What makes a high end saddle so expensive? There seems to be a big difference in price between lower and higher end brands and models. Why is a monoflap pricier than a double flap? Also, why the big price difference between models of the same brand? Say the Amerigo vs. Amerigo Vega. Do they fit better? More fitting options? Better tree? I have a horse that is very picky and a hard fit. And yes, I do consult on fit with saddle fitters. The cheaper saddles don’t seem to fit. Sorry to add to the plethora of saddle threads…
Let me just start by saying this is just my opinion based on many years of buying saddles and trying to fit horses. I’ve have bought everything from inexpensive to expensive and haven’t really found that one or the other fit better. Fit is really getting things right, tree shape, panel shape, gullet width etc. it isn’t about cost. Yes, with expensive saddle you have more fit options, usually they are able to be adjusted. What makes a saddle $5,000 v/s $1500, the type of leather, hand cut leather v/s machine cut, tree, flocking all very. Does a $5,000 saddle justify the cost - in my book no. I have owned a couple of expensive saddles, one I was very impressed with, the other not. The Vega is supposed to be the value brand by Amerigo, for the money they cost now, I wouldn’t spend it on one. I owned an Amerigo Pinerolo Alto, beautiful saddle, best fit for me, horse hated it. Would I pay $5,000 for one - no. It’s an off the rack saddle, you might as well buy a custom one at that that kind of money. I bought mine when they cost $3,100, that was a lot then; at that price they were mostly worth it but not $5,000 as they are today. I’m not saying they aren’t bad saddles mind you.
With 25+ years of saddle buying nightmares, wasted money, shipping ton’s of saddles back and forth; I’ve learned that there are saddles in all price ranges that will fit, finding them is the trick.
Js, Did you have your Alto fit by an Amerigo fitter? I hear that the fit on the Amerigos have to be right and the different models are designed for different builds. I had not heard that the horses don’t like them, just perhaps the rider.
The higher end saddles are more expensive because as a rule, they are better quality. Their trees, their saddle tree quality, their flocking, etc. I’ve had my Prestige D1DK for about 4 years, and I haven’t even had to have it reflocked. It’s not flocked with wool, but with a different material. I think the D1K trees are the same as in the Cobra saddles, which are also very very good. The high end saddles sit on the horse better (when they fit the horse, of course). And they are comfortable. And the saddle overall quality is superb.
Monoflap puts you closer to the horse and the technology to make it is different, and more difficult I imagine, so I guess that’s why it’s more expensive.
[QUOTE=Shenandoah;7525666]
Js, Did you have your Alto fit by an Amerigo fitter? I hear that the fit on the Amerigos have to be right and the different models are designed for different builds. I had not heard that the horses don’t like them, just perhaps the rider.[/QUOTE]
I was working via long distance with a fitter. The Alto was the fitter’s recommendation. Each model is designed to fit different type backs. I loved the balance of the saddle, was a perfect fit for me, just not for the horse.
I haven’t found any difference in the comfort for me or my horse based on the dollar value of the saddle, that purely was dependent on the saddle itself, not how much it cost.
There is some difference in quality of leather and quality of tree. Much of it is due to the time and workmanship too. There CAN be a lot of “human time” into making a saddle. Part of it is just perceived value too - like any marketing, is the name brand worth more then the generic? Maybe, maybe not.
Whew, those are some big questions that would require novel-length answers to be complete. But here’s some necessarily short and incomplete answers.
[QUOTE=Shenandoah;7525640]
What makes a high end saddle so expensive? There seems to be a big difference in price between lower and higher end brands and models.[/QUOTE]
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Because to some degree, they really are better-made saddles. They’re made of better leathers that underwent better tanning and curing processes, are dyed “all the way through” instead of surface-dyed or dyed in a way that the ink will run or fade, are hand-made by master craftsmen instead of being partially or entirely machine-made, are the product of more extensive research and development, etc.
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Although this doesn’t apply to all high-end brands, it applies to many: the cost of manufacturing. It’s not cheap to hire master European craftsmen in countries that pay good wages. Also, the Euro-US dollar exchange rate is piss-poor right now. At the moment, 4000 Euros = $5500 US. Also, leather costs are WAY up over the past few years. Guess where most leather in the world comes from? Beef cattle. And beef consumption is way down and beef cattle prices are way up. So guess what’s happened to leather prices.
You can see how, given all that, a French or Italian saddle that was sold for $3500 in 2006 is now being sold for $5000. -
This is a big one: pure old markup over the wholesale price. The ballpark cost to manufacture an Amerigo/Antares/Devoucoux/etc. in today’s market is roughly $2400-$2800, give or take a few hundred depending on leather options chosen and other contextual factors. The saddles often retail for double that cost.
