These two are kept inside when I am at work but are sometimes left out for a couple of hours if I am doing errands on a nice day. By the way, these are not dainty-one is a solid 60lbs and the other 70lbs. Friends of mine have had more problems with their terriers than I have had with these two.
[QUOTE=Preposterous Ponies!;8070534]
Uh, yes they are. You keep them INSIDE.
My springer is absolutely wonderful with our cats and rabbits. But I don’t think for a second that an outside cat would be safe. She is encouraged to go after birds, so I could see her making the “outside animal” vs “indoor animal” distinction. Would I feel bad? Yes. Would I get rid of the dog? Hell no.
You let your cat outside, barn cat or not, you expose them to great number of risks. It’s not the responsibility of others to look after your (general you) cat.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with this. Both our older dog and younger dog live peacefully with 2 indoor cats and 2 house rabbits. All six animals get along quite happily and there is frequently a multi-species fur pile or grooming session. I don’t let the dogs and rabbits mingle unsupervised, mainly because the bunnies would most likely sneak off to chew on power cords, but there’s been no aggression or fixated behavior from anyone. They also quite like children and are popular with the neighborhood kids.
Outside however, the dogs are most definitely not trustworthy around small animals. The older dog has killed numerous small animals while outdoors, and while the younger dog hasn’t so far, it’s been because of a lack of coordination on his part, not a lack of desire. Since he’ll be lure coursing once he’s older, his prey drive outdoors gets high praise and lots of rewards. I have no doubts that he’ll kill some small animal outside once he’d reliably figured out how his paws work. The dogs aren’t normally in a situation where they’re faced with someone’s pet cat being a potential prey item, but if they did, it would never occur to me to get rid of the dogs.
Especially if someone’s loose animal came onto my fenced property I would feel no obligation to do anything other than sympathize with the loss of their animal. I would certainly not be offering to help with vet bills.
Dogs are predators. It’s unreasonable for someone to expect an unleashed, unsupervised dog to not go after prey in its own territory.
You wouldn’t expect a cat not to kill a mouse would you?
Yes they can be trained to not go after prey, and to recognize a human from “prey”. If my dog was supervised I would absolutely expect him to not go after a cat. In his yard unsupervised? Not so much.
My dogs are fine with my indoor/outdoor cats. I would not be surprised if either dog killed a strange cat. I also have chickens and goats that are left alone. (okay, the young Doberman still chases the chickens now and again but hasn’t killed one in a year.) Both dogs will kill and eat rabbits.
Even if I had the most cat killing dog on the planet, I would not punish or consider getting rid of him/her if he/she killed something that came into his/her fenced yard. If you want your cat, dog, rabbit, whatever to be safe, keep them at home.
[QUOTE=dacasodivine;8070585]
Even if I had the most cat killing dog on the planet, I would not punish or consider getting rid of him/her if he/she killed something that came into his/her fenced yard. If you want your cat, dog, rabbit, whatever to be safe, keep them at home.[/QUOTE]
I am most emphatically a cat person, not a dog person. But I agree with this emphatically. This is very sad, but I don’t see any reason to take action against the dogs. Others have made the same analogy - if someone’s pet bunny or gerbil wandered into my home and was killed by my cat, I wouldn’t hold it against the cat.
OP, if you apologized, I think that’s all you could do. Your dogs were in their own yard, fenced, and the cat was unwise to wander over there. Two dogs will do surprising things that a single dog wouldn’t do alone. I’m sorry that this happened all around - sad for the neighbor’s loss but also I recognize that this might strain the relationship with you.
When I was a child of about 10 or 11 I had a kitten I loved. I was an awkward kid and the kitten was a comfort to me. The neighbors brought home a teenaged Cairn terrier pup one day and after about two weeks, everyone in that family just sorta forgot about him. No one ever played with him or let him inside. They just threw food at him and that’s it.
One afternoon I came home to that dog in our fenced yard and my dead cat. The terrier had dug under the fence to get to her. I knocked on the neighbor’s door and told them. The father literally laughed and said it couldn’t have happened that way, despite me showing him where the dog had dug under the fence. My folks did try to talk to them about it and got the same response. Isn’t that jerky behavior?
And as a total aside, one afternoon the other neighbor’s cleaning lady looked outside and saw someone breaking into the back of our house. She thought that the police would have a swifter reaction to someone who sounded white on the phone, so she ran to the above neighbor’s house and pounded on the door, pleading with them to call the police. She was terrified that we were trapped in the house with the burglars (though we were all away). The neighbors cracked the door, said they couldn’t help and then closed the door on her. Can you imagine? This poor woman, doing a brave and kind thing, being treated like that? All these decades later and it still makes my blood boil!
