@McGurk is, in my opinion, not giving herself as much credit as she should.
I too wonder why one would name a thread Hmmmm! if their real thought is - wow, this is amazing - and then slap a video and wait for comments.
I do find the part of this discussion where people are saying - It is this breed, so that tension or that part about their poll is OK, to be quite interesting.
As far as the poll- donât look at the top of the neck, look at the actual bone and you will see whether itâs just a cresty neck or if the 3rd vertebrae really is higher. If youâve seen a diagram of a horseâs skeleton the neck vertebrae are not near the top of the neck at all until the poll.
âThat part about their poll is OKâ has nothing to do with breed type but more a misunderstanding of scoring dressage in general, and equine biomechanics in general. And I donât think anyone is excusing tension based on breed. I think theyâre saying that what looks like tension to some is really the natural movement of a more compact horse.
Again, best suggestion to better understand scoring (other than to steadily progress up the levels under a knowledgable trainerâs guidance) is to scribe. Or participate in the L program.
Rightly so!
I think scribing is great and I am very thankful for those that do it, but I do not see it as a place where someone can see something and learn about it. Sure they get to know what the judge is saying, but there is not typically time for the scribe to watch the horse going to visualize what the judge is talking about.
I will add that I have a different volunteer job quite regularly already. No one wants me scribing anyway, I write very slowly.
Really good points. The L program is a great education. With a horse built like this one, look at activity and engagement - both of which he has in spades. He is on or in front of the vertical at all times. And that is why the âpollâ position is not so important. (I am an L grad; between that and judging a ton of schooling shows and scribing, you develop an âeyeâ IMHO.)
I also had the question of what was the purpose of this thread. I was afraid it was to stir the pot. Glad to know that was not it.
I donât watch a ton of freestyle, but the music in this test was refreshing. Itâs nice not having to listen to loud techno beats, usually with jarring musical changes. And at one point the horseâs feet were hitting just perfect on the beat and downbeat.
O! My!!!
I scribe often, really enjoy it and usually learn a lot.
I have audited part of the âLâ judging program many years ago and that was an incredible experience.
But the fact of the matter is, I have only scribed for lower level tests, not FEI levels, and the test rides for the âLâ focused on lower level tests, well, because thatâs what new âLâ graduates end up judging.
So while I consider myself decently educated, I just havenât had the opportunity to hear intelligent critique or comments on FEI level tests and have zero experience with Iberians.
Iâm going to have this conversation with a friend of mine who rides FEI and get his input, maybe get him to sit with me and watch some videos, educate my eye more.
I watch a lot of video of upper level tests, but havenât had the opportunity to sit with a judge and learn how they should be scored.
My experience scribing for Dressage is that Iâm so busy listening to the Judge and writing fast and all the while stressing about making certain Iâm in the right place in the test⊠I donât learn much beyond the importance of getting the geometry right and making a clear difference between and within the gaits. I find I get far more out of a running commentary by a really good Judge or Rider.
i never even noticed that horseâs mouthiness. I was too busy trying to watch: legs/space between legs. Footfalls. And the rider, specifically his wings-out at his elbows and how he worked his spurs.
Seems to me that this horse really enjoys moving laterally. And itâs pretty cool that this rider formulated his freestyle around his horseâs enjoyable moves. ⊠I have a mare like that. It is her reward go-to movement when sheâs done something well that she doesnât like so much (like keeping that left shoulder IN-not leaning and bulging it out).
âSmurfâ was famously used by Capt. Mark Phillips, who said, âWho cares what the smurfs think?!â Heâs also the source of âToughen up, buttercup!â in reference to someone who was upset about her horse being fatally injured on XC.
And accordingly, itâs mostly used on the eventing forums, not theseâŠ
Not really, but it is fine that you did not know what it meant.
According to the forum search function, it is used frequently in this section of the forum too.
I agree with McGurk. I didnât watch the whole thing, so I didnât see the canter portions. That horse looks like a very hot fellow. Tactful ride to be sure. But the busy mouth, the constant, unrelenting horizontal curb tells me all I need to know about the tension. In the pirouettes and some of the tempis, heâs stuck behind. That also denotes tension. But I donât think it makes the ride bad by any means.
Iâm not surprised by the marks. The judges are taking into account that Spanish horses move differently from warmbloods and this oneâs a very good mover. It was a solid and obedient ride and that counts for a lot too. I think the comments were probably âtense,â âtight in back,â and things like that. So what might have been an 8 or 9 was a 7 or 7.5. There was a lot to like about it, but we can nitpick and be armchair QBs all day.
Iâm going to disagree with that. For an experienced scribe there is plenty of time to watch and learn, and judges will often go out of their way to say âlook at thisâ or âwhat do you think made that a 7, not an 8?â IMO scribing on a regular basis is the second best way to develop your eye. The first would be doing the L program.
âCalling adult (lower-level) riders âSmurfsâ originated with Captain Mark Phillips some years ago. His comments caused quite an uproar among the adult riders, who make up the great majority of USEA members. DC McBroom made sure Mark was reminded of his comments at every opportunity by leaving a Smurf doll where he would be sure to encounter it. Since then many adult riders have adopted the Smurf title as their own.â
A few years ago I won an Area II âSmurfie Awardâ.
In the video, I was impressed by how engaged and lowered his hind end was throughout the test.
In the P&P, there was a little bit of unevenness in the rhythm.
The degree of difficulty in that test was astounding. I enjoyed the clear partnership and how this horse was listening for every cue. I think this is a very nice horse; rider too. The horse certainly demonstrates the brio that so many people love about Iberian breeds. I did not enjoy the lip flipping. In my book that is not âconcentrationâ, it is tension or anxiety. Not always a bad thing. At the LL a rider would be heavily docked for such a busy mouth.
I did not see too stiff a neck.
You do need some level of tension at the upper levels, and thatâs where the positive tension vs negative tension discussion begins. You have to create a lot of energy and power for those movements, especially in less naturally expressive horses, and that can lead to some tension because the horse has to be a bit electric.
I know people will bang on about dressage being all about relaxation, and thatâs important, donât get me wrong. You donât want to see a horse thatâs too highly strung, but sometimes I think people are too afraid of tension. Also, tension isnât necessarily a permanent state.
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