People seem to begrudge saddle companies the size of these markups. And I would be the first to say that $5000-$6000 is a crapton of money. I’m a graduate student. That’s more money than I make in three months. But it’s not like there’s some saddle-shop owner somewhere who’s swimming in an ocean of cash. Those markups pay for advertising, perks for sponsored riders, travel to big shows and conventions, barn calls from saddle reps that are often completely fee-free for customers (hint: you did pay for that visit, you just paid it in the saddle’s MSRP instead of a separate fee!), training for an often-extensive network of saddle brand reps, AND enough profit to keep the business alive and growing.
Granted, there are other ways to sell high-end saddles for less coin. For example, a $3000 Frank Baines from Britain will often outpace a $4500 French or Italian saddle in terms of workmanship and quality. How is Baines doing it so much more cheaply? Way less advertising and sponsorship, less travel to big shows, a less-extensive brand rep network (that is largely composed of independent saddle fitters who choose, of their own accord, to represent Baines along with several other brands they believe in–which means Baines doesn’t have to pay the reps), a smaller compensation amount per saddle for the seller (compared to the French/Italian brands), not offering free farm calls, etc. In short, the price of the smaller markup = less availability and less visibility on the market.
Why is a monoflap pricier than a double flap?
- Because the market will bear it. Consumers are gaga for monoflaps.
- Because they are, arguably, harder to design and make well. They are also often constructed of very premium, high-end, soft leathers that better translate feedback between horse and rider and create a really close-contact feel.
But mostly it’s #1.
Also, why the big price difference between models of the same brand? Say the Amerigo vs. Amerigo Vega. Do they fit better? More fitting options? Better tree?
Your first question is too general to address because it depends on the brand, but I can speak more specifically to “Amerigo v. the Amerigo Vega.”
Vega by Amerigo is designed and engineered to be cheaper than the main Amerigo lineup. Basically, Amerigo recycled their R&D from the more extensive Amerigo lineup and condensed it into a few, more generic-fitting models that they could offer at a lower price. By standardizing the models/offering limited customization options (including fewer leather options and a less extensive lineup of seat sizes and tree sizes), building on a synthetic polyamide tree, and building from more sturdy sections of grain-leather hides (<–cheaper) instead of calf leathers and more fine-grained portions of the grain leather (<–more expensive), Amerigo can offer the Vega lineup for less.
Why do they do this at all? Partly because there are customers who will never ever shell out for Amerigo prices, and Amerigo can capture some of that market by offering a cheaper but similar product.
For other customers, Vega functions as a gateway drug. If they can “hook” budget shoppers on the Amerigo-style ride by getting someone to fall in love with a Vega, then that rider is more likely to consider the expensive Amerigo lineup the next time that they need a saddle. Especially if their next horse is a speshul flower who needs something more specific.
Amerigo isn’t the only brand that does this. Antares, Childeric, Prestige, Albion, Bliss/Loxley, Stubben, and many other brands have a cheaper off-the-rack or less-customization-offered saddles in their lineup.
I have a horse that is very picky and a hard fit. And yes, I do consult on fit with saddle fitters. The cheaper saddles don’t seem to fit. Sorry to add to the plethora of saddle threads…
You’re not going to like this answer, but chances are your horse CAN be fit in a cheaper saddle. You just aren’t finding reps who are willing or able to speak to which cheaper saddles would work. I’d say that about 85-90% of the fit cases I consult on can be completely addressed for $3000–and often for much less. It does get tough to work with budgets under $1500, but I’d say 70-75% of horses can be fit well in such saddles.
Certainly there are exceptions, and I have to break some people’s hearts and tell them that a $5000 saddle is their best or only bet. But many consumers simply never find the cheaper options because they don’t find the few saddle fitters who specialize in such products. Or, when they start actually trying those products, they realize that they’ve got champagne taste and aren’t willing to compromise on things like leather quality. And it takes a whole 'nother level of awareness of the market to know things like “The poor man’s Amerigo is the Dominus, Porsche, and Cobra saddles designed by Peter Menet before his contract relationship with Harry Dabbs ended. The Jaguar lineup, issued by Dabbs right after Menet left, works for a lot of ‘Amerigo’ horses too.”
I admit openly that if I knew “then” what I know “now,” my horse probably wouldn’t go in an Amerigo Close Contact jump saddle. To be fair, I got it for a screaming good price. But today, I can still name several saddles that retail under $1000 that my horse could wear comfortably. At least two or three of them would probably work well for me as the rider, too. But I didn’t know that at the time. I wised up by the time I bought my dressage saddle. 
Why don’t (most) pro saddle fitters offer that level of service on cheaper saddles? Here’s some of the extremely good reasons they’ve articulated to me:
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Because they don’t have the time or desire to get to know the extensive low-end product market. Even if they had the time, low-end products often change/are built on different trees or by different distributors every few years, so they’d have to keep refreshing their knowledge of that market segment. As someone who actually does this for fun and enjoyment, let me tell you, it’s a not-insubstantial amount of work.
