Hind end bouncing, trouble holding both leads, ideas?

Hi collective wisdom. Running into a mystery lameness issue. Have been working through a lameness issue for the last while and still unable to determine what it is. Essentially my mare is very unhappy about using her hind end in the canter. She’s 8 and has not worked overly hard (jumping small courses, regularly worked on the flat). She had stifle surgery last year to remove OCD fragment. Did full rehab, slowly brought her back, vet gave her the OK she is good to go. She seemed fine while bringing her back, a little sensitive in the back but likely due to ill fitting saddle (which has been dealt with). Also had her scoped for ulcers last winter and she was clean.

She can get very sensitive and sometimes just dumb while cycling. Very sensitive to touch by flanks, under belly, etc. This is why we were thinking possible ulcers, but instead put it down to hormones. Put her on Regumate for a few months over the summer and it helped with the mood swings and decreased the sensitivity with cycling, but still there to a lesser extent. Also gets quite swollen in the area in front of her teats, more so on the left side.
Then she started to go off. Not bad enough in the hind that it was noticeable to many people, just felt ‘off’. Then a lot of bum hopping and lead swapping. Then a lot of stopping at small fences. Had a vet out about a month ago who thought her back was sore, and also sore left hock. Hard to say which came first. Vet thought we could get by for the winter with a chiro adjustment, B12 injection in SI, previcox for the time being, and then may need hock injection in spring. Gave her a few days off and brought her back and she was worse, way worse. Reluctant to go forward, tail swishing, pinning ears and not wanting to go into canter. In canter just swapping leads and back end going up and down bouncing around.

Gave her a couple weeks off. Took her off the Previcox at request of vet (also didn’t seem to be doing anything). Had vet out again (different one because other was on vacation) and he said yep, she is 2/5 lame on hind left. We thought it was a possible suspensory injury on the hind, but after a thorough lameness evaluation we thought it was her left hock. Did xrays, ultrasound, etc., hock joint looks clean, suspensory looks clean. Blocked suspensory to ensure it was hock. Did an injection of legend and steroid, gave her 5 days off and tried again. First day back at walk and trot, totally fine. Day 3 tried to introduce canter and same thing, ear pinning, reluctant to go into canter, bum bouncing up and down. Tried taking her back to trot for a couple days thinking the hind end may need to be strengthened again, still same behaviour. Less ear pinning and reluctance to go up into canter, but will not hold a lead in either direction. About half way around a circle she starts to throw her bum up in the air. I have tried loose rein, contact, change of pace, same behaviour. She seems quite happy to trot extended or collected, seems to be something about the canter gait.
I have taken her off the Regumate for the last month and she is very sensitive again to the flank and belly area even being touched. If you try and touch or push in front of her teats she will try to kick you, more so on the left side, and will kick out on the left.

Looking for insight! Could it be hormone related? Ovarian cyst? Mastitis? Hind gut? Still her back? No temperature, eating, drinking, otherwise normal behaviour. She is on no grain, other than Dr. Reeds vitamin supplement as recommended by vet, hemp hulls, flax, and magnesium (also recommended by vet). She’s a very easy keeper.

Thank you for any insight!

My gelding did the same thing. The Chiropractor fixed it but I also gave him 6 weeks off. A pulled muscle from memory. He said he had probably fallen over at speed in the paddock.

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Honestly, it still sounds like the stifle to me. Why/how has that been ruled out or assumed not to be the problem? My guy has cantering issues when his stifles are bothering him and has a R OCD lesion. He was 11 when we found out and only has ever been 1/5 at worst so we have managed with injections and just recently I decided to try Pro Stride next time around. I would investigate the stifle that had the OCD lesion on it. I am not convinced she is 100% better from that.

I’m voting stifle as well.

Has she been tested for Lyme disease?

This definitely sounds like a hind end problem to me. I don’t think that ulcers or cycling would singly cause such dramatic behavior regarding cantering. She’s absolutely feeling pain, and a lot of it.

Do you have a conformation picture of her from behind, standing square? Would be interesting to see if her hips are even and if her pelvis is twisted

Likely she’s VERY sore in her SI and back due to compensation. The SI will end up absorbing impact to protect hocks/stifles and it just isn’t designed to take any impact. Likely you’ve got lower limb lameness causing lameness and discomfort all the way up. And girlfriend is too sore to take it anymore.

Cantering places a lot of stress on the SI.

If I were you, I’d x-ray the stifle. Have someone else review the hock x-rays and suspensory ultrasounds. Make sure those are clean. Address whatever is going on there, and then get chiro and acupuncture. I’d look at SI injections if your vet recommends it too. That inflammation needs to come down.

Good luck!

This sounds all SI area to me. Possibly contributed because of the stifle initial issue. Also maybe because of bracing her back during those painful heats/saddle issues/coming back to work.

A B12 injection isn’t going to do much. My vote would be for steroids in the SI. Although she is more sore on one side, please do it bilaterally (have seen a vet try one side only…doesn’t work. And in my horse’s case it’s the side that’s less sore that is more in need of medication, the lumbar takes the brunt on the other side). I also have had basically zero response to NSAIDs for very similar canter issues that were pretty much immediately fixed by SI injections.

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These are super hard to deal with because you find pain in lots of places - back, SI, stifle, and hock - but which one came first? and which ones are compensatory? It’s kind of like playing whack-a-mole until you stumble on the right one. Sometimes literally everything is compensatory - for a foot problem that isn’t readily apparent.

