Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

One example of what you presents, I was taught to start horses under saddle by teaching them the standard series of tricks, stretch, bow, knee, lay down, sit up and stand up, along with the spanish walk.
Teaching and doing that was fun for us and the horses, that would offer at times some of those behaviors when it was time to be put up to keep us working, not end the fun.

Those were taught not for the tricks, but because it was one more way to readily show the trainer what kind of horse it was working with and how to approach training better for that horse and taught the horses that humans were working with them with purpose.
That helped their focus on the tasks at hand, not to just react to humans strange ways by rote.
Those tricks also taught horses the very important body awareness type horses donā€™t pay much attention to naturally, to manage in the human world with purpose, not just wander around and bang into things or other beings around them.
We also taught them thru the traditional English discipline training scales, dressage basics of long and low and stretching into hand, cavalletti and jumping gymnastics and to trail ride and eventually some training for endurance rides.

Then I went to a different riding center that was mostly performance directed in the traditional English riding disciplines with way more emphasis in the technical parts.
There first colt I started and was teaching spanish walk I was told summarily that was not acceptable, as it was a disuniting movement and contrary to the dressage goal of ultimate collection.
I followed their wishes and learned so much there, but in a different way.
That was over half a century ago and today, surprise, to ā€œdisuniteā€ a horse is to teach them to be aware of all the parts, be able to use themselves in many ways other than just towards one ultimate single goal, now the spanish walk is not evil disruptor, but one more cross training tool.

Now, it still holds that you donā€™t want to promote the wrong muscle and nerve memory for a special task, it would make it harder for the horse to perform correctly if it is not properly trained and fit for job at hand.
When we teach something we need to be aware of what else we want to ask of the horse later and adjust that knowledge to how we build to it.
You donā€™t take a dressage or western pleasure well trained horse to a competitive endurance ride, or a race horse right off its last race to a three day event.

My point, depends on our goals what and how we will do this or that with our horses.
It is important when we see what others do, to give them a break, if we like what they do or not, to LEARN more about what they do and why and understand how that fits in todayā€™s world, not deride them offhand because is not what we do.
In that vein, what this fellow under discussion here does, well, what he does with horses evidently fit what some get out of their involvement with horses and why not?
The disagreement is when he, as told repeatedly, insist his way is the only, the best, the most unique, correct, perfect way, all else wrong.
That is ā€¦ unimaginative is the nicest adjective I can think. :upside_down_face:

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When a person beleeeves that a horse is being wrongly used/trained itā€™s kinda hard to suspend judgement and go: Oh wellā€¦to each her0wn.

(and i think some animal trainers deserve the judgeyness).

This guy here, i think of him like: First, do no harm. He might be bilking naive budding horsepeople, but where is the harm? I feel the same way about the traveling horse witch and many other gurus. Gotta admit that Clinton Anderson bothers me more than most however. Mostly because he has so very many first-time-horse-owner mustang adopters starry-eyed and the horses end up in the butcher-pipeline.

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We didnā€™t go out searching for this dude who is pretty much dormant on the horse angle anyhow these days

We were asked by the OP to give our reaction to some old videos, about a trainer weā€™d at most heard about in passing years ago. Or never heard of.

We responded sincerely assuming OP was just a beginner rider as he said, and gave our honest options. The more videos OP linked, the lower our opinion went.

OP may very well be The Master himself, or his publicity agent.

The danger in frauds with horses is that they teach dangerous or damaging things to people and horses. They can make horses worse. They can get people injured. They can promise an easy fix and distract people from getting correct skills or even following their own intuition. In the case of Hempfling he tells people they shouldnā€™t even try to work with horses until after whatever martial arts course. That was our big initial issue

If videos are just presented for entertainment thereā€™s no real harm. But if they are presented as educational itā€™s worth pointing out the problems.

If I had stumbled across old Hempfling videos online I would have maybe watched 30 seconds and scrolled on past. Thereā€™s so much bad horse stuff on line, I wouldnā€™t even think of bringing it to COTH.

But OP asked us a question. We answered in good faith. OP got upset and dug in their heels.

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okā€¦i get that. Like i mentioned in my edit about Clinton Andersonā€¦there CAN be actual harm done to the horsesā€¦ i admit that. But there are just so many ways to skin a cat.

So this dude there, this Klaus guyā€¦ i have not watched his video, but from what i gather, heā€™s just basically unimpressive? If thatā€™s the case, so what if this OP is fascinated by him. (if indeed thatā€™s the case and not the Klaus guy himself----which i also suspect is happening here LOL).

I just got back from vacation and spent my whole morning catching up on this thread. I am sure 1 of 2 of these is true:

  1. Benv = Hempfling
  2. Benv = AI, set up by Hempfling.

There are no other options as far as I am concerned.

@Benv can you write this sentence down and take a picture of it?? At least then option 2 will be off the table.

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The videos posted by the OP are next to useless, more artsy (lots of rearing horses) than educational. Lots of chopped up video clips, with minimal explanation on what Klaus is demonstrating. Decidedly underwhelming.

