Holding onto grab strap on saddle - legal or not?

[PennyRidge]

Does anyone remember reading a fun poem that was written by a fairly well-known dressage professional (for some reason I think it was Bent Jensen) and published in either Dressage Today or USDF Connection? It was entitled “Ode to the Bucking Strap” or something like that. It was fabulous.

It is legal, and quite frankly could be interpreted as a sign of intelligence when a rider chooses to add one to the saddle. I was teaching a student of mine just the other day and I commented to her on how nicely she went from posting a big trot to sitting that same trot without disturbing the horse’s movement. It was a BEAUTIFUL transition from posting to sitting trot on a horse with loads of impulsion. She looked fantastic. She is a good rider anyway. Her response to my praise was, “I grabbed the bucking strap to help me get down into the saddle better.” I NEVER saw her grab that strap. It was very subtle, and she wasn’t there long.

Like I said, it’s a sign of intelligence, if you ask me.

[Sandy_M]

LOL. The only “extra” equipment I use on my sometimes rambunctious four-year old is my eventing vest. And yes, I did use it at a dressage show. (Rules say OK, but I also checked with the judge, who had no issues with it.) I know that doesn’t sound like the thing one should wear while “doing dressage,” but y’know, first show, scary arena (outdoor, in the middle of a state park at the edge of a big city - i.e., lots of hikers/bikers, etc.) discretion seemed the better part of valor.

[CTM]

Just a question -H/J people never have grab straps except for little beginner kids. Why do so many dressage people have them?

[XTAC]

I have had a bucking stap on my saddle since I first became aware of them…probably a dozen plus years ago. I am currently showing 4th level on a mare who has a hard to sit extension. As I turn on to the diagonal I grab the strap with my little finger and anchor myself a little bit. I have never had a judge or anyone else comment on it…I don’t think anyone has ever noticed. I can’t even see myself doing it in pictures.

[dressurpferd01]

Then you need to learn how to sit correctly, plain and simple. If you can’t sit your horses extended trot (which, if done correctly with a swinging back, should be easy to sit), then you need some lunge lessons. This is the problem with dressage in this country. Very few people learn to sit correctly. The Germans are on the lunge line until they have an independent seat, which the vast majority of Americans DON’T have.

[JRG]

This is an interesting thread. I have used a bucking strap before, while I was training green beans. I never thought you could use it in a test.

Quite frankly, and flame suit firmly zipped…I don’t think you should be able to use it other then when the horse is being disobedient and the rider needs it. I have a hard time with it being used as a crutch to get through a movement. JMHO.

[dressurpferd01]

[QUOTE=JRG;3504100]
This is an interesting thread. I have used a bucking strap before, while I was training green beans. I never thought you could use it in a test.

Quite frankly, and flame suit firmly zipped…I don’t think you should be able to use it other then when the horse is being disobedient and the rider needs it. I have a hard time with it being used as a crutch to get through a movement. JMHO.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my thoughts. I’ve used them on SUPER-green horses that I started that might have a buck in them, but to use it to cover up the fact that your seat is lacking…no bueno.

[enjoytheride]

I wonder where all these people board at that have judge’s booths, water tractors, chain arenas, porta pottys, and letter boxes with flowers!

I think it’s sheltered to say a horse shouldn’t spook at a show if you did your work at home. It’s a show, it’s new and scary, and even the best horse might spook a bit until it becomes old hat. I have bucking straps on both my dressage and jumping saddles. I use them for sitting trot at home and for the occasional spook or buck.

[Dixon]

[QUOTE=CTM;3503971]
Just a question -H/J people never have grab straps except for little beginner kids. Why do so many dressage people have them?[/QUOTE]

The controversial answer that people will throw rotten tomatoes at me for saying is that dressage riders are more timid. One reason some people choose dressage over h/j is that theoretically the horse never leaves the ground, at least at the levels most people ride. Safety straps are more attractive to timid riders, because it gives them a sense of comfort to grab something if the horse steps outside the two-dimensional plane. H/J riders tend to expect and learn to deal with, if not welcome, a bit more three-dimensional movement and air-time from their horses.

The less controversial answer is that h/j riders are less focussed on sitting deep and physically pulling themselves down into the saddle. When they extend the trot, they post. When they hand gallop, they get up into half-seat or two-point. Now and then, particularly during lounge lessons a h/j coach might ask the student to grab the pommel to accomplish a deeper seat, but it’s something the rider does with one hand, not trying to keep that hand on the reins at the same time as it sounds like dressage riders do with their safety straps.

