Hindgut Ulcers

[Dutchmare433]

My youngster (or he was my youngster, he’s actually 6 this year :eek:)seems to have some hind gut acidosis going on. (The horse was scoped, treated for glandular and non glandular gastric ulcers and had a clean follow up scope late last summer, these symptoms are different.) I am in conversation with the vet about all of this, just looking for what others have done in this situation. He is on Smart Digest Ultra, has been started on misoprostol (for about a week now). Because of the positive results of the misoprostol, vet and I are considering taking him off hay to let him heal.

Those of you who have been in this situation, how long do you keep the horse off hay? A month? 2 months? What do you feed in the interim? He already gets soaked alfalfa cubes, and can reasonably get more, but not to replace his entire hay ration. Would like to try to work with what we have at the farm already. Includes: alfalfa cubes, timothy pellets, dengie, and steamed hay. He will most likely start getting steamed hay once he is back to eating hay.

What do you do with a horse with a confirmed history of gastric ulcers in these cases? And going forward, how do you manage a horse with a history of hind gut ulcers? Keep him on a hind gut supplement…anything else?

[joiedevie99]

60-90 days without any long stem forage, on misoprostol and sucralfate the whole time. Then you can transition to something like Equishure. A mix of alfalfa pellets, timothy pellets, soaked cubes, and dengie would work, although grass is probably the best option. You can also switch to a complete feed for the duration.

[Dutchmare433]

@joiedevie99

60-90 days without any long stem forage, on misoprostol and sucralfate the whole time. Then you can transition to something like Equishure. A mix of alfalfa pellets, timothy pellets, soaked cubes, and dengie would work, although grass is probably the best option. You can also switch to a complete feed for the duration.

Oof that’s a long time…he’s only eating a ration balancer right now, so can switch to TC senior for the duration. That won’t bother his system too much? I am in CT too, so grass is really not an option at present…we’ve got some dead grass and lots of mud though!

[joiedevie99]

@Dutchmare433

Oof that’s a long time…he’s only eating a ration balancer right now, so can switch to TC senior for the duration. That won’t bother his system too much? I am in CT too, so grass is really not an option at present…we’ve got some dead grass and lots of mud though!

Yes. I wonder if we use the same vet. We’ve got lots of mud and dead grass too.

I talked through the protocol with my vet, but my horse ended up only having glandular and pyloric ulcers so we didn’t have to do it. My understanding is that you want to keep it low NSC, but otherwise changing grains shouldn’t be a big issue.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Dutchmare433 - when I went through this with my gelding, we fed soaked hay pellets and/or cubes, beet pulp, ration balancer. (These were the options available to me at that time) (Eventually I did switch to TC Sr., more on that in a minute). Did this for a good 2 mos, but we also had spring grass (wet and soft) which I allowed him on too. When we transitioned back to hay, it was a very small amount at a time, given for one meal of the day only. Built up from there.
This horse tho, was a cribber with crappy teeth. Once he was on a wet diet, I noticed it also improved his weight and he just seemed happier overall. So, I put him on TC Sr, and added a local pellet we have here called Haystack (it’s a blend of beet pulp, alfalfa, timothy, rice bran, flax, canola oil) - I soaked them all together for him, he has lived on that and free choice hay ever since. No more tummy issues either.

One of the things I learned along the way was feed something that “lubricates” the GI tract. The vet said psyllium but honestly I find that ground flax does the same thing. Powdered psyllium that I could buy in bulk and add to the feed was a PITA and expensive.

Feel free to ask for more details if you want.

[Watermark_Farm]

My now 10 year TB came to me as a 4 year old with what turned out to be raging hind gut ulcers, the worst of the worst. I took him off long stem forage for 9 months and had him on pellet mash. With other horses who are not as bad, I found up to 90 days off long stem forage makes a big difference.

For my challenging horse, thanks to COTH I tried oat flour (aka poor man’s Succeed). I picked this idea up here on COTH and it was a game changer. It needs to be the right kind. I buy Bob’s Red Mill whole oat flour on Amazon. The horse gets about 1/2 cup a day. It made an immediate difference. I ran about 100 lbs through him then discontinued and he continues to have tight manure.

[cnd8]

My horse was just diagnosed with right dorsal colitis and I’m in the same boat. I board, so my options are limited. All of the boarding pastures have a roundbale in them, so I have had to panel in a temporary grassy area to keep him separate, keep him on more senior feed (he was already on senior), add oil, and add soaked alfalfa pellets. I am only 8 days in so far, but I’m worried he will lose weight.

[PNWjumper]

When I went through RDC on my horse (documented pretty lengthily on multiple threads - including my own - here), my vet sought out several GI specialists around the country and the resounding answer was that pulling all long stem forage out of the diet was anecdotal and had never been proven to help hind gut ulcers. In my experience, it made my horse FAR WORSE. A couple of days in his normal poop turned to cow pies and then started smelling worse and worse. It was bad enough that my vet (who was not part of the vet hospital who pulled him through the colic and then had me put him on the “hind gut diet”) said to me, “put hay back in his diet and I will pay for it if he colics.” He didn’t. In fact, he was back to normal almost immediately following the diet change back to hay.

