Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

ok. i watched about three and a half of them. He thinks he’s pretty cute huh? ugh… That was my one main take-away that brought me a bit of a repulsion.

I manage my horses sort of similarly. They are in a band on a large amount of complicated land. (hills/meadows/pastures/woods/ravines/creeks). Dealing with them at-large and at liberty is such a pleasure for me. As is working with them without tack. I ‘get’ the appeal of having my animals live in this manner. And it is nice to be able to deal with them out there when they are free to engage or move off. Sort of a good feeling that they want to be near. I get allllll of that. But what he is selling i do not know? I can’t figure that part out… Not many people keep horses this way, or want to. I think the appeal is to horse-watcher types. Like those who go out into the SW and photograph and interact with the wild ones…

What i did not feel was any criticism that i would take to heart and be offended by. Again, i think that must be a me-thing since most of you guys felt something.

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We were replying to the OP continually responding to us and changing the parameters.

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That is kind of the way most in our SW keep horses, we too watch them and know them as they interact with each other and us.
Some of those horses even help us when we are out there working on something, one four year old used to try to help me pull post when I was taking an old fence down and kept having to get on and off the tractor to get to the next post.
He figured that out and wanted to help take the chain off the post and almost could, if he had an opposable stiffer lip he would have, but no hands to put the chain around the next post.
Then there are those that hand your tools to you, or play keep away with them too. :rofl:

We used to go up on the plains and look down in the canyons to see where the horses were, unless we waited until they came to water to headquarters, to take naps in and around the horse pens, where we could watch them from the house, mares and foals on one side, geldings and stallion on the other.

All that is part of having horses, along with using them to work cattle, where they would jostle around the gate, hoping they would be chosen to go, a highlight in their lives.
That another whole different way to work with them, many the same horses those.

People manage their horses in so, so many ways, imagination is the limit how many ways.

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I generally have strong opinions about cult leaders of all stripes. I also have strong opinions about those who prey on beginning horsepeople with ideas that their way is the only way.

Like you, I do a lot of different things with my horses. I do most things from my body language and the horses respond. What I don’t do is insist that my way is revolutionary (it isn’t) or better than other training methods (other than outright abuse, which I think we would all agree is wrong).

Hempfling’s books are a bit more down to earth (except the one in novel form - that one was just weird with a lot of sexual content) and it’s just basic training. He does talk about body language a lot, and I think that part is good - it is something that a lot of people don’t emphasize enough in their teaching.

But he isn’t the second coming of Christ and his ideas aren’t that revolutionary, despite the OP insisting that he is. shrug

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Many of you are expressing complaints that the clips are too showy and artsy, wanting them to be more educational. However, it’s important to remember that these clips are freely shared and only want to showcase what Hempfling is doing. If you go to a restaurant and they are serving a bad steak, you have the right to complain because you are paying for the steak. But these clips are provided for free and you can say that maybe they don’t give you what you want or you may not like them, but how can you complain about it? This seems misplaced considering the circumstances.

If Hempfling would not be there, who could you go against? Hempfling’s approach stands in stark contrast to predator-methods and any other kind of use of pressure and force, and if he would not be there, then these kinds of things would be the only things remaining. And exactly the absence of all these kinds of practices is perfectly demonstrated in the clips from KFH. Like for example in the clip with Janosch, which is only just one uncut scene, which is just showing it so clearly.

Everyone can say something about taste but this is not the theme here. The primary focus here is not personal preferences but rather the essence of what the videos are trying to convey. They aim to illustrate a different approach to horsemanship, one that promotes harmony, respect, and understanding between humans and horses. They show the opposite from the hunter-method, which is only misusing the horses and killing them from inside, and then putting a saddle on.

As someone who has personally witnessed numerous demonstrations and live performances, together with thousands of other individuals, I can vouch for the authenticity of the depicted transformations, like for example also the change of the Lusitano in such an incredible short amount of time. What is shown in the clips is real and is also exactly what Hempfling is known for.

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:woman_shrugging:

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“predator methods”

Oh dear, oh dear…

I believe many of us know exactly what is being conveyed in these videos with no need to clarify.

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AKA marketing and “ooo and ahhh” factors. Which was brought up in the early comments. Talk about beating a dead horse in this thread, yeeeeesh.

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You keep selling, but no one is buying.

Perhaps your energy would be best spent elsewhere.

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Why it is always “breeding stallions” with these types? I seriously think there’s some yucky kink in there somewhere. Gross.

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It sells to the Black Stallion Syndrome crowd.

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It squicks me out, 100%. As soon as they’re “standing between a stallion and a mare in season” making sure that stallion’s penis is in full view, or the mare’s winking vulva - in more than one video - I’m fully done.

Absolutely disgusting.

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In the aforementioned clip with the Iberian stallion, he was using very standard round-penning techniques to move the horse’s feet. He darts quickly towards the horse, with his lunge/driving whip, and turns the horse around a few times. Once the horse starts paying more attention to him, he backs off the pressure and eventually gets what other people might call the join-up, where the horse follows the trainer around without a leadrope. I assume so, anyway, given the jump cut between him driving the horse and then drawing the horse in. Many, many trainers, in many countries, have employed similar techniques to deal with rank horses.