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Benv. with my considerable handicaps when horses look at me they DO NOT see a ā€œnatural leader.ā€

However, through humane riding, filling in the gaps in the horseā€™s training, and timing and releasing my aids at the proper time, often these horses accept that I am worthy of being listened to, and if they are in a desperate need for a trusted leader I am considered worthy enough to fulfill that role.

And I can fulfill that role of the leader even if it has been months since I rode them.

I EARN the leadership role, I have to earn it with each horse, and it takes time when I just ride them 30 minutes a week. NO HORSE ever, in the over 50 years Iā€™ve ridden and handled horses, looked at me and decided that I was worthy of leading them. Why would they when I stagger around them, sometimes half fall against them, when my hands and arms are trembling or shaking, I get scared sometimes, plus I am so physically weak. I have never ever automatically fulfilled a horseā€™s need for a leader immediately.

But after the horses decide that I am worthy to be a leader some of them will decide that I am the leader they need, often when all hell is breaking loose around us and their main rider/trainer/owner has to go off and deal with an emergency when horses are running madly around yelling their heads off. I mostly ā€œtellā€ the horse that they can ā€œhide behind meā€ (even when I am in the saddle) and I will protect them from the chaos. Then they usually just stand there with a loose lead rope or reins, occasionally checking with me to make sure that I still think everything is all right, then when everything calms down they walk calmly when I ask them to.

I have to prove my trustworthiness to each individual horse and it takes time. Sometimes it takes me months. Shrug. Their trust has been there when I need it so far.

And nowadays horses do not look at me for leadership until I have proven myself by riding them humanely. Just seeing me on the ground or just working with them when I am not on their backs? They look for someone else when all hell breaks loose (my lesson stable is large, usually 30 to 40 horses, hell breaks loose on occasion).

There are many ways to get a horseā€™s trust.

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OK. So why denigrate with such vehemence? Why push back so hard when someone else says they have found something horsey that floats-their-boat? I just donā€™t see the harm. I do not see the offense.

If one can tolerate odd things other disciplines do with their horses, even object - though silently (i do with some disciplines i admit it), why trammel this OP for enjoying? (if indeed s/he is not the Klaus-guyā€¦ ā€œHempflingā€ himself) What is to be gained by beating him/her into submission? Is it not allowed for other people to follow other paths? So g-you think itā€™s dumbā€¦ fine, say that. But to flog a dead horse? Is it so ā€˜weā€™ can have the last word and OP keeps coming back? Is that the thing here? Causeā€¦thatā€™s sort of bullying isnā€™t it? Esp when itā€™sā€¦20(?) against one.

I think the objection is not to any you mention there, but the insistence of his prowess and rightfulness over all other horse thing in this world, which we explained is short sighted and why.

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Substitute Clinton Anderson for Klaus-whoever-whoever - would you not feel compelled to share your opinions that maybe he ainā€™t all that and a bag of chips after all? The Op is declaring heā€™s a God and expecting that everyone else will agree - except that mere mortals are just pointing out that he too, is a mere mortal - and is, ahā€¦ whatā€™s your word? Stupid! Thatā€™s it.

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but itā€™s not a personal effronteryā€¦is it? It doesnā€™t feel that way to me.

It is when the OP insists that none of us ā€œgetā€ it (both actively posting and others lurking, as I have been), and that itā€™s a personal failure on our part for not agreeing that we need to emulate this clownā€™s personality before we can touch a horse.

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so what? I donā€™t care what some stranger thinks about me, my methods, my equine goals. I just donā€™t see how anybody can take that personally, i meanā€¦feel affected by it.

or is this just me being abnormalā€¦because of autism?

We were answering the OPā€™s first question, about what we thought of this fellowā€™s horsemanship?

I donā€™t think is us who is taking things personally. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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The OP posted some videos and wanted to discuss. Many forum members explained why they found them rather useless, and not presenting any training methods that they could see to follow and the bits they could, they have already learned elsewhere.

OP got bent out shape, demanded we show them videos which ā€œweā€ found useful, and proceeded to denigrate the ones that were shared, if the OP bothered to really watch them. I guess the no bongos or fancy music didnā€™t impress them enough to pay attention to what was actually shown in the videos shared.

Asking for a discussion about some videos and then getting upset when you get one, without anyone calling them dumb (though I believe you threw out the word stupid to another forum member at one point) isnā€™t the forum pushing back. Actually, Iā€™d say most respondents have been quite polite.

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hmmmmā€¦ ok.

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Maybe you should go back an look at the OPā€™s video links, you might understand a little more then. Who knows, you might get more out of them than most of us did.

Well the young woman isnā€™t doing anything but holding the lead rope and attempting to walk an excited/overly fresh horse. How can you compare them when she isnā€™t doing the round pen exercise he is?

Klaus is using his stick and body to make the horseā€™s feet move and controlling the horseā€™s direction and getting the horse to face him. That is nothing new but simply, pressure and release.

It also appears to me that the video is quite choppy , meaning it looks like it was heavily edited so it only took 30 seconds to watch the ā€œtransformationā€. I imagine it took longer to work with this horse to achieve the end goal and that is what I would expect .

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At the risk of being misunderstood, because I canā€™t seem to formulate a response that wonā€™t come across wrong, I am heading back to lurkdom.

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