(sorry - that was quite an aside!)
I grew up with the World’s Best Kid Dog. She was a hound that we dressed up, had pull sleds, laid on, and gently abused when the parents weren’t watching. She was totally maternal and never lifted a lip or objected in any way.
But she was hell on small animals! I saw her chase, catch, and kill a squirrel in our yard. As a kid, I was appalled, but now I understand the difference between prey drive and a human-aggressive dog. Fortunately we had a house cat, so she did not perceive cats as prey. But if she didn’t have that experience, I have no doubt she would catch and kill a cat.
[QUOTE=marianne;8070481]
Thanks for all the replies. We used to have cats but both my son and I am highly allergic to cats. So our dogs have been “catbroken”. I have no idea what set these two off; if they played off each other or what. They are good on leash around small animals and very obedient. This was in their yard that is well maintained. As for those who would not keep such a dog, what would you do with them?-put them to sleep? rehome so that is someone else’s problem. We have had these two for the last 4 years and this is the first time this has happened.[/QUOTE]
Even dogs that are friendly to their “own” family cats will often attack strange cats, especially if they come into your yard. I had a dog that loved our cats. yet if a strange cat came into the yard he’d go after them.
[QUOTE=JoZ;8070396]
I’m not going to be popular here. I wouldn’t keep a cat-killing dog no matter how or where the dog got access to the cat. There are strong reasons to keep a cat indoors – in some areas it might even be the law. In places where it is NOT the law, I think there should be the expectation that my neighbor’s dog will not kill my cat. Because dogs do not, in general, kill cats.
The law is on your side, even for vet bills and such. I personally couldn’t live with myself OR the dog.[/QUOTE]
The dogs were on their property and in their own fenced yard. Blame for
this lies with the cat owner. I happen to like cats and raise my dogs with them, but there are numerous breeds which are known for not being great with cats.
If a pet rodent got loose in your home and the resident cat killed it would folks blame the cat?
A sympathy card is certainly appropriate. But I wouldn’t feel guilty.
I’m a cat person, and while it breaks my heart: your dogs were in YOUR yard, properly contained.
The cat was not properly contained.
Very, very, VERY sad. But not your fault and not your responsibility.
A true apology and some, er, cookies or something would go a long way to
having a good relationship with your neighbour.
We have dogs that will get on fine with their own cats, but not so sure if one showed up in the yard - usually, the cats are so aware of their surroundings and the escape routes the just jump out of the way if even we appear.
Too bad about your dog OP - you must feel dreadful…but not your fault, or problem to pay the bill, IMO.
Just thinking - the cat was new and had not explored its exit strategy. We have lived here for 37 years or so and never lost a cat or had one attacked
here - and there are coyotes out back.
OP - Not your fault, not your responsibility since your dogs were fenced, but as a human being, I would do whatever I could do to show remorse and make peace with the neighbors. It’s a terrible mistake they made, and they paid a very high price. 
For those that say they’d never own a cat killing dog, I just don’t think you can tell. Dogs are predators, any dog can be capable of it in the right situation. I lost one of my cats last fall to my own dogs. Well…I had 2 dogs at the time and my adult daughter had moved back home from out of state about 6 months earlier. She has 4 smallish SC ditch dog types. All dogs had lived with cats their entire lives, she had a cat, I had several. Everyone seemed to get along. I came in from feeding the horses to find my cat dead on the floor and several of the dogs had scratches, bites and blood on them. I have no idea how it came about, what event made them turn on the cat. The only thing I can think is that some sort of pack mentality kicked in and she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The 3 other cats have lived in my bedroom/attached bath ever since. It’s sad, but I can’t take the risk. Once my daughter moves out, I may try to let them out again, my own dogs sleep in my room at night and take no interest in the cats.
[QUOTE=MsM;8070674]
I grew up with the World’s Best Kid Dog. She was a hound that we dressed up, had pull sleds, laid on, and gently abused when the parents weren’t watching. She was totally maternal and never lifted a lip or objected in any way.
But she was hell on small animals! I saw her chase, catch, and kill a squirrel in our yard. As a kid, I was appalled, but now I understand the difference between prey drive and a human-aggressive dog. Fortunately we had a house cat, so she did not perceive cats as prey. But if she didn’t have that experience, I have no doubt she would catch and kill a cat.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, not all dogs recognize babies & toddlers as the same humans that are the adults they’ve learned to respect. So the line can certainly get blurred when they hear the little baby making squeaky sounds very similar to a dying rabbit.
OP: I’d reconsider leaving my dogs out unsupervised after this incident. All of the animals are on your property, so legally I assume you’re fine, but I would want to take preventative measures to prevent them from killing more cats. Even if you just look at it from a selfish perspective, a good swipe of the cat’s paw across your dog’s face can easily mangle an eyeball.