Plus, the shorter stirrup length of h/j gives the rider a bit more security when the horse gets silly. Sometimes lightening the seat and bracing against the stirrups can get the rider through bucks, crow-hops, etc., whereas dressage riders’ stirrups are so long that there’s little to brace against or stand up on. That said, dressage saddles are generally way deeper and more secure than h/j saddles, so that added security can help counter the longer stirrups.

[ltw]

I have ridden my whole life in all disciplines - eventing, show jumper, hunters, foxhunters, dressage. I have a grab strap on every saddle. I see nothing wrong with it. I sit very well and have a good, strong, solid seat.

Smetimes I might take a green or explosive young horse to a show. It is often their first time out. I had one that loved to buck really, really big and hard in the canter departs. A real back cracker.

She needed mileage and ring time to work through her tension. I grabbed that bucking strap in every canter depart the first few shows. So what???

Her canter departs were explosive, but she needed to get through that issue. She did, she scored very well and ended up in the USDF top 2 or 3. So what!! No big deal. It is often part of showing tense, young, spooky horses. I think that this should be a rider choice for safety reasons.

Now, if I saw a rider grabbing it the entire way through their sitting trot, that definitely would affect “Rider Score” if I was the judge. But, for safety sake with a young, exuberent horse, the judge should understand that 3,4 and 5 yr olds have to start somewhere.

[quietann]

[QUOTE=mp;3503586]

For some horses (like mine), getting banged in the mouth just makes them worse, so it really is a good idea to avoid it. Sitting DOWN and using one rein to ask for a bend is the best way to get his mind back. Then we proceed as though nothing happened. No cooing or coddling. Just business as usual.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. My mare is one of these, too. She is a looky girl and does the 20 foot sideways teleport if she actually spooks, and if she is really upset she will half-rear. I grabbed her mouth a few too many times before I learned to grab mane (to get her out of the rear, and luckily she has a full, long mane) and then DRIVE HER FORWARD. I don’t have a grab strap, but I really should. I agree, however, that using it in competition to improve the execution of a required movement shouldn’t be allowed.

[ise]

MP - Thanks for your comments.

Dixon seems to have a 1-2-3 - all fixed attitude. Not sure how long she’s been riding or how many young horses she’s worked with but there’s NEVER one recipe that works for every horse. Some horses get WORSE if you take more contact.

And for the person you stated if you need a grab strap then you can’t sit the trot. NOT SO. Sometimes - especially with young horses - they are a little unbalanced and you can get lurned around. And as someone else stated - I’d rather see someone hold a grab-strap than bang on the back with pizza cutter spurs.

And I don’t agree with Dixon that “safety straps are more attractive to timid riders” I think they are more attractive to SMART RIDERS. NEVER SAY NEVER. Don’t think for a minute that there isn’t a buck or bolt or spook that you can ride through. Because sooner or later - reality will catch you…

I have the straps on all of our saddles and like helmets they may not always be necessary but BY GOD they are there. I never had a serious back injury from a horse until I was past 40 and it almost made me quit. It wasn’t because I can’t sit the trot, wasn’t because I don’t ground train them and keep them focused under saddle - it’s because SOMETIMES THINGS HAPPEN.

[lizathenag]

I have had a strap on my saddle (both of them) for years. Charles de Kunnfy used to encourage everyone to grab saddle or pad now and then.

and pride goes before a fall, I think.

[SGray]

@CTM;3503971

Just a question -H/J people never have grab straps except for little beginner kids. Why do so many dressage people have them?

the dressage seat is a ‘deep’ seat rather than a ‘half-seat’ - it is quite different

[Sonesta]

I call it the “Oh, sh*t strap” and it’s on all the saddles here, mine and the students. You may never need it, but I like knowing it’s there for an emergency.

As for using it in the shows, I’ve only ever noticed one rider do that. And that was an older rider at Grand Prix on her extensions.

[mp]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;3506161]

I have the straps on all of our saddles and like helmets they may not always be necessary but BY GOD they are there. [/QUOTE]

I never thought of the strap in the same category as a helmet, but it makes sense. To be honest, I can’t ever remember grabbing it to stay on or to sit a trot (my horse isn’t an extravagant mover).

But I have used it as a reminder to keep my hands steady, something perhaps only us chicken sh!t dressage riders care about. Those devil-may-care h/j folks ride with such abandon, I don’t suppose they bother with persnickety details like that.

