Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

[Scribbler]

@Benv

My gerenal feeling is that here part of what I am writing are taken out of context. However I will try to see if this is a matter of my misunderstanding.

@Scribbler

Yeah well if you cant progress past your first round pen experience with a given horse you aren’t much good with horses. Don’t make it into a pretend qualification.

I haven’t said this is the end of the work with the horse. It was mentioned that the horses are trained to respond to something - this is an example of a horse responding perfectly from the start. To eliminate the doubt that the horse was taught to do something. If I was not clear I hope now I am.

@Scribbler

And it’s not that impressive. It’s not going anywhere or building to anything by your own admission. It’s just show off ego. For the human.

It’s not even a quick fix. Its one show off moment. Most of us are in this long term and measure out training progress in years

Just to understand I udnerstand you right. This horse could not be handled by a lot of experiences trained horse people, who’s profession is to train and ride horses. Here you see a man that doesn’t know the horse handling it in a way such that the horse is responding purely to body languege. By saying this is not impressive are you implying that anyone/ many people can do that?

In this I disagree. He’s not doing anything beyond what most liberty trainers do. Now, he’s doing it badly. He’s pressuring the horse to rear and act out by giving it conflicting cues. That makes the horse look “wild” to the audience. Then he runs it around.

The difference is that good horsemanship doesn’t involve putting mixed message pressure on the horse to get it angry for the video. Good horsemanship is super quiet and boring to watch.

We can see the cues. We can read human and horse body language. I dare say we are mostly better horse people than Hempfling now that I’ve seen his videos. They just aren’t of interest to anyone today.

[Montanas_Girl]

@Scribbler

Good horsemanship is super quiet and boring to watch.

We can see the cues. We can read human and horse body language. I dare say we are mostly better horse people than Hempfling now that I’ve seen his videos.

Exactly! 100%

[Benv]

@findeight

@Benv

what I am expressing. And this is fine and good to have it so clear.

By “ What I am expressing” do you mean what you are sharing or what you are demonstrating in the videos?

Most professional horsemen don’t let clients discuss them by name in detail on social media without prior content approval.

Specifically here I refer to the text I quoted just below - this was so far clear I believe.

What I am saying here is not new or confidential and basicaly tries to convey the difference as I see it between Hempflings work and most of what is presented here. I have the belief this is in accordance with what he is explaining, but this my interpretation. I have also made it clear sevral times in this conversation.

[Scribbler]

@Benv

@findeight

@Benv

what I am expressing. And this is fine and good to have it so clear.

By “ What I am expressing” do you mean what you are sharing or what you are demonstrating in the videos?

Most professional horsemen don’t let clients discuss them by name in detail on social media without prior content approval.

Specifically here I refer to the text I quoted just below - this was so far clear I believe.

What I am saying here is not new or confidential and basicaly tries to convey the difference as I see it between Hempflings work and most of what is presented here. I have the belief this is in accordance with what he is explaining, but this my interpretation. I have also made it clear sevral times in this conversation.

But since you describe yourself as a novice naive former rider, do you even see the cues? Know what collection is? Know how to do groundwork? I mean given how you introduce yourself, I doubt you can look at the videos and see what’s happening beyond the bombastic voiceover.

[strangewings]

@Benv

about the content of the article not about the author. And

There is no meaningful content in the linked fb post. Whatever point the author is trying to make is not coming through because it is written in such generic language, no one can really disagree, but then it is totally unclear what his philosophy is offering that is new or unique. E.g. The horse is not an inanimate piece of sports equipment: true, and this is a day 1 lesson every kid gets that is reinforced severely, as needed. People build personal development programs around interactions with horses, so that relationship is well known too.

If his philosophy is really that we shouldn’t interact with horses until we are fit, mature, and emotionally centered, this should be presented in terms of the ethical considerations of working with horses, not as a training philosophy.

Similarly, I tried watching some of the posted videos and had no idea what point they were trying to make about training philosophy or approach to working with horses. I can’t tell at all what training outcome he is trying to demonstrate. Compare these to the posted Elisa Wallace video where she explains both what and why she is doing what she’s doing.

[Benv]

@Scribbler

But since you describe yourself as a novice naive former rider, do you even see the cues? Know what collection is? Know how to do groundwork? I mean given how you introduce yourself, I doubt you can look at the videos and see what’s happening beyond the bombastic voiceover.

I do. I am not working with horses however I have tried to do so for many years - so yes.

[Benv]

@strangewings

If his philosophy is really that we shouldn’t interact with horses until we are fit, mature, and emotionally centered, this should be presented in terms of the ethical considerations of working with horses, not as a training philosophy.

It seems like you have understood the point. I am not sure why you are saying it was presented as a training philosophy.

@strangewings

Similarly, I tried watching some of the posted videos and had no idea what point they were trying to make about training philosophy or approach to working with horses. I can’t tell at all what training outcome he is trying to demonstrate.

The sole reason for the videos getting into this topic is that people deemed in necessary to evauate the skills of the authour of the essay and not the content. So this was my reponse. However I fully agree that this was not necessary to discuss the first point you brought here - which was basically my intention in the first place.

[Montanas_Girl]

@Benv

I am not working with horses however I have tried to do so for many years - so yes.

Then you need to locate a more capable trainer. It shouldn’t take “many years” to establish basic horse handling skills. I’m very sorry that you’ve been led to believe otherwise.

[strangewings]

@Benv

seems like you have understood the point. I am not sure why you are saying it was presented as a training philosophy.

