Hock spur

[endlessclimb]

The backstory:

6 yo mare, TB. Been slightly off on her left hind since mid-summer, but would work out of it after her first trot. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on this type of lameness in previous horses, and have learned not to chase minor issues that aren’t causing problems elsewhere. I vowed if it got worse, I would address it.

Fast forward to about a month ago. Started noticing lumbar soreness. Open hock sore on opposing leg showed up. Mare would swap to the left lead whenever she could (when loose, not under saddle). Pooped in her water bucket for the first time in ages. Started rushing fences, bolting on the back side. Dragging the toe. Wasn’t warming up out of it as before, could feel how crooked she was under saddle.

Time for the vet!

We flexed and xrayed many things (most per my request, for other reasons), and found a spur on the left hock. I’m guessing this probably started when she got a bout of cellulitis on that leg due to an imbedded piece of bedding. Since that bout of cellulitis, I added Cu/Zn/E to her diet and knock wood have not had cellulitis since.

We injected the upper and lower joints, it remains to be seen if it solves the lameness. Other things we did: xrayed feet (flat or NPA on all 4, talked to farrier already), ultrasounded the suspensory (my vet thinks I’m crazy but I wanted it confirmed to be a non-issue), xrayed fetlock (no issue), xrayed spine (interestingly, the mild T16/T17/T18 bony changes seen in her PPE when she was 3yo are completely gone, she’s got plenty of room now).

Here’s a picture of Vet’s laptop screen, he will email me the full size copies today (I hope).

This leg also twists before coming off the ground - it was noted in her Hanoverian inspection. I also rewatched all the videos I took of free jumping practice, and noticed her kicking out that left hind when over the fence more often than not.

So, long story to ask - tell me about hock spurs. I imagine this will be an ongoing maintenance thing for the rest of her life? Success stories - non success stories - other therapies that help… give me the works.

[Bonnie2]

The hock spur did not come from the cellulitis, it is the result of wear and tear over time. It will be a maintenance point forever but horses are rarely retired due to hocks these days. Unlikely a hock spur would cause all of the signs you mention so you may have more to figure out. Best of luck!

[JB]

the spur is likely from the hoof issues and the extra stressors that has place on her movement patterns as compensation. This is classic hock arthritis. The “good” news is that at some point these things progress to the point those non-motion joints fuse and the pain is gone. How long that takes is the question.

I’m not great reading xrays (though obviously can see the spur, there’s one on the middle joint too), but there doesn’t look to be a lot of joint space left, which is probably the bigger issue. Ask your vet about that. If that’s the case, if there’s enough space to inject, I’d consider it. If not, then you’re closer to fusion, which is good.

But the feet are probably the root cause of all of this, OR, she just had some funky misstep/slip that you might or might not have seen in the moment, which started a cycle of inflammation and bony deposit (the spurs) which led to this.

[endlessclimb]

There’s joint space, it’s just the angle of the xray. The shot from the front looked good.

We did inject, and I expect to have to regularly from here on out. Agree that the feet are the root cause - I’ve told farrier “do what you have to do”. For the fronts, that might mean wedges as we’ve been working at this for some time. For the hinds, maybe frog support, maybe…?

@Bonnie2 - cellulitis on/around a joint can cause bony changes. She has some on the other hock, which I knew about before I bought her (knew about the bony changes, put together the pieces after I got in touch with former connections). She even has residual effusion from it, looking like a spavin but originated from a nasty case that she ended up at New Bolton over.

[ltmac]

My guy came off the track at age five with about 30 starts. My good friend took him off the track to be her next upper-level event horse when she was riding professionally. She pulled rads on him and found a very small medial bone on the left hock and the vet said it was from racing.

When I bought him a few years later, the PPE showed no changes but the (same) vet told me that he didn’t feel that the horse would have any limitations but to listen to him because one day he might need a little help. Sure enough, a little over two years after that was when I had him injected the first time because he started to give me some signs. I’m also – knock on wood – fortunate that he hasn’t had any other issues that have contributed to it (shoeing/hoof problems, spinal compressions, accidents, sicknesses, etc.). Overall, I’ve had his hocks injected twice and was able to manage any flares with Adequan IM in the four years between the joint injections.

In terms of other maintenance, movement has always helped him. Turnout is a priority for his body and mind I never noticed any response from him when I had him on joint supplements but have recently started him on an MSM trial to which he has responded positively. I don’t do too much in the way of post-work care however it always depends on the many factors such as footing conditions, number of jump efforts or intensity of work done, length of trailer ride, weather/temperature, training schedule, etc. But most days he just gets a few minutes of cold hosing on his hocks and then a liniment bath when I hose him off and turned out. The only routine sign of the spur is that he will kick out a few times with that left hind for hoof picking or farrier work.

