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Hocks. Riding a lame horse? And some venting...

Horse Care
#1

I’ve been struggling with lameness with my paint gelding off and on for several years.

He’s only 12, but was shown western pleasure starting at age 2 before I bought him, so he’s definitely got some wear and tear on his joints. Shortly after I bought him he started showing hind end lameness which turned out to be a combination of negative plantar angles and fusing hocks (both confirmed with x-rays). Corrective trimming and hock injections seemed to resolve the issues at least temporarily.

Then one day he was really lame, and I discovered a sizeable curb on his left hock. Had my vet out, who drained fluid and then injected the tendon (HA and cortisone I believe). It seemed to help a little I think, but since then he has be intermittently lame. The hocks can no longer be injected (vet can’t get the needle in the joint anymore, assumption is that they have fused). I had my vet out again at the latest episode, and she did a chiro adjustment and recommended massage, which I also had done. Vet’s thinking is that it may be muscle memory/referred pain from compensating for the hock pain for so long. Tried that and did not notice any improvement. My regular vet’s final suggestion was to try shockwave. I’ve heard good things about it, but I have to admit I’m very reluctant to spend that much money without a firm diagnosis and a reasonable expectation of results. My vet basically threw out shockwave as something we could try since joint injections are no longer an option. My vet did not feel that it was related to the curb.

I decided to get a 2nd opinion. I admit I am no vet but unfortunately I have more than my fair share of experience with lame horses. To me his recent episodes are different from the hock-fusing-related lameness. His hocks no longer have the telltale twisting motion for one, and his hocks are no longer out behind him, no toe dragging, and he has good articulation in the joint. The lameness did not respond to a course of previcox either. Collectively this leads me to believe the current lameness is related to the curb. Sometimes it is more puffy than others, and this seems to coincide with the lameness episodes.

2nd opinion vet did an exam and ultrasounded the curb. The ultrasound actually looked good considering how bad the curb itself looks to the naked eye. 2nd opinion vet also feels it isn’t the curb causing lameness. 2nd opinion vet wants to do further diagnostics (don’t they always…I sometimes miss the days back when we didn’t have so many diagnostic options and vets would just attempt treatments to see if something worked…but I digress). 2nd opinion vet wants me to ride the horse and get him “more lame” so that we can do a block or series of blocks to isolate the source. He didn’t feel that my horse was currently “lame enough” for the block to be helpful.

I’m mostly just frustrated. I’ve spent a small fortune, well over the purchase price of this horse, and I have no idea what is going on. I don’t really have a lot of faith in either of the vets I’ve used right now. I also have reservations about riding a lame horse. I feel that my horse is significantly lame. I’m not particularly good at spotting or feeling lameness so it has to be pretty obvious for me to see/feel it. I’m a little surprised the vet didn’t feel he was lame enough to block. I don’t think it’s particularly fair to ride a horse until they are “good and lame” so we can do the blocks as the 2nd opinion vet suggests. My horse is a generous soul and I feel that would be a good recipe for causing him to become sour. However my regular vet also told me that I need to continue riding him to help the fusion process along.

At this point I feel like my options are:

  1. Give him the winter off while I save up money and try the shockwave, even though we don’t have a solid diagnosis (shockwave is $350 per session, which does not include the sedation and farm call; I was told at least 3 sessions, probably 5).
  2. Get a 3rd opinion. I have no idea from whom. Both the vets I used are highly recommended.
  3. Do what the 2nd opinion vet suggested and ride him until he’s “lame enough” to do the blocking to see if we can determine if lameness is from the hock joint vs. the curb/tendon.
  4. Whine to my husband until he no longer wants to hear about it and go post a thread on COTH.

Sincere thanks to anyone who has read this far, and thanks in advance for any suggestions, commiseration or success stories you might want to share.

