it is normal for an animal and this is absolutely not the main point - if you still choose to comment of this.

In contrast to this free communication and leadeship that contributes to the development of the horse the liberty videos you show and are common today are a result of training, teaching cues and repetition. It is in my eyes a circus act and to achieve this people mimic predator behaviour in one way or the other, frocing the horse phycologically if not physically to consistently perform.
Someone mentioned earlier that he might not be able to bring a horse to perform concistently for a show - and thisabsolutely true since there is not dressage and the horse is always allowed to express itself.
As for the students, if you would for a moment assume that what I describe is the case, it is difficult to transmit since it is the presence and the personality of the person that one needs to learn, and not technical movements. And this is not a short fix that most horse people are looking for and it takes more than most people are willing or able to invest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tC1dTxJ2qI&ab_channel=KlausF.Hempfling

Stallion handlers do this on a daily basis during breeding season (except for the weird posturing by this person, I’ve never seen anyone do that.) Good handlers don’t use such exaggerated body language. There is nothing impressive in this video to anyone who has experience with breeding stallions.

Beginners who have no experience with stallions may think that this guy has psychic horse powers, but to anyone with experience it just looks silly.

That’s an awful lot of hoopla surrounding a person leading a horse out of a barn. That’s all that happened in that video.

[findeight]

@Benv

what I am expressing. And this is fine and good to have it so clear.

By “ What I am expressing” do you mean what you are sharing or what you are demonstrating in the videos?

Most professional horsemen don’t let clients discuss them by name in detail on social media without prior content approval.

[Benv]

My gerenal feeling is that here part of what I am writing are taken out of context. However I will try to see if this is a matter of my misunderstanding.

@Scribbler

Yeah well if you cant progress past your first round pen experience with a given horse you aren’t much good with horses. Don’t make it into a pretend qualification.

I haven’t said this is the end of the work with the horse. It was mentioned that the horses are trained to respond to something - this is an example of a horse responding perfectly from the start. To eliminate the doubt that the horse was taught to do something. If I was not clear I hope now I am.

@Scribbler

And it’s not that impressive. It’s not going anywhere or building to anything by your own admission. It’s just show off ego. For the human.

It’s not even a quick fix. Its one show off moment. Most of us are in this long term and measure out training progress in years

Just to understand I udnerstand you right. This horse could not be handled by a lot of experiences trained horse people, who’s profession is to train and ride horses. Here you see a man that doesn’t know the horse handling it in a way such that the horse is responding purely to body languege. By saying this is not impressive are you implying that anyone/ many people can do that?

[Montanas_Girl]

@Benv

It was mentioned that the horses are trained to respond to something - this is an example of a horse responding perfectly from the start.

If you handle horses correctly, most of them “respond perfectly from the start”. As a breeder, I can attest to that. My babies will stand to be haltered, hosed off, fly sprayed, and clipped by the time they are a month old. Not because I drill those skills but because I understand how to read their body language and use mine to instill confidence in them.

Again, this is NOT rocket science. It’s basic horsemanship.