I got a pair of the BOT hock wraps during Black Friday but have yet to try them; I understand that they fall down unless there’s a wrap below them to hold them in place up there, so I am planning on trying them the next time he needs to be wrapped behind. Will report back once I try them

[endlessclimb]

My Old Man horse had surgical arthrodesis of both hocks when he was… 13? 14? so I am not unfamiliar with hock problems - just unfamiliar with spurs.

Side note: The Old Man’s experience taught me to not to wait and wait and wait to inject. I wanted to try every other thing before pulling the trigger on the injections, and by that time there was too much bone to get in there to inject, but not enough bone to fully fuse. Don’t make the mistake I did.

[IPEsq]

So the spur was not there on PPE but there were some weird behaviors at that age already with that hind? My vets tend to think that the twisting is a result of some hock discomfort—horses with a little hock soreness will twist—but the twisting does not cause hock pathology.

In general, hock spurs on upper joints would bother me some but not so much on lower joints. But you may need to treat the hock periodically as ongoing maintenance.

[endlessclimb]

No, the bony changes seen on the PPE were on the other hock, which I later found out was the reason she didn’t race. All I knew at the time of purchase was there was some effusion on the right hock, and some weird bony changes, but she was sound on it and it flexed fine. Speaking to former connections, it took them ages to get the cellulitis under control including a stay at the clinic; when they got her back in training she wasn’t into it and wanted snacks instead.

This current issue is on the other hock, the left one.

When I first got her, she would get cellulitis at the drop of a hat. Probably 4 or 5 times, sometimes I could find the cause other times it was unknown. Since I’ve put her on Cu/Zn/E supplements, it has completely stopped, not a single issue since. One of the times she did get cellulitis was when I found a piece of imbedded bedding right below her left hock. When I pulled the piece out, a bunch of pus came with it. Any of the bouts of cellulitis she’s had in my care have been relatively easy to address - I have Dex and SMZs on hand so can start them at the first sign.

Just if you’re curious, here’s her RIGHT hock, not the one with the current spur/issue:

[endlessclimb]

Here’s the current shots of feet. Unshod are hinds. That right front looks different externally, compared to when I purchased her. Not internally, though.

[beau159]

@endlessclimb

6 yo mare, TB. Been slightly off on her left hind since mid-summer, but would work out of it after her first trot. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on this type of lameness in previous horses, and have learned not to chase minor issues that aren’t causing problems elsewhere. I vowed if it got worse, I would address it.

Fast forward to about a month ago. Started noticing lumbar soreness. Open hock sore on opposing leg showed up. Mare would swap to the left lead whenever she could (when loose, not under saddle). Pooped in her water bucket for the first time in ages. Started rushing fences, bolting on the back side. Dragging the toe. Wasn’t warming up out of it as before, could feel how crooked she was under saddle.

Time for the vet!

We flexed and xrayed many things (most per my request, for other reasons), and found a spur on the left hock. I’m guessing this probably started when she got a bout of cellulitis on that leg due to an imbedded piece of bedding. Since that bout of cellulitis, I added Cu/Zn/E to her diet and knock wood have not had cellulitis since.

We injected the upper and lower joints, it remains to be seen if it solves the lameness. Other things we did: xrayed feet (flat or NPA on all 4, talked to farrier already), ultrasounded the suspensory (my vet thinks I’m crazy but I wanted it confirmed to be a non-issue), xrayed fetlock (no issue), xrayed spine (interestingly, the mild T16/T17/T18 bony changes seen in her PPE when she was 3yo are completely gone, she’s got plenty of room now).

This leg also twists before coming off the ground - it was noted in her Hanoverian inspection. I also rewatched all the videos I took of free jumping practice, and noticed her kicking out that left hind when over the fence more often than not.

So, long story to ask - tell me about hock spurs. I imagine this will be an ongoing maintenance thing for the rest of her life? Success stories - non success stories - other therapies that help… give me the works.

Those are some very interesting Xrays. The only experience I have with hock spurs is when they have been there in conjunction with fusion, so they’re just a “normal” part of the fusion process. And the ones my horses have had have been closer to the joint line - not strangly in the middle of the joints like yours.

Odd indeed. So your post was on February 2nd. Was that the day you injected? Is horse any better 9 days later?

