I am thinking of trying a shadow roll on my high headed horse. When approaching jumps, his head goes straight up and he sort of “climbs” the air with his front lets. he currently goes in a running martingale.
My only concern is that he won’t be able to see and react to jumps on XC as well. he is not spooky or looky at all and is quite clever and has a good sense of self preservation, he just likes to put his head straight up.
Thoughts on if it’d be worth trying?
Thanks!
Quick response.
You have a solid hold on his head so to me it looks like he is trying to get a better look at the fence plus have use of his neck for the jump. Would suggest going back to basics on the flat and over poles/gymnastics. You need to trust him more so you can soften you hands in between fences and he has the confidence that you will allow him to use his body correctly over the fences.
By the way - very nice horse.
This
A shadowroll will make his head go up higher - I do not, for the love of god, understand why anyone puts one of those things on a horse - it obstructs a good part of their vision - you want them to JUMP with that?! But people do…
I watched the videos and that is a horse I would say is lame. It looks to me like some serious backsoreness and he is trying to get the jumps over with because of it. He does not hold leads well, has trouble swapping, traveled inverted the entire time even when he looked “round”, is very quick and short with his hinds. All of these, to me, are red flags that the horse is physically uncomfortable - add the accosting the jumps and the scoots after, and the lack of gait symmetry, and I think part of your problem is physical.
Have you considered dialing it back to smaller efforts until he is comfortable with them? To me it does look like he is very sore, perhaps from saddle fit?
i should add, this is his first horse show in two years due to a broken coffin bone, so he was super excited. he was recently worked up by a vet and doesn’t have any back soreness and is sound, he is just tense and excited because of the situation. thanks
I watched Leslie Law get on a horse similar to yours in a recent EventingTrainingOnline. It was quite interesting how he got the horse to settle and carry himself. This was a video done on 5/22. My horse doesn’t need this type of riding, but I like how he set the horse up on the turns, really good video. It is either episode 4 or 5. Agree with beowulf, no shadow roll!.
I realize the round is super rough, and i’m not trying to justify my crappy riding, but i feel like i should explain a tad more. this horse raced until he was 8, came to me very hot and anxious, and this was only worsened by my old trainer. he broke his coffin bone last spring, was out for 4.5 months. this january he popped a splint and was out for 2 more months. this is his first outdoor show since 2015, and he was pretty fired up. at home our flat work is relaxed and over his back, and jumping is still a bit nerve wracking for him. i have been working with a very well qualified trainer, so please don’t think i’m trying to do this alone. my vet did a full work up on him about a month ago, he is sound and gets regular chiropractic work, etc. the saddle i jumped him in in the video is not mine, as my custom prestige saddle is still being made.
just thought i’d defend myself a bit since you cant tell the whole story from a video 
Agree with above that a shadow roll will not help, and will likely worsen.
Completely understand that horses get excited, and often times you have a different horse at home than at a show (especially the first one in a long time), but these are small jumps with an already fairly severe bit. It does appear that he is mostly ducking behind the bit or inverting above it, giving the appearance that he just needs to be better broke and on your aids.
You seem like a balanced rider who is trying hard to make it alll work. It doesn’t sound like you want a whole bunch more advice on training, so I’m just going to vote “NO” on the shadow roll.
Best of luck to you. These things take time.
I accidentally deleted like 3 of my posts instead of the one i wanted to delete
accidentally deleted like 3 of my posts instead of the one i wanted to -.- typed out another to repeat what i said previously but it won’t post.
to repeat what i deleted: horse is sound. recently worked up by well known vet clinic. regular chiro work done and saddle fit is ok- the saddle is not mine as i am waiting for my custom saddle to be made.
im working with a trainer and fully agree with what you guys are saying. it’s a difficult horse and a difficult situation and i gave you guys a video with very little context so i guess that’s my fault. (horses first show after 2 years due to injury) 
thank you for the input. i’m going to continue to work with my trainer towards a calmer, happier horse
High headed is GOOD for jumping. It is how good jumpers measure the fence. Inverted and against the hand is the issue. Don’t think about it in terms of getting this horse’s head down. Think in terms of staying soft in your contact, letting his head come up in his own natural position but keep him coming from behind. I didn’t see the video but the hard thing with horses like this is that you need to do Less not more in front of the fence…especially with the reins. Very tough when they get aggressive to the fence too.
I think everyone has a different idea of what a high head is. My horse will never go around round in the neck and over his back. he likes to keep his head up and be able to see everything. I’ve tried to “force” him in to that type of style, where he’s round and over his back, be he loses so much impulsion and drive, that it’s better to let his head carry high, and be on his hind end. He doesn’t swim in the air with his front end though, that sounds like greenness to me more than anything.