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Because they’re afraid to get sued. It’s one thing to recommend products from a product line that you represent and are prepared to personally stand by, fit in person, have a direct communication line with corporate so that you can make it right if things go wrong, etc. It’s another thing to advise someone on the Internet to buy a brand that you don’t rep for, can’t guarantee will stand by its product at the corporate level, is potentially being sold by some other seller or saddlery that you’re not affiliated with, etc. It’s a legal nightmare. Many good fitters will advise on a saddle that you already brought into a barn of your own accord, and they’ll speak in vague generalities like “You might try Amerigo” or “call this other professional.” But they’re not going to put their butts on the line by saying more than that.
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Because there’s not enough money in it. Saddle fitters need to make a living, too, and there’s rarely much profit in advising low-end shoppers. Some outfits, like Annette Gavin at Hastilow USA in Pennsylvania or Classic Saddlery in Michigan, have “made it work” by having a thriving in-person saddle fit business and doing Internet consultations on the side. Others, like Patricia at Fine Used Saddles, have pulled it off by moving saddles in huge volumes. Still others, like Ann Forrest at Equestrian Imports or Cori McGraw at High End Used Saddles, charge for the time they put into the consults.
My final thoughts: I’ve never seen your horse (or rider) in pictures, so I can’t advise you you specifically. And unfortunately, that’s not an invitation because I’m not taking clients at the moment due to my 8-week-old kiddo and a dissertation that needs to be written. 
But let’s just say that a whole lot of “Amerigo horses” can be accommodated much more cheaply with these options:
–a Dominus/Cobra/Jaguar saddle (search the forums for more info as these are largely discontinued)
–some of the Prestiges (Ann Forrest at Equestrian Imports or Paul at VTO Saddlery can speak to these)
–some of the Toulouses that are very good knockoffs of certain Prestige saddles, and some of the newer HDR models that blatantly knock off Amerigo (Lynda at Classic Saddlery in Michigan can speak to these)
–one of the Thornhills that admirably knocks off Roosli and another that takes some cues from Vega. Both are more “specific” in fit than Vega and went through several model variations over the years, so be sure to consult a fitter before ordering one. (Cordia Pearson in Minnesota would be your gal, www.saddlefitter.com)
–the PDS Showtime saddles by Pessoa (annoyingly hard to find people who know these well, but I’ve posted my impressions of them on the forums in the past. In short, they were Pessoa’s attempt to land-grab customers at a point in time when Vega had JUST raised its prices to $3000+, so Pessoa issued a forward-balanced Argentine-made saddle with an XCH adjustable gullet to try and land-grab some customers in the $2400-$2600 range. They don’t ride like Amerigo/Vega at all, but the panel options on the PDS Showtime saddles take some key fitting cues from the Amerigo lineup. I actually own one of these, and while I would dislike it/prefer many other options at its retail price, I bought it on closeout at $1400 and feel that it was well worth THAT price tag.)
–other options that I’m omitting for the sake of brevity and time. And there are a lot of them, especially if you’re considering saddles that may retail at $3000+ but can be found used for less (Verhan, Spirig, blahblahblahblah).
Best of luck with your search.
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Nice reply, jn4jenny! As someone who works with the “guts” of saddles, I can say that you usually get what you pay for. While some saddles are over the top and you’re really paying for snob appeal, the saddles that run in the $2-$4K range are priced realistically, based on the craftsmanship and quality of materials. UK-made saddles are made by hand, by trained craftsmen, and anything that requires that much labor ain’t gonna be cheap.
Argentine-made saddles are a more affordable option, but quality control isn’t always great, so they can range from pretty decent to downright awful. And don’t get me started on the “saddle packages” you can buy for $200 …
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The main difference in pricing between amerigo and amerigo vega is that amerigos are made out of wooden spring trees which require much more workmanship to produce than the synthetic trees in vegas which are produced using machinery.
We honestly do it to ourselves.
A quality saddle is made of quality material and has proper balance- yes.
The rest is current fashion or trend- we happily pay retail because that’s what a BNR/T rides in or the barn recommends or my friend has one.
Devoucoux was the must have a few years ago now they are reasonable and Amerigo and Schleese are the must haves.
Someone else mentioned Thornhill they started as $200 leather saddles same quality as Wintec- still same $200 saddle people just started buying and recommending = price steadily increased. Now due to high price people assume it’s quality.
[QUOTE=hongkong;7571845]
The main difference in pricing between amerigo and amerigo vega is that amerigos are made out of wooden spring trees which require much more workmanship to produce than the synthetic trees in vegas which are produced using machinery.[/QUOTE]
What? Synthetic trees?
