Herzensdieb or His Highness

[Blume_Farm]

I am pretty sure I am going to do an ET with my mare early spring 2013. She is Rotspon-Davignon-Matcho, strengths: almost perfect walk and canter, very powerful trot but not as much “knee action” that is fashionable today but I’m OK with that (scored MPT walk=9, trot=8, canter=9), good temperament overall (can be a little sluggish when in season). What I would like to improve are hind end conformation (she scored a 7 so good, but I think her angles are a little straight) and she is more the heavier Rotspon type so could use a little refinement or improved typiness. I would be OK with an exact replica of her though as well:)

I want to use Hohenstein blood as I LOVE him, his offspring, and I think he would compliment my mare nicely. However, that limits me greatly. I think I have it narrowed down to His Highness or Herzensdieb. I have my opinion of what each stallion might bring to the table but was interested to hear other opinions (without giving mine to influence). I am also keenly interested in Hochadel but his frozen is unknown and I might not be in a position to gamble enough on iffy semen when doing an ET. I am not the hugest fan of Harvard and no other Hohenstein in NA (that I know of).

Or I could go completely away from the Hohenstein thing and breed to Quaterback. Fell in love with him this summer:)

[Lorelei_Welsh]

This is slightly off-topic, but I am curious - is there actually His Highness frozen semen available? Do you already own it? I am sorry to take away from your post but I had always (admittedly, without basis) assumed there was not any available.

[Blume_Farm]

There is frozen semen…in very limited supply and requires approval from the Leatherdale’s for breeding. I have already contacted them and can purchase his semen (not cheap though:) for obvious reasons!).

I had mentally commited to breed to HH but then saw some lovely Herz mare’s this summer…now I go back and forth:) Just looking to hear others opinions as it may bring up a point that I had not yet considered.

[Tiki]

Donarweiss is a DeNiro/Hohenstein/Archipel stallion

[aquafarms]

I think His Highnes would be my choice from these guys, you could look at Herzensdieb’s sire Tambor, he and another son Herzog are offered by Marble Hill Stables, here is a link.
http://www.marblehillstables.com/stallions.htm

[Maren]

I always kind of passed over the Herzensdieb kids - we didn’t see all that many for a while. Then his daughters started to come out at the inspections and my oh my - NICE. Now, with several under saddle (Trakehner and Hanoverian offspring) I have to admit that Herzensdieb seems to be a really good riding horse producer. I always sort of “faulted” him for the missing engine, but that’s just Hohenstein for you and he really has come along so beautifully under saddle now. More importantly, his kids really impress. The mind and willingness are a dream for any rider - so not knowing your mare and all of this being theoretical at best - Herzensdieb gets my vote

[Sunnydays]

His Highness puts good front ends and usually good rideability. However, he can add size/bulk. I would steer away from Quaterback, for a mare with Rotspon/Davignon in the damline. He is best with mares with some blood or lightness. With a mare with heaviness in the pedigree, you risk getting a hugenheimer from him.
Haven’t had experience with Herzendeib offspring, but I’d expect what Maren describes as her experience.

[ticofuzzy]

My experience with HH is that he adds bulk.

[Mistysmom]

Having looked at many Quaterbacks, I can say he produces a bigger body type out of many types of mares and so far, all the youngsters I have seen (yearling - 4 years) have been on the sensitive side and with different degrees of “spooky” behavior. Not really amateur friendly. He is well known to produce this. German breeders refer to it as “electric” and I suspect this will result in his offspring having brilliance in the show ring down the road.

HH is not really a “refining” stallion however, he will reliably improve on type and add excellent rideability!

I have no experience with Herzensdieb.

[Blume_Farm]

thanks for all the comments. I think I should clarify a little in that when I say refinement (for this particular mare) I am not meaning “less bone/body” or trying to take a more old fashioned WB to a more Tb-like WB. For her I am wanting to improve upon her “pretty”. Maybe it is better to say she, overall, is more “course” looking than her dam and I would like to refine that. Her bone and body size are, for me, perfect…not too heavy, not too light at right at 16.2h. Not sure I am making sense but I am leaning towards Trak blood right now as they are a breed know to improve upon type/ prettiness. Movement, correctness of gaits, and temperament are my ideal in this mare so I just want to perserve that.

It was my impression that HH produces “typey” offspring and at the same time will help retain her gaits and temperament. My impression from seeing a few Herz mares at mare shows were great gaits with good suspension, they appeared to have good temperaments (although I only saw mares in hand, not under saddle) and were quite “typey” as well…if not even a bit “lighter” in type. They also had fantastic walks…very loose through their bodies.

As a breeder with the intent to retain the offspring if it is a filly and sell if a colt it is also important that the subsequent foal be marketable for sale. I think for here in the US HH is quite markeable. Lastly, I have seen Hampton (HH-Rotspon) in person and he was lovely…so at least one successful pairing of the lines.

So hard to make these decisions:) Good discussion though guys!

[Yecart]

Not much of a help now, but His Highness is one of my all time favorite stallions and I am ‘living the dream’ having two foals due in the next month or so. Both of my mares are of modern type, refined with great movement and are half sisters. I’m expecting something very special from this cross.