Do you have a video?
I am not criticizing you, but I think from that video that the horse was uncomfortable. It’s good that you are doing your due diligence to keep him comfortable, and good to hear about the saddle fit coming. I had nothing negative to say about your riding, I just think that the horse looked very uncomfortable and if he is coming back from a two year injury, perhaps some extra attention should be paid to making sure he doesn’t still have any physical or compensational issues still maligning him.
It can be hard when a horse rushes a fence to resist the urge to pull. I’ve found a good way to recondition yourself is to do cavaletti work until the horse is ho-hum about them, and you are too. However, I would caution doing any of those until physical issues have been ruled out 100%.
In my experience, the first sign of a physical problem over fences is rushing the fence. The second sign is excessive and uneven swapping leads. I knew when one of my TBs started really blasting through the aids and rushing fences (despite being very calm and obedient on the flat) that it was time to get his saddle reflocked – he ended up needing back injections due to a professionally fitted saddle not fitting him properly…
the injury was a coffin bone fracture that is long since healed, so it won’t bother him anymore
I’ve had more than one horse with that issue. One lives in heart bar front shoes. His injury is long healed but he is more comfortable in those shoes for whatever reason.
But in rehabbing them, adding strength just takes time and other things can always be going on. So never underestimate whether there is a physical issue…often unrelated to the initial injury.
But he sounds like a difficult ride. Getting used to a horse who goes head high is hard. But the more you can stay out of his face, typically the better they are. My guy is similar. ONLY time I try to get his “head down” is when I’m doing gallop sets as it is hard to stay up off his back when his head is high ;). But coming to a fence…he can put his head wherever he wants. My focus is just on keeping the canter right. And I view the head up as a good thing for his balance. If they are “climbing” with their front legs…that is almost always caused when you hold them too much.
If that is because the horse is too aggressive to the fences (and the fences are not holding) I work on that (making sure that I’m not sending them too). Exercises like jumping on a short turn, landing and halting (while you stay in two point), jumping and turning toward a wall, landing and doing something different everytime. Just all the exercises to get the horse waiting for the rider.
if you guys want i can send you a video of him jumping at home versus the show video. it is night and day
It really depends on the involvement and the subsequent arthritis - fracturing a coffin bone is not something I normally would say has absolutely no adverse affects - it is something that can be managed, and a portion of horses do go on to their previous level of work, but again, usually with management. It depends on the type of fracture, if there is joint involvement/arthritis, and the quality of layup.
I don’t see “aggressive go-getter” in the video. When I think of a difficult, aggressive jumper ride I think of Rothchild. I hate to harp but I really would consider stepping back and exploring any physical causes.
Horses lift up their heads to keep the jump in their vision - it gets worse if they feel that a rider is holding their face, or fighting them.
It looks like you reconsidered your “shadowroll question” - In my experience, people often use shadow-rolls for horses who tend to try to distract themselves around course and get too looky and ‘up’ - it obscures part of their vision so they tend to “focus” more on what is in front of them, but it does come at the cost of them not being able to see the jump as well, which causes their head to go in your lap - not necessarily the result you want for your situation.
bornfreenowexpensive- absoultely. he came back into work in July after 4 1/2 months stall rest, walked for 2 weeks and slowly added a bit of hills. then started at 5 mins trot and added slowly for a few weeks with some hills, then very minimal canter. it was 3 months back undersaddle before i even pointed him at a crossrails (that he stepped over, it was literally 4" off the ground). i was very cognizant of his work load and soundness/comfort.
I am absolutely not denying that the weakness of coming back into work can cause other lameness. he was just worked up about a month and a half ago for his stifles which were a bit loose. vet flexed him and watched him lunge, palpated his back and pelvis. everything was clean but his stifles, so we blistered them. after that he was much more comfortable and we have not had an issue since.
beowulf- i understand that. but you have never met this horse and have seen a 1 minute clip of him being a hot horse at a horse show.
im quite aware of the issues that can arise from a fractured coffin bone, as my vet explained them to me and i happen to have a bit of knowledge of my own, thank you very much.
the fracture was of the medial wing of he coffin bone, no joint involvement. 4 1/2 months in a bar shoe with 5 clips and he was good as new.
i don’t understand why you insist that he is in pain from a single 1 minute clip. he was very amped up and anxious to be at a horseshow after 2 years staying on the farm. he was worked up by a well known veterinary clinic and everything was clean except for some loose stifles whic we are giving the attention they need.
if you want i will send you a video of him schooling calmly and comfortably over his back at home, since you can’t take my word that i know that my horse is comfortable.
thanks for your concern though
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