Its too bad those dogs killed that cat, but its certainly not your fault, nor the dogs. What if a squirrel went across your yard? Likely your dogs would kill that too.
Its what dogs do. Which is why you are responsible enough to have them in a fenced in yard. Any cat owner that just puts their cats outside without containment have the high likelyhood that one day they will not come home.
This is no reason not to leave your dogs unsupervised in your yard. Thats ridiculous. They are in their own yard. If people dont want their cats killed, dont let them out.
I have basenjis, read very high prey drive. They almost caught the neighbor’s cat going over our fence and the cat had to have a portion of her tail amputated. The neighbor said “maybe she’ll stop teasing your dogs now.” A stray wasn’t as lucky and it took my husband with a garden hose to break up the fight. If a cat is insistent on coming over a 5 foot fence to get in a yard with two dogs, I say it’s natural selection at work.
Sad, but not your fault OP. I would sympathize, not apologize, and keep on keeping on.
OP, you did all you could do, and shouldn’t feel obligated to do anything further.
That said, it is very unnerving to see one domestic animal kill another. My neighbors’ stupid dogs came over here and dragged my old barn cat out from under a bush where he was sleeping and killed him. I was inside and heard the commotion and the cat screaming. My dogs were in the house with me. By the time I got out there and my dogs chased the other dogs off, the cat was gasping his last breaths. I WAS SO PISSED OFF! My neighbors’ answer to the tragedy was to give me three kittens, two of which THEIR DOGS KILLED before they even grew up, and the third went to live with my mother.
The issues with those dogs/neighbors is neverending. I hate their damn dogs.
BUT, your dogs were contained and the cat was in THEIR yard, so it’s really the cat’s owners’ fault that their cat is dead now. Harsh lesson learned.
There was a sweet old black lab at a barn where I used to board. Just the nicest dog. Except he’d kill a cat in a heartbeat. I didn’t know this early on, and there was a little kitten in the tack room that someone had found. The lab came in the tack room with me, nothing weird about that, picked that kitten up out of its bed like it was a hamburger and ran out with it. We got the kitten away before he could kill it, but it died later. My friend who ran that place lived in a house on the property. (The lab was the farm owner’s dog, not hers). She had an inside cat. The cat got out on the porch for just a split second one day and the lab was there. He grabbed the cat and killed it on the spot.
So freaky because he was SUCH a sweet dog in ever other respect. Loved kids, loved his tennis ball, and was just a good boy.
My own dogs ignore my two barn cats (the troopers that have survived the neighbors’ pack of heathens), but let a strange cat cross the property and they will chase it. I’ve never seen them kill one, but I don’t doubt that they would. My big old doberman mix kills possums. I’ve watched him. He’s a lazy old sweetie pie, until he sees a possum. Then he’s a savage. It’s kind of scary.
My neighbors’ dogs live with cats too, by the way. They never bother them.
Dogs are dogs.
How is the dog supposed to know that the squirrel- sized (or groundhog-sized) animal they killed, in their own yard, is in fact someone’s beloved pet? Unless it was socialized to cats, which those of us who don’t have cats don’t often do.
Many dogs are very prey-specific, they only kill prey of certain species. Most sighthounds do not kill people, including babies and toddlers, I think because they have been rigorously selected against the tendency to kill humans.
But dogs have not generally been selected for the tendency not to kill cats, if they have been selected to kill other similar prey of about the same size.
My dogs have not yet killed a cat, but that is because they haven’t encountered one in their fenced yard. We once had five indoor cats with multiple wolfhounds and they were great friends. But I have no doubt they would have killed a stray cat in their yard.
I guess if you can’t accept this, you must keep Pekinese, or some dogs who are devoid of prey drive, or who cannot effectively act upon it.
But this is a part of who are dogs are…at least some of our dogs.
I agree the neighbor was negligent in letting their cat access the dogs’ yard. The dogs were just being dogs, unfortunately for the poor cat.
[QUOTE=JoZ;8070396]
I’m not going to be popular here. I wouldn’t keep a cat-killing dog no matter how or where the dog got access to the cat. There are strong reasons to keep a cat indoors – in some areas it might even be the law. In places where it is NOT the law, I think there should be the expectation that my neighbor’s dog will not kill my cat. Because dogs do not, in general, kill cats.
The law is on your side, even for vet bills and such. I personally couldn’t live with myself OR the dog.[/QUOTE]
Oh thank GOD someone else said it!
I am sorry, I would never ever own a dog that killed cats. Nor have I. That kind of pack aggression could be easily turned to a