With that being said, my guy entered the hind gut ulcer realm because he was on long term (maintenance) omeprazole. So maybe it’s different if the hind gut ulcers come about in a different manner.

I now have a pretty set protocol for ulcery-type horses. Free choice orchard grass, a flake of alfalfa a day, 1oz Apple Cider Vinegar morning and night, SmartDigest Ultra, Ulcer Eraser, and through the show season I put them on THE Equine Edge Gastro Plus.

[cnd8]

@PNWjumper

When I went through RDC on my horse (documented pretty lengthily on multiple threads - including my own - here), my vet sought out several GI specialists around the country and the resounding answer was that pulling all long stem forage out of the diet was anecdotal and had never been proven to help hind gut ulcers. In my experience, it made my horse FAR WORSE. A couple of days in his normal poop turned to cow pies and then started smelling worse and worse. It was bad enough that my vet (who was not part of the vet hospital who pulled him through the colic and then had me put him on the “hind gut diet”) said to me, “put hay back in his diet and I will pay for it if he colics.” He didn’t. In fact, he was back to normal almost immediately following the diet change back to hay.

With that being said, my guy entered the hind gut ulcer realm because he was on long term (maintenance) omeprazole. So maybe it’s different if the hind gut ulcers come about in a different manner.

I now have a pretty set protocol for ulcery-type horses. Free choice orchard grass, a flake of alfalfa a day, 1oz Apple Cider Vinegar morning and night, SmartDigest Ultra, Ulcer Eraser, and through the show season I put them on THE Equine Edge Gastro Plus.

I wish I could do that. We have been chasing a diagnosis with my chronic colic horse for almost a year. We have thought ulcers. We have thought lack of water. We have thought slight impactions. We have thought overreaction to foot pain. The only thing that made us think RDC was a possibility was a period of 2 months colic free that happened to align with a crappy load of hay that the horses were not excited about and barely touched. As soon as a normal quality bale was brought in, colic after colic, up to 3 times in one week–and that’s with the hay net for slow feeding. We are 8 days no hay now and no episodes. I know it is early, but hay seems to be the only common denominator in my case.

[Dutchmare433]

@PNWjumper

When I went through RDC on my horse (documented pretty lengthily on multiple threads - including my own - here), my vet sought out several GI specialists around the country and the resounding answer was that pulling all long stem forage out of the diet was anecdotal and had never been proven to help hind gut ulcers. In my experience, it made my horse FAR WORSE. A couple of days in his normal poop turned to cow pies and then started smelling worse and worse. It was bad enough that my vet (who was not part of the vet hospital who pulled him through the colic and then had me put him on the “hind gut diet”) said to me, “put hay back in his diet and I will pay for it if he colics.” He didn’t. In fact, he was back to normal almost immediately following the diet change back to hay.

With that being said, my guy entered the hind gut ulcer realm because he was on long term (maintenance) omeprazole. So maybe it’s different if the hind gut ulcers come about in a different manner.

I now have a pretty set protocol for ulcery-type horses. Free choice orchard grass, a flake of alfalfa a day, 1oz Apple Cider Vinegar morning and night, SmartDigest Ultra, Ulcer Eraser, and through the show season I put them on THE Equine Edge Gastro Plus.

Any chance you could link to a thread with your description? (I’ve searched around on here and on Google trying to get here and had no luck.) My horse went through the wringer with gastric ulcers over the past year. Two separate episodes with around 60 days worth of treatment each. So it’s possible that it contributed.

Do you do the Gastro Plus in addition to the SmartDigest Ultra? My guy is on the SmartDigest Ultra, just didn’t see a difference until the Misoprostol was started.

@Obsidian Fire How long after you took the horse off hay did you notice a difference.? We haven’t taken him off yet, but it’s on the table as an option.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Dutchmare433 - This was several years ago, and I honestly don’t remember. I do know that we had been treating him ad nauseum for gastric ulcers. So in hindsight, I am sure that contributed.

What I do recall, and to me this makes sense, is that the idea behind pulling long stem forage is to let the gut “rest” - meaning not have to work so hard or produce so much water/mucus to digest/push thru feed. Feeding psyllium, because it turns gelatinous when wet, coats the intestines which helps to protect them while they heal. That is the theory that I am aware of.
I never had any of the problems that PNW Jumper refers to - thankfully!!

I have learned that some strains of grasses have sharper edges to them, and some are softer. We have several strains of orchard grass that are grown and some have a knife-like edge to them. That might have been a contributor to my case.

Since that was the first time I’d ever had anything like this happen, I had to wade through it on my own with minimal help from my vet, I don’t think he was well versed in this either.

With a horse like yours, I’d pull the forage and go completely wet. Cubes, pellets, low NSC complete feed, as much as he’ll eat (or needs). Add psyllium or flax, continue the misoprostol, see where it gets you. In a couple months try introducing the steamed hay you mentioned back into the diet - slowly. Like 1/2 lb at a time. Observe how it goes.