Hmmm!

[pony_baloney]

Just my two cents here.

My trainer teaches strictly French classical; I think this horse was trained in a similar way. It’s more about having the horse carry his weight on the hind end, rather than getting the push from tracking up, if that makes sense. (Balance from movement, as opposed to balance through movement.) It’s all a bit new to me, but instead of pushing the horse forwards, there’s lots and lots of lateral work, shoulders/haunches in, etc. that shifts the weight onto the hind end. Riding a horse trained that way is quite a different feeling. My pony becomes sooooo light, and he responds to just the whisper of an aid. My trainer laughed when I told her it was like riding a fluffy balloon–it felt like floating.

So I think this horse doesn’t look as “through” because he’s sitting a bit more than WBs or horses trained the German way.

This probably doesn’t make any sense but maybe someone with more French classical training can explain it better. I just know that I enjoy riding this way so much more, all of my trainer’s horses are light and responsive and are sound into old age. The horse carries his own weight and the contact is lighter.

[Demerara_Stables]

@beowulf

Years ago people said that foam lipstick was desirable and a sign of the horse enjoying the work too. We now know that is not true.

Going to derail the thread again…

When did we learn this wasn’t true? I missed that.

[SamBee]

@pony_baloney

The horse carries his own weight and the contact is lighter.

Isn’t that the goal of all dressage, not just “French classical?”

[sascha]

@beowulf

Years ago people said that foam lipstick was desirable and a sign of the horse enjoying the work too. We now know that is not true.

I wish we didn’t always have to throw out everything we knew when a new idea comes along.

I have a marshmallow fluff producing little nutjob who LOVES to work. I mean she gets extremely pissed off if she gets a day off and has a tantrum when her bestie gets ridden and returned to the stable and little nutjob has done nothing. Bridling her you need to count all fingers after she takes the bit because it’s the Best Chew Toy ever and she must have it right now gimme gimme gimme gimme. Last night, after a few days off, she had marshmallow foam before we even finished the hand walk to the arena.

I’ve worked a couple of others with similar foamy behaviour over the years. All of them had a love of work. Some of them were quite phlegmatic, others, like my current horse, were hotter.

From my experience, I just don’t think we can say all foam is bad. Bit = chew toy type horses are a thing. That said, horses that foam/drool due to bad riding and poorly fitted tack are also a thing.

[sascha]

@Demerara_Stables

When did we learn this wasn’t true? I missed that.

It’s a current thing (possibly based on some sort of maybe science about parotid glands and tension, or merely on observations of tense horses having foam) that equates all foamy mouths with bad riding and overly tight nosebands. Lots of folks have glommed onto it as an absolute truth. For me, it seems very similar to the other parotid gland nonsense where any swelling of the parotids is due to bad riding and can’t possibly have anything to do with allergies or grazing of pasture that is too short.

[Demerara_Stables]

Thank you!

[Jump314]

@sascha

grazing of pasture that is too short

I’ve heard of allergies but not this. Can you explain?

[sascha]

Yup, it’s my theory given observations of my and other horses on the same grazing - poor pasture (which I’m not at all against, but that’s another story lol) that is super short in spring and in times of stress (drought), and late fall seems to be a trigger. My guess is that since they’re (stupidly lol) eschewing the provided hay to get the tasty titbits of pasture nubs, they have to work extremely hard to get them so they’re chewing more, salivating more, etc. We watch it happen year after year.

If they have to stay inside a day during those times, their jaws go down. Back out and they’re up again by evening. Does not matter whether they are working daily or on holiday, ridden on the bit or on the buckle or are not being ridden at all, it’s just a thing.

We missed the worst of drought precipitated grass glands this year due to higher than normal (I’ll see my self out …) precipitation.

Just a note to anyone reading this who knows my horse is, in the words of her vet, “Allergic to life.” My observations come from about 10 years of observing about 8 or so different, normal horses in 2 poor pastures a county apart from each other. Still not a great number and certainly not scientific, but once I started noticing, I could no longer not notice the pattern.

[Demerara_Stables]

Where are you located?

I’ve had swollen parotids in my herd for 3-4 years. I’ve asked 3 different vets why (because on the first horse we all freaked out and then they all got swollen), and no one had any idea. One vet told me to leave the horses in so they don’t get swollen. It’s always in the afternoon - the horses do usually choose to stay in/around the barn at night so they aren’t grazing as much until after breakfast.

I’m in CA

[sascha]

I’m in SW Ontario, Canada.

We treat with Banamine if the horse appears to be uncomfortable. And I hack on a loose rein on days the swelling might be aggravated by dressage work.

It’s frustrating for vets too - they don’t really know any much more than I do, and nobody likes the treatment (stalling during beautiful weather) that actually works.

[Demerara_Stables]

I haven’t had any seem uncomfortable fortunately. Agreed re: loose rein on the really swollen days.

Glad to hear I’m not the only one stumped by it!

[atr]

We always notice it is worse in dry weather when the wind is blowing in dust and pollen.

[quietann]

My older mare has almost always had parotid gland swelling. It’s worse in allergy season. She’s retired now and it’s a little better… so not 100% due to bad riding since she’s not being ridden! I really don’t have a good idea of how much it bothered her when I was still riding her.

[Mondo]

@pony_baloney

This probably doesn’t make any sense but maybe someone with more French classical training can explain it better. I just know that I enjoy riding this way so much more, all of my trainer’s horses are light and responsive and are sound into old age. The horse carries his own weight and the contact is lighter.

There is nothing “light” about the contact on the horse in that video. The curb is horizontal.

[sascha]

@Mondo

The curb is horizontal.

I do wonder if the curb chain is done up so loosely as to have no effect. It’s pretty near horizontal in the extended walk too which seems very weird.

[anon55755751]

Very weird, and there is still an impact at the poll, correct? I thought one objective of the curb chain was to limit the rotation of the curb to 45 degrees.

Also makes me wonder how tight his noseband is.

[sascha]

Yes. I don’t know about the noseband. The only thing I can think of is if the curb has a very wide very low port it wouldn’t matter how loose the curb chain was it in terms of what was going on in the mouth because there would be no port to dig into the roof of the mouth <- my guess only!

[lorilu]

@SamBee

Isn’t that the goal of all dressage, not just “French classical?”

I think the difference is found in the methods used to achieve that sitting/carrying/lightness.

[SamBee]

@lorilu

I think the difference is found in the methods used to achieve that sitting/carrying/lightness.

Is there much difference? I don’t really subscribe to the theory that all these “schools” are fundamentally different, or that classical and competition dressage are two different things. I read a quote somewhere that there is only good dressage and bad dressage. That pretty much sums up my view.

[alicen]

Of note: no lip flapping 2:20 -2:35.