“No wire hangers!” when it comes to saddle trees, IMO. I’m gonna start a different thread about it.
[QUOTE=Ltc4h;7573151]
Someone else mentioned Thornhill they started as $200 leather saddles same quality as Wintec- still same $200 saddle people just started buying and recommending = price steadily increased. Now due to high price people assume it’s quality.[/QUOTE]
While I do remember the cheaper Thornhills of yore, have you seen the new ones?
They are NOT $200 saddles with a bigger price tag. They are a very good bargain for the $1000-1500 price tags on the assorted models.
Their “Shannon” and “Pro-Am” lines are lesser quality, but any of their models that break that $1k mark are very nice. Easily comparable (or better) than all the similar saddles in that range.
[QUOTE=Ltc4h;7573151]
Someone else mentioned Thornhill they started as $200 leather saddles same quality as Wintec- still same $200 saddle people just started buying and recommending = price steadily increased. Now due to high price people assume it’s quality.[/QUOTE]
Well I’m about to trial either a Thornhill Klasse or a Vienna II, so I will offer my opinion on them here afterwards. I’m not making any assumptions, but by God, if the thing FITS him… yeah, I’d like to have a little $$ in my pocket for some clinics or lessons.
Well I’m about to trial either a Thornhill Klasse or a Vienna II, so I will offer my opinion on them here afterwards.
Curious.
I ride in a Vega.
I tried both the Amerigo Deep and the Vega (double flap). They are technically the same saddle.
This was in 2006…so slightly dated.
The Amerigo Deep has a more narrow gullet. And it has a wood tree.
The Vega has a wider gullet and a spring tree.
My horse was very easy going. The only time I ever felt like I might get dumped was when I tried the Amerigo Deep. He hated it with a passion.
He was fine in the Vega.
go figure!
High end saddles cost more usually because the leather is better quality. I don’t mind the cheaper saddles. I find the 2-3K saddles are just fine.
I think saddle costs that are 3.5K + are ridiculous and unwarranted.
Great answer jn4jenny!
Personally, I’ve owned a range of saddles. Some were “high end” – Schleese, Stackhouse – some were low end, such as Wintec. Since saddle fit is so personal, the higher priced saddles didn’t always work as well for me as ones that cost less.
Personally, I’ve gravitated toward “good” brands that I can find on the used market and which are well made but maybe don’t have the super soft, luxurious leather of the French brands. I don’t want to spend $5K on a saddle when I can find plenty of quality saddles for under $3K. And by shopping carefully on the used market, I’ve gotten managed to get some very nice saddles for under 1K.
My current favorite saddles are an old County Extreme, a Kieffer Norbert Koof FL, and an old model Wintec Pro Jump. My dressage saddle is a Roosli Pilatus.
These are well made saddles that have balance points that work for me and which didn’t break the bank.
After reading all the threads on COTH about problems with custom saddles (especially custom French saddles) I’d rather have a root canal than order one!
I actually like the adjustable synthetic tree that Kieffer uses because it allows a cost effective way to adjust the width of the tree. I know it won’t make every saddle fit, but it gives you a few more options.
I am lucky enough to work with a saddle fitter who doesn’t sell saddles. He will recommend brands/models for your horse and often is able to make saddles fit. I agree with J4jenny that a large majority of horses can be fit without a custom saddle, but you need someone who is working with you to make it happen.
It depends on simple overhead costs (where is the factory located and are the saddles hand made or primarily assembled by machine); quality of products; quality of manufacturing; knowledge and years of experience of manufacturing team and management; and availability of qualified saddle fitters.
Many people form opinions on liking (or disliking) a brand because they rode in that saddle … keep in mind that many high-end used saddles or your friend’s saddles were likely custom made for them or for a horse and may be completely uncomfortable for you and your horse. Fitting a rider is easy; the horse is more difficult. I would suggest riding in some demos of different brands until YOU find one you love, then spend the money to have one built for your horse or buy a standard size saddle if you catch ride and use pads to modify the fit. Riding in a saddle that is well-balanced and comfortable for the rider is worth every penny, and if your horse(s) are happier which is of course the second important part, just buy it!
I have three saddles: an Amerigo, an Antares, and a CWD. I like the balance best of the Amerigo. However, the company does not stand behind its saddles and I question how well made they are. When I had a problem with my Antares, they couldn’t have been more helpful. They set the bar for customer satisfaction and Amerigo – World Equestrian Brands here – could take a lesson. I would never buy another Amerigo product or recommend buying one, because if something happens you will be out of luck and several thousand dollars. PM for details, if interested.
I found the Amerigo company great to work with, it was their US rep that was rude and just about ruined my saddle because she was PO’d that I contacted the company directly regarding fitting.