It’s possible there is an ovarian cyst causing her to not want to engage her abs and lift her back, which makes her carry herself differently, and makes the hind end sore.

The symptoms sound most like SI to me, so I’d start there - but there is truly no way to tell whether that is primary or not.

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My horse went through a similar set of issues last year. Wouldnt canter to the right, MUCH worse on a circle than straight. When it first showed up I just booted him forward and he “warmed out” of it… and I thought it was soreness in response to increased collection work (we are showing PSG). But it never resolved…so called vet. Diagnosis was SI, injected, and fine now. (Hocks were ruled out as they had been injected a few months earlier).

Following. I have a mare with similar problems at the canter. Her issues improve with work - lots of walk/trot miles, get worse with time off. But she’s not quite right behind. We did diagnostics and injections with no improvement.

Whack-a-mole, ha, that is an excellent analogy. Vet visit scheduled for Tuesday so will report back. Could be her stifle but she hadn’t had any issues with it prior surgery, OCD was only discovered during pre-purchase xrays. The incredibly sensitivity to touch to area in front of teets makes me think reproductive related. Or possibly SI, and that she needs more than the B12 and adjustment, as others have said,

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Sounds like SI pain. Bunny hopping, refusing small jumps, refusing to canter or swapping behind, grumpy attitude are all signs of SI discomfort.

Update. Have done a lot of injections over the last month or so. Injected stifle on left side (surprisingly right side where OCD was seems to be all good), as well as right hock, and another injection in left hock in different area. Did some chiro work and acupuncture as well in the back and stifle areas. Vet also suggested to put her back on the Regumate over the winter months because she will likely continue to cycle and her left follicle is enlarged. She has indoor/outdoor paddock, but barn lights probably come on at 6 or 7 am and go off at 8 or 9 pm, and apparently that light will be enough to keep her cycling all winter.
A couple weeks following hock and stifle injections she was still a bit short behind, although definitely sounder. She was having trouble relaxing her back. Could not get her to lift her back, even from on the ground with various exercises. We did a back injection of cortisol, gave a couple days off, light exercise, and then nabout a week following she was MUCH better. She can now stretch her back.
I would say she is still not 100%, but we are getting there. She has a lot of sensitivity on the left side towards the back of her rib cage, which is making me wonder if one of her ribs may be out of place. Less bum hopping now and much happier with upward and downward transitions. The odd lead swap but I am thinking it may be fitness related, as if I focus on where her hind end is, she maintains the lead.
Also what has been useful is riding her ‘up’, she loves to bury her head in the sand, that long and low, but I think she has strengthened her chest muscles to the point that her hind end is very weak. When I push her forward and lift her (leg lift leg lift) you can tell it is difficult for her but her balance is greatly improved. So now I am wondering if her fitness just needs to be built back up.
Next issue I am dealing with is slightly bulging supraorbital fossa (area above eyes), which I know can be a sign of Cushings, but she is not very old and does not have any other signs. I will get vet to do some blood work next time he is out though.

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I have this thread bookmarked because I refer back to it from time to time… It’s LONG, but so many experiences from others. I would seriously look at the SI.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…pdate-post-102

Do you have any videos of her going, W/T/C?

I would also be looking very seriously at SI, from all you have said – but do not rule out suspensories; they can block when you block the hocks… Some of this sounds chicken or egg, I hope you get answers soon!

One thing with SIs that I have found is that, injection does not cure the issue; sore SIs are usually caused by something else – meaning they are secondary issues to something bigger that is at large and untreated… Any time I have a horse with a sore SI, one of the first things I suspect is suspensories – then angles of their feet. A bad trim job can make a horse incredibly sore over their back, and many horses that have sore SIs have chronically poor trims that exacerbate and/or contributed to the issue.

Then there is the other culprits: ulcers, saddle fit, and hocks/stifles…

Is she stalled regularly? Can you keep her moving in any way, increase her turnout?

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Had an older TB who presented with inability to maintain correct leads at canter; just not comfortable. It turned out he had cervical arthritis. Also showed some neuro symptoms when the vet came to check him. Had his neck injected and he was rideable for about 18 more months, but as time went on his one stifle was a bit wonky - loose - and so I retired him.

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Interesting idea about foot angles. I assume you mean primarily the hind feet, right? Do you see this mostly with a long toe or a too upright foot?
And regarding suspensories, if they are not warm, or filled, or otherwise obviously compromised, how do you tell if theya re OK?
thanks

I would be very interested in ensuring that everything is OK with her ovaries. If one is indeed enlarged, the bouncing effect that is induced by cantering/jumping can be extremely painful. She may need a little help with moving a follicle along. Not sure if your vet examined her ovaries by U/S, but I’d start there. And be sure that the vet you are using is skilled in that area. Just the behavior you mention as well as the ventral edema make me go back to the ovarian possibility. Still could be all of these other differentials (stifles, SI, hocks, trim, topline-related), but I’d want to be REALLY sure that the ovaries were normal before going down that route.

NPA of the hind feet can cause soreness up high. It’s always a good idea to check hind foot imbalance when you have hind end soreness. Of course proper balance is important all around, but you would be surprised at how much the hind feet can affect lameness/soreness behind.

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Echoing this. There is an unbelievable body worker in a nearby state who has been preaching on negative palmar angles recently. She is seeing a ton of hamstrings that are as hard as a rock, locked SI areas, and general backend pain that completely resolves once the back feet are addressed.

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