Ah, this is partly my mistake - I thought we were in the dressage forum, and also I assumed his objective with the videos and books was to teach people something about his way of interacting with horses, which for most people includes training them.

I will say though that I extracted that point from comments in this thread, not from the Facebook post.

[Benv]

@Montanas_Girl

Then you need to locate a more capable trainer. It shouldn’t take “many years” to establish basic horse handling skills. I’m very sorry that you’ve been led to believe otherwise.

I belive you have good intention by sharing this advice. However I belive we have a conceptually different view and I have tried to explain. It is not my intention to change your ways, it is currently the opposite that you suggest.
To make clear I am not alone in my opinion. I understand that the memebers of this forum have a uniform opinion, which is fine and you are welcome to follow it. There are however millions who percieve the work Hempfling is doing in a similar way to what I do. Which is expessed in this kind of comments:

“No matter from which perspective we look at the video (for there are many), i find it beautiful.
The spoken words focus on the incredibly subtle technique, i however believe we can also look at it like: human and horse are authentically connected, and both take their rightful place in the Natural Order. The technique fuctions only as a bridge of communication.
Both respect each other, and the vulnerability is simply a fundamental part of being together this way. Because there is no place for force or manipulation. Seen this way i dare to say this way of living is 1:1 transferrable to being amongst humans. If humanity would understand that true strength and power comes not from stuff like status, money pressure and manipulation, (which i believe is a short-term illusion), but through being authentically connected. That would be the way of Nature. I think that is the core of what Mr Hempfling is tying to teach. We need to look beyond thinking it is “horse training”…”

“So thankful for the visdom and teaching of Klaus. Both from studing his books and films and eapecually from the Compact schoolings I attended. He learned it all from the horses because he was open for it and not schooled in the conventional horseworld. He is teaching the brilliant ease wich is so hard to reach because we first have to unlearn, the truth that it is all about us working on mastering ouselves - not the horse - our mind, body and spirit, to connect with nature, to be authentic and take good care of all living creatures.The are strong powers that want us to stay in a stage where we are easy to manipulate, and the exploitation goes on.”

[Montanas_Girl]

@Benv

However I belive we have a conceptually different view and I have tried to explain.

I guess we do. My “view” is that horses should be handled in a way that is effective, safe, humane, and productive. Yours is the polar opposite.

[Benv]

@strangewings

Ah, this is partly my mistake - I thought we were in the dressage forum, and also I assumed his objective with the videos and books was to teach people something about his way of interacting with horses, which for most people includes training them.

I will say though that I extracted that point from comments in this thread, not from the Facebook post.

I fully agree we have deviated quite far from the original idea. And thank you for the comment!

[Bluey]

@Montanas_Girl

I guess we do. My “view” is that horses should be handled in the way that is effective, safe, humane, and productive. Yours is the polar opposite.

I am getting the impression that fellow and his followers are not real horse people, they are after some mystical bond in ethereal space and horses are mere props for that.

Not at all what most here are, that have a passion for horses and want to know more and do more with them as the individuals and species they are in themselves, as partners in what we do in our lives, not as part of some human fantasy world.

[SusanO]

Tell me you don’t know anything about handling horses without saying you know nothing about horses. I will spend my time studying people that have achieved more than a coffee table book.

[skydy]

@Bluey

I am getting the impression that fellow and his followers are not real horse people, they are after some mystical bond in ethereal space and horses are mere props for that.

It seems that way to me too. A psychic and “spiritual” method of leading a horse out of a barn?

Of course the “master” has spiritual powers regarding horses that are supposedly unique to him, and thus he can get away with not having any accomplished students or accomplishments himself (other than writing a book) and an excuse for being unable to really teach lesser mortals. It’s a very common claim by would- be cult leaders.

[findeight]

[quote=“Benv, post:330, topic:785605”]. I understand that the memebers of this forum have a uniform opinion…
[/quote]

We do? I think you are under the misconception that we are a tight knit group of those who think alike.

The hell we are. We just happen to have similar experiences and opinions on this topic. Otherwise we are very different in age, background and preferred discipline…and we most certainly do NOT blindly follow or agree with other regulars on here. Fact we fight like barn cats.

So whether we ride Dressage, Hunter/Jumper, Reining, Western Pleasure, gallop breed and/or train race horses? This is one of the rare times we all see the same old, same old, self styled guru reinventing basic horse handling and reselling the oft sold “secrets”. Some that likely were first sold by a traveling “master” in a chariot stable at base of the Great Pyramid when it was new. Didn’t help charioteers then any more then it helps riders today. But it looks pretty…with a bit of a sexual overtone I don’t care for.

No thanks.

[chestnutmarebeware]

@Benv

. There are however millions who percieve the work Hempfling is doing in a similar way to what I do. Which is expessed in this kind of comments:

MILLIONS? Seriously?

[chestnutmarebeware]

I’d be willing to bet that these people never actually ride their horses.

[Scribbler]

Hempfling has about zero traction in the horse world. Follow on social media is meaningless. I follow so much random stuff I forget about. It’s engagement, views and comments that matter. Hempfling has none it sounds like.

[findeight]

The mark a of shyster is telling those who are skeptical its their fault or lack or their own lack of knowledge that blocks understanding and only embracing (and paying money to) the teachings of THE MASTER will allow them to understand and achieve unity with whatever the master is selling and the naive are seeking. Cult like. One does not question THE MASTER, just accept their words as gospel.