[Sandy_M]

Well, now I am a former eventer (through Prelim), so I generally regard dressage as pretty “non-life-threatening.” Then I bought a 2.5 year old…A year and a half later, while I don’t use a bucking strap, I sure do wear that vest (and helmet!). Now, the way my guy reacts when he DOES blow (hasn’t happened in many, many months knock on wood), I don’t know that a bucking strap would do much good. The first time he really bucked with me, I reacted as I always have with buckers - I tried to pull his head up. And up it came - and kept on going, then, with me back on my pockets, he plunged forward and twisted me off over his shoulder - all in a fraction of second, I swear. Lesson learned. Now when he tries to buck - my immediate reaction is an NH one - pull his head around (not up) and as they put it, “disengage the HQ.” It works pretty effectively, but I tend to need both hands (and my inside leg), so I doubt a bucking strap would help much.

[lizathenag]

actually my strap is quite long. I can move my hands around quite a bit. I think of it as a grounding strap.

[Dixon]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;3506161]
Dixon seems to have a 1-2-3 - all fixed attitude. Not sure how long she’s been riding or how many young horses she’s worked with but there’s NEVER one recipe that works for every horse. Some horses get WORSE if you take more contact. . . .

And I don’t agree with Dixon that “safety straps are more attractive to timid riders” I think they are more attractive to SMART RIDERS. NEVER SAY NEVER. Don’t think for a minute that there isn’t a buck or bolt or spook that you can ride through. Because sooner or later - reality will catch you…

[QUOTE]

Well, to address your ad hominem attack, been riding 35 years and counting, and worked with scores of green-broke horses, mostly OTTBs. Started at least 20, back in my more elastic days. I’m about training and method, not just staying on, and it’s important to nip misbehavior in the bud. When a horse spooks to the side, you use all your aids to move the horse back over to where he’s supposed to be. Takes both hands. And I find the mane quite adequate to grab when necessary – there’s little chance of pulling the horse backwards on top of you when grabbing mane – it physically requires you to lean forward, which encourages the horse’s front end to stay down.

Like Sandy said, you pick up a bucking horse’s head, and that usually requires two hands too. Just trying to “hang on” to the tack by way of a grab strap teaches the horse nothing except maybe that you’re not an easy passenger to dislodge, and even then hanging on to the saddle is not a great technique. There are some rare times when a horse bucks and I’ll encourage the horse to continue bucking until he tires of it, and in those situations I sit way back with my hands up and WELL clear of the saddle. No way would I want a hand caught in a strap.

But hey, you keep grabbing that strap instead of stopping/correcting the behavior, and you will indeed need that strap.

[Dixon]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;3506161]
Dixon seems to have a 1-2-3 - all fixed attitude. Not sure how long she’s been riding or how many young horses she’s worked with but there’s NEVER one recipe that works for every horse. Some horses get WORSE if you take more contact. . . .

And I don’t agree with Dixon that “safety straps are more attractive to timid riders” I think they are more attractive to SMART RIDERS. NEVER SAY NEVER. Don’t think for a minute that there isn’t a buck or bolt or spook that you can ride through. Because sooner or later - reality will catch you…[/QUOTE]

Yes, sometimes things happen, and real riders try to teach the horse something instead of just hang on. To address your ad hominem attack, I’ve been riding 35 years and counting, and worked with scores of green-broke horses, mostly OTTBs. Started at least 20, back in my more elastic days. I’m about training and method, not just staying on, and it’s important to nip misbehavior in the bud. When a horse spooks to the side, you use all your aids to move the horse back over to where he’s supposed to be. Takes both hands. And I find the mane quite adequate to grab when necessary – there’s little chance of pulling the horse backwards on top of you when grabbing mane – it physically requires you to lean forward, which encourages the horse’s front end to stay down.

Like Sandy said, you pick up a bucking horse’s head, and that usually requires two hands too. Just trying to “hang on” to the tack by way of a grab strap teaches the horse nothing except maybe that you’re not an easy passenger to dislodge, and even then hanging on to the saddle is not a great technique. There are some rare times when a horse bucks and I’ll encourage the horse to continue bucking until he tires of it, and in those situations I sit way back with my hands up and WELL clear of the saddle. No way would I want a hand caught in a strap.

But hey, you keep grabbing that strap instead of stopping/correcting the behavior, and you will indeed need that strap.