Are you doing any sort of joint supplement such as Adequan, pentosan, or similar? Might not be a bad idea.

For an alternative therapy, I myself am pretty dang sold on PEMF. One of my horses was 16 last year and he had his best year ever and probably felt the best in his life. I bought my own system (from Respond Systems) and consistently use it 2-4 times per week.

[JB]

those feet are definitely problematic internally

[endlessclimb]

The lameness is better, but not fixed. Same with the toe dragging. Farrier will be out on the 20th to get started on some serious remedial work.

I have never seen any change with Adequan or the like. We have a pemf guy who comes out every month and a half or so, I’ll sign her up to see if that has any effect.

She’s too young for this crap!

[beau159]

@endlessclimb

We have a pemf guy who comes out every month and a half or so, I’ll sign her up to see if that has any effect.

You might not notice any difference if she only gets one PEMF treatment every month or two. The therapy works the best when it is done on a regular basis. Just FYI.

Not that it won’t hurt to do it and get some sessions because there is still some benefit. I feel like it’s one of those things where you don’t really know if it’s working until you get more long term. I like to think it worked great for my horse Lilly (she was 6 last year) because she never got sore (running barrels) all year. She did was when was 5 years old and I had to inject her then. Was it coincidence? Or did the regular PEMF prevent her from getting sore? I’m excited to see how she does this year. And with my horse Red I mentioned above, he has a plethora of health issues that I’ve finally gotten “managed”. But since adding the regular PEMF, he was clocking faster times than he ever has before. Again… coincidence? (would be really odd to have TWO coincidence with both of my horses…) So I am also really excited to see how he does this year, continuing to use the PEMF on a regular basis.

So it’s not really a “Oh, I did this treatment and now my horse feels amazing.” For me, it was more that they kept the top performance and did NOT get sore like they have in the past. And adding the PEMF was the only thing I changed.

[endlessclimb]

Well, she’s on the schedule for pemf 2/17, shoes get changed up 2/20, so for a little while I won’t know what’s making a difference.

Wish pemf machines weren’t so expensive. I’ve looked into them in the past.

[Equestrianette]

My horse was 3 when he got his PPE done and they found a spur in his right hock that they said was unlikely to cause any issues. However my horse is experiencing some hind end issues and has difficulties maintaining the left lead behind so I’d like it assessed again. Hes turning 5 in April.

[TWH_Girl]

Can you explain why? I’m at a loss with hoof xrays and I’m sure it would help a lot of us to know what you’re seeing

[JB]

@TWH_Girl

Can you explain why? I’m at a loss with hoof xrays and I’m sure it would help a lot of us to know what you’re seeing

On the hinds especially, do you see the convex profile to the face of the hoof wall? See how the ground surface of the coffin bones are sitting pretty parallel to the ground?

The former is caused by the latter. P3 should b at a 3-5* angle, depending on hoof conformation (for normal feet, clubs will be higher), and when they are too low, the tip of P3 starts creating pressure into the face of the hoof wall, causing it to start bulging out, creating that convex profile.

Humans are designed to walk with heels on the same plane as our toes. Horses are not, they are designed for heels to be elevated. When they have a flat (and worse, negative) plane (heels even with or lower than the toe, in terms of the coffin bone) it’s like us if we were walking around with our toes elevated above our heels. You can then imagine the repurcussions all the way up to our angles, then knees, then hips, then back - whole body

The RF is actually in a negative position The LF is basically flat.

If you want to do some more reading, the internet search term would be negative palmar (front feet) plantar (hind feet) angle. NPA

[TWH_Girl]

Very helpful, thanks. I never knew what NPA meant and how it impacted how a horse moves.

[TWH_Girl]

Agree, she’s young. Ugh. I do a bunch of crap for my 21 yr old but that’s expected.

Not sure on hock spurs… My other one is 13 and had hock spurs found at 5 going through diagnostics for his hind end issues. We blocked the hock (I did not see a difference but vet did?) so we injected the hocks, but his real issue was left stifle (found by different vet). It was a combination of ligament and joint issues that have proven difficult to manage.

I think Adequan could be of potential benefit in a young horse. If there is no response to the injections, she’s young enough to keep looking for answers if you can. It definitely can be a rabbit hole though. Hopefully addressing her feet will help too.

[endlessclimb]

@JB the bull nose appearance, particularly on the LH, is largely due to excessive wear from the toe dragging. That’s not to say we don’t have lots to work on, obviously l

I’ll try to get pics tonight. Keeping on mind she’s due for a trim and reset in one week.