Hind gut ulcers

[flexion]

I’ve been working on my OTTB’s ulcers for about 6mo but have never completely solved the issue and am willing to experiment with different supplements and share results. Money is my main issue and luckily the ulcers are not critical.

I assume there’s both gastric and hind gut ulcers but have never scoped or tested. Symptoms are out-of-mind spookiness, grumpiness, reluctance to eat – all of which disappear when using omeprazole - and excessive groaning/grunting while working (under saddle, on lunge, walking down steep hill) and when lying down – which I haven’t yet found a solution for.

Horse looks great: good weight, good coat, good manure, zero colic. Currently being fed Abler’s Abprazole blue pop rocks (3 packs a day), 2oz U-Gard powder, Probios, and vitamin B-1, served in a tiny bit of rice bran. Hay diet with half alfalfa half grass 2x a day and turnout with buddy 1-3 hrs a day. This has taken care of the spookiness and attitude issues so I believe it’s targeting the gastric ulcers. The groaning hasn’t changed so that’s probably hind gut ulcers. I already tried wheat bran and KER Equishure with no change.

Help me start experimenting to get rid of the groaning. I would like to stay away from expensive commercial products like Succeed and cheap but non research proven herbal remedies. Potential experiments include:

L-glutamine
oat flour
sucralfate

Any ideas?

[SuckerForHorses]

and turnout with buddy 1-3 hrs a day.

This doesn’t answer your original question, but perhaps more turnout would help as well?

[flexion]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;7315281]
This doesn’t answer your original question, but perhaps more turnout would help as well?[/QUOTE]

That would be lovely but it isn’t an option. I tried pasture both 24/7 and daytime only but she stresses out and starts dropping weight.

[PNWjumper]

I’m not sure I would be concerned about groaning, having had several horses over the years who were like that regardless of health (meaning they were all very happy healthy horses). Is there a reason that’s a red flag for you? My TB is a major groaner (he’s also very vocal while being ridden where he likes to squeal and squeak when he’s fresh), he’s been that way since I got him 7 years ago. I had another horse (DWB) who was the same way. He grunted and groaned a lot when he was going down, getting up, jumping jumps…you name it.

I might try oat bran (main ingredient in Succeed) or Sucralfate, but it sounds like you’ve already tried addressing the hind gut via Equishure.

Are there other symptoms beyond groaning?

[ladipus]

Medicine wise …Sucralfate, Misoprostyl

Supplement wise …Smart Digest Ultra has been my go to Alternative to Succeed or KER RiteTrac -both excellent

[EventerAJ]

I also question the groaning. Not saying it can’t be a bad sign if new, but what if it’s just part of the horse’s normal expression? I had a horse who LOVED to roll, and would moan and grunt so much people thought he was colicking. Nope, that’s just him. Given the opportunity and a nice sandy place, he’d roll 5-6 times in a row, and perhaps 10 times total throughout the day (lived out 24/7, or inside half a day during heat). He’d groan while laying down sleeping. He moaned under saddle and grunted, too-- not specifically at stressful times, it could be when he was relaxed or concentrating.

He did have ulcer issues (tense, spooking, leaving food), which I solved with omeprazole, but the moaning/grunting was just part of him, the same before and after the ulcers. I never sought to change it, just accepted it. Unless it’s accompanied by pain symptoms (worried eyes, tense lips, elevated breathing or panting), vocal sounds wouldn’t bother me.

[NancyM]

Well from what I have experienced in the last few years, IF omoprezole works, it is not a hind gut ulcer, it is a front gut (stomach) ulcer. Although, I suppose you could have BOTH. I have one of each, in different horses. Both are turned out 24/7 with other horses, and in light training on and off throughout the year. Neither get grain, only alfalfa/grass hay, pretty much free feed. Both look healthy, fat. For hind guy problems, what worked for MY horse with this issue was a product called “Equine Choice”, which is basically brewer’s yeast, B vitamins and Protease enzyme. I don’t know why the protease enzyme works, but this is the only product I’ve seen that has it. The other stuff is pretty easy to find in several products. This Equine Choice stuff returned my horse to me as she really is, a happy, eager to participate, with a huge try in her type of horse. Nothing else that I tried worked for her.

I think there are many different things that can go wrong in the gut, fore gut and hind gut. What EXACTLY your horse’s problem may be is a bit of a guessing game, trying out different treatments available and find what works for YOUR horse. Good luck!

[rcloisonne]

If he has normal poo and zero colics, hind gut ulcers are highly unlikely.

[flexion]

Thanks for the suggestions! I’ll be looking into Misoprostyl, Smart Digest Ultra, KER RiteTrac, and Equine Choice. It will be interesting to see if anything has an effect.

As for the groaning, I definitely understated it. The groaning isn’t expressive, it’s clearly discomfort. Probably about 50% of a ride is accompanied by noises, which is not normal even for expressive horses.

[SuckerForHorses]

I’ll be looking into Misoprostyl

Let me know if you find it cheap. When I talked with my vet a few weeks ago regarding this for my mare, the dose and the cost made it quite expensive.

“misoprostol 5 mcg/kg. tabs are 200 mcg and there are 60 to a bottle. $83 for the bottle. that works out to 10 tabs twice daily.” – Was my vet’s instruction. That ends up being $83.00 for 3 days worth of misoprostol. That’s $830 for 30 days worth.

[mlb722]

I don’t know if my horse had hindgut ulcers, but sucrafalate made a huge difference for her. Other ulcer treatments did nothing for her.

[Ruby2shoes]

My Cornell vet told me aside from sucralfate time and good feeding mgmt are the only things to take care if hind gut. Her opinion was don’t waste $ on supplements. Not even the expensive highly recommended ones like succeed. So just as low starch and a much forage as possible.

[twelvegates]

I noticed clear improvement in HG ulcers with RiteTrac. As in, I tried to wean horse gradually after 6 weeks, and he stopped eating a few days later, and when I put him back on it, he started eating again. Tried to slowly titrate down eight weeks later, and he again stopped eating. It was noticeable. But just my experience, based on my layman’s observations. YMMV

If interested, I found the best price here (thanks for the tip, Viney!):

http://www.simplypetsupplies.com/pd-rite-trac--66-pound.cfm