#2

What is this horse’s current job with you? How often do you ride when he’s sound?
Have you tested for lyme?
Tried Adequan and Legend?
Can you post a video of you riding him?
What are you feeling when you say he feels lame?
What do radiographs of the hocks show?

I know we all want to do the best by our animals. Please understand there’s a tendency to anthropomorphize our interactions with them, and above all we don’t want to be ‘cruel’. But understand if this horse’s job was to run the plains to seek forage, a lameness that 2 vets are ambiguous toward, and seem to have a difficult time pinpointing… would NOT have folks thinking you’re cruel to ride him through.

If someone tells you to ride the horse until he’s more/ really lame, chances are they aren’t seeing anything truly significant enough to pinpoint. You say yourself there’s conflicting info about the curb… so it’s possible everyone’s attention is drawn to that when in fact, there’s something else going on. Hence the advice to ride him until you “break him”.

Would it be so awful to give him the winter off? What would the conditions be for him if you do take a break from riding? Turn out with a buddy or two in a field with gentle hills or three would not be the worst thing for any horse.

Where are you located? Perhaps folks can give you suggestions of other vets…

1 Like
#3

I, too, am a little suspect of shockwave. I know some folks that swear by it, but it still seems rather new to me.

Anyway. Good questions from Sansena. If you suspect this may not necessarily be related to his preexisting conditions, then maybe it’d be worth testing for lyme. Or at least inquiring with one vet or the other about it as a possibility.

If the budget for vet work is starting to evaporate, at least for the time being, perhaps giving him the winter off and bringing him back come spring will give both of you a break. One of my close friends has had some trouble with her own gelding, though his intermittent lameness doesn’t come with the prior hock related lameness issues your own has had. However, some days he’s head bobbing lame and some days he looks great. She lives in a more remote area, so potentially hauling hours to and then from a clinic would exacerbate this mystery lameness or yield her a vague diagnosis. He’s gone to pasture turn out for the winter and the issue will be investigated come spring, if it’s a continued problem once he’s under saddle again. Has your guy ever had some longer term down time? I know for some show horses, or ex-show horses, they never really get a break.

Alternatively, if you don’t have a spot where you can put him out for a couple of months or you’d prefer to try to resolve the issue, I’d probably go with vet 2’s suggestion. Both vets seem to have recommended you continue riding him. You don’t need to up the ante on anything but I’d imagine sticking to whatever you’re currently doing will either lead to improvement or a more obvious lameness.

Ultimately, if neither of the above is something you’re comfortable with, pursue contacting a different vet. Perhaps if there’s not one directly in your area, you could see about inquiring with a vet school or a specialist over the phone.

#4

If I were in your shoes, my number one priority would be to get a diagnosis. Shock wave can be helpful in certain situations, and we’ve used it plenty of times, but it isn’t cheap.

It might be helpful to know that it is not at all uncommon for a vet to ask that a horse be worked before a lameness exam to ensure the vet can see the unsoundness upon the exam. It isn’t necessary to ride the horse into the ground, just ride him enough every day leading up to the exam that the vet can see what you are feeling in the saddle. Another helpful tool is to take video when the horse is feeling particularly unsound and share it with the vet. The DVM is simply trying to isolate the source of lameness to better direct his diagnostics.

1 Like
#5

I’m going to try to answer below in blue. Hope this works!

#6

I never really considered Lyme. The lameness issue has always been the left hock. I know with Lyme it’s often a moving target type of lameness. I’m definitely in a Lyme and tick-borne illness area so it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to check.

Incidentally, I did have the longe video on my phone that I showed the vet. I have to admit I was a bit puzzled when he deemed my horse not lame enough to block. He looked quite lame to me and I’m no guru. The vet did agree he looked more lame in my video (he was tracking left, so the bad hind leg was on the inside to showcase the shortened stride).

#7

I was in your spot years ago with my Morgan, who had chronic lameness in stifle joint, hock and hips. He was only 10 and had been very lightly worked his whole life.