As an aside, Iberian horses, in my experience of n-equals-1, have a strong inclination towards the draw, stronger than other breeds of horses I have worked with. This might not have taken Hempfling very long. It also might be why you see lots of them in liberty work.

It takes timing and feel, more than charisma, to do it well. Hempfling – and the OP – are far from the first people to espouse that join-up (or whatever you want to call it) is a way of proving to the horse that you possess leadership qualities. As someone mentioned in another post, some researchers got horses to join-up with RC cars, pretty much disproving the leadership/charisma hypothesis. Instead, the study suggested that the horses learned through operant conditioning how to get the trainer/RC car to stop chasing them. In other words, pressure-release taught the horses to follow the cars. Teaching the draw and drive can still be very useful at times (for working on attentiveness, liberty work if that’s your thing, improving hard-to-catch horses), but we need to be honest about what we are doing.

Back in the late 1990s, when I was first taught join-up, the trainer said, “It’s how horses show dominance with each other.” That theory has also been debunked. Researchers paired dominant broodmares with unrelated yearlings and put them in a round pen. The broodmares did not chase the yearlings around and around until the yearlings showed whatever humans interpreted as signs of submission. Most of the subjects just mooched quietly around the round pen.

There’s been more ethological studies of domestic and wild herds, which shows that ‘dominance’ is an incorrect interpretation of agonistic behaviour, even when integrating new members into the herd. Frequent and aggressive chasing (unless we are talking about stallions trying to take posession of mares) has more to do with resource guarding than dominance.

Here are my own ethological observations on that point. Going back to the 1990s/early 2000s, I was boarding at a barn in Colorado that had herds of horses on drylots, with piles of hay scattered about. The NH trainers who were popular at the time said that established herd members will keep a newbie at a distance for some time, until the newbie has shown sufficient humility to be allowed into the herd. And indeed, we could observe this when new boarders came into the group. When the trainer said that’s what we must emulate in the round pen, we thought it made sense.

Fast-forwarding to now, I live in Scotland, and my horses are turned out on pastures with seemingly limitless grass. When a new horse goes into the herd, there might be a little bit of running around and squealing, but so long as the newbie has reasonable social skills, it’s usually quite civilized. And you can look at that herd like an hour later, and the newbie will have made friends and will be grazing with the others, not miles away on the outskirts of the group.

Humans need to be careful about applying our anthrocentric ideas of dominance and hierarchy to horses. With what we know now (not just me…people way more professional than me), it’s highly probable that the CO horses on the drylot were guarding their hay, which seemed like a finite resource, from newcomers. The more aggressive horses got the best hay access. New horses had to work out where they stood, and who they could push off a hay pile with the fewest consequences. The horses in the Scottish field, on the other hand, don’t feel like they have to defend their food source because it seems unlimited. Therefore there is usually less aggression and less ‘keeping the new guy out of the herd’ behaviour.

The two photos show my youngster going into the herd at a new yard. She’s the horse in the grey rug. First photo was right when I turned her out, and the second one was taken a couple hours later.

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Here are two clips I would like to direct your attention to. The first clip features Hempfling working with a Lipizzaner stallion in an unfenced area, demonstrating their interaction and connection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq06bmJLt-U&t=25s. In the second clip, Hempfling offers explanations about the ongoing interaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMUOY0I0yt0&t=6s

The stallion had been with KFH only just a couple of days, NO training and no dressage. The success of their interaction relies solely on the immediate connection established from the very first encounter, from one moment to another one. Hempfling has demonstrated this approach to thousands of spectators, and when discussing Hempfling, the focus generally revolves around whether or not he effectively can communicate and transmit what he is doing. However, those familiar with the horse world, even to a small extent, are well aware of the authenticity of his work. Please also watch the clip I previously shared from the online magazine Horses for Life again as an example.

It is important to note that Hempfling’s approach is not merely a variation of natural horsemanship but a complete contrast, akin to black and white. I recall a quote from Klaus in which he mentioned that he is “putting himself on the side of the horses, which naturally sparks disagreements among horse people.”

By the way, the clip with the Lipizzaner has 4.6 million views, and Hempfling has authored four bestselling books. Which books have you been writing, just so I can inform myself better about your work?

I’ve finally figured it out what this thread reminds me of…

Groundhog Day.

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i’m perfectly fine with this guy. I don’t see any horses being harmed …only ladies being charmed.

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You don’t have a problem with scammers?

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wellllllll…
look at all the conversation and interest on here. It sparked some interesting and informative discussion.

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Yeah, what he’s doing is fine. It’s normal liberty work. But it’s not revolutionary. He’s not the only trainer on the planet who could teach you or your horse how to do that, which is sort of the claim the OP is making.

I’ve written two books, by the way (not about horses, though).

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Interesting maybe. Informative? Not in the way OP intended but sure.

He is a scammer. I have a problem with scammers.

The call centers in India trying to get grandma’s money are not “hurting” anyone, physically. But they’re scammers, and I have a problem with that.

This guy’s business model is to make people feel inadequate to work with their animals, and pay to get mentored by him. He is nothing but a snake oil salesman, so that’s scamming.

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