I had been doing basic dressage with him after purchasing him and it was just too uncomfortable for him. You may have to reconsider any work that puts your fellow into a frame or takes him into circles. My horse and I stopped all that and went to gentle walk/trot on trails.

I retired him after only owning him about 2 years. He was my only horse as well so no more riding for me. He lived to be 26 and was quite comfortable as a pasture pet. It’s certainly a tough call.

I hope you are able to get a diagnosis and I wish you well.

#8

I snooped through some of your posts, in search of a video of him. I saw his sale video when he was in the western show circuit, then later with you in a lesson.

Although he seemed greatly improved in the lesson with you, everything about this horse tells me he’s a bit sore all over. Mincing steps when ridden as a youngster (sore front feet), and later, reluctance to move forward with you riding dressage.

Horses the are that sulky off the leg are trying to tell us something. I suspect his stomach and/ or back is bothering him.
What does the vet say when they palp his back? Lumbar? Or do they just watch him go, do flexions, and blocks?
A good equine sports medicine lameness vet will start with an acupressure point exam that can offer initial clues as to what’s going on in the rest of the body. Good Luck.

ETA: I see you responded to my Adquan/ Legend question. At what intervals did you give the Adequan/ Pentosan? (i.e.: loading dose, then frequency thereafter) Have you ever tried Adequan AND Legend at the same time?

#9

What’s this guys breeding? Anybody ever take an xray of the stifle?

1 Like
#10

I can only address the hock fusing part. I bought a QH who was about 12, and on his PPE, the vet noted that one of his hocks was fusing. He also had some scarring at the front of that hock, which indicated an old injury. He was a kind quiet horse that I had on trial, and I bought him because these days, I tell me vet that my bones are more important than the horse’s.

At no time was this horse “lame”. He would come out a bit stiiff, and liked one canter lead better than the other. But he was ok to ride. Wit the caveat that I don’t do much these days, and he gets a lot of turnout. With time and turnout, and injections, his hock fused completely (As I recall, certainly not more than a year), and he is fine now. But again, in this case, the hock fusing issue was a management issue, not a lameness one.

I will also note that I do love QH’s but I avoid the ones that were worked at those very young ages. That slow canter they are made to do seems to ruin their hind ends.

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#11

Oh yes! I do have video from a lesson back in August. (Taken by my distracted 11yo daughter, but it is the best I have).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAG1aRwMpRE In this one, towards the end you can clearly see the twisting of that left hock. The twisting has subsided. But he is still very short strided, moreso on the LH than the RH.

And in this canter video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WojJ6h_M5jQ you can see how poorly he tracks up.

My vet recently did do an allover hands-on exam and thorough adjustments as she is a chiro trained vet. Both she and the massage therapist did not find anything upon palpation of his back. I am certain his saddles all fit well (I have a dressage, hunt seat and western saddle for him). There were no significant notes in her chiro workup sheet (she always gives a paper with a horse diagram and marks areas that were “out”). It was at the end of that visit that she suggested the massage therapist and possible shockwave.

Both the Adequan and pentosan were given every 4 days. The adequan was given every 4 days until I ran out, and the pentosan was given every 4 days for the first 4 doses, then once a week thereafter until I ran out. No discernible difference with either so we did not continue. I never used Legend with this horse, but I did with a previous gelding. I can’t do IV injections myself, and my vet never suggested it. My vet strongly favors intra-articular injections over all else, but we tried the adequan and pentosan after joint injections were no longer an option.

#12

His breeding:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/just+two+rocki

Have not x-rayed stifles. Only hocks and hooves.

#13

His breeding:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/just+two+rocki

No x-ray of stifles. Only hocks and hooves.

#14

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/just+two+rocki

No x-ray of stifle, only hocks and hooves.

I hope this one comes through, I’ve tried to reply but it keeps telling me my post is unapproved?

#15

I keep trying to link it but my post keeps saying unapproved. Registered name is Just Two Rocki, it’s on allbreedpedigree

No stifle x-rays, just hocks and hooves.

#16

It’s worth getting a lyme test done. At the very least you can rule it out, and it’s not expensive to do. I don’t think I’d want to turn him out without getting it done, just in case he does have it and needs to be treated for it. (But I have had way too much experience with lyme, so I may simply be paranoid).

I actually think that if you’re really dealing with arthritis, then the horse is better off being lightly worked on a regular basis. You might not want to ask for collection, but rather do a lot of walk-trot on a loose rein, on the trails, etc. Basically stay within the horse’s comfort zone.

My previous horse, a TB mare, also had various assorted lameness issues, some subtle, some less so over several years. She did have lyme (a couple of times), and that played into it. But there were non-related lameness issues as well. I never found that Adequan helped. Joint injections did help, but it sounds like they’ve stopped helping your guy. I did do two session of shock-wave on her and found that it helped. It wasn’t a miracle, but it definitely helped.

You might also (if you’re not already) feed the horse a supplement with a healthy dose of HA in it. You could (alternatively) give the horse Conquer gel over the next couple of weeks and see if it helps. My horse did respond to oral HA; again, not a miracle, but it helped.

Good luck.

#17

Well, I vote options 1 and 4 :slight_smile: In all seriousness, I would keep horse on Equioxx or other anti inflammatory. I’ve heard Meloxicam has worked well for horses. Also know that depending on the horse’s size, one Equioxx tablet may not be sufficient and you may need to do 1.5- 2 tablets. Not sure how long your trial was.

I’d give him the winter off, do groundwork and groom him, and give yourself some time and space away from chasing false leads. See where things go naturally. In the spring you can decide if you’d like to go further with treatment or testing.

Went through 2 yrs of lameness stuff with my 7 yr old and I know how all consuming it can be. Sometimes stepping back provides clarity.

#18

To me he looks like a typical stock horse. The canter video does not look that bad. He has space between his hind legs in each stride - he’s not ‘bunny hopping’. These horses were not bred to have the big long reachy strides you would see in a TB or WB.
Based on my own experiences, I’d see about the stifle being injected. Also, I would look into his back. Being started at such a young age in a western saddle and all that is hard on them.
I had one like him - if you gave him a long rein he’d move out okay, but soon as you tried to connect him he’d quit you. Behind the leg, refused to be forward, etc. He had bad hocks, and they started at a pretty early age. I also suspect his stifles were bad too. I retired him (at age 7) to a gal who wanted to weekend trail ride.

Good luck.

1 Like
#19

I feel your pain. With my guy, we pursued joint problems for 6 months. Now, with nothing helpful from all we have done there, the vets are looking at soft tissue (specifically the suspensory). His x-rays led to an ultrasound which is leading to an MRI (next week).

You have not mentioned any soft tissue work up. Have you pursued that course? My guy is not 1/2 as lame as yours is in the Aug video. Is your horse still that lame, or has he gotten a lot better now? If he is still that bad, I cannot imagine a vet not being able to see a big difference when you block him (but be wary of blocking — Goobs went sound when his hock was injected, so we got sidetracked, thinking it was a bone/joint issue. Turns out the injection must have “dripped down” enough to deaden the top of the suspensory — but that was not considered at the time.).

I am dragging my boy back and forth to the vet school; they have a lot of machines that local vets do not have — like the MRI (and, last spring, he also had a full body nuclear scan to see if there was a secondary problem that was causing problems) — Have you considered a full (multi-day) work-up at a large animal vet school?

#20

Do you ever lunge him? It would be interesting to see how he moves. He’s definitely stiff in the rear but I don’t consider him to be severely lame. These are the tough ones where you know something is off but it’s not bad enough to diagnose.

If you want to treat without further diagnostics, I’d try injecting stifles since the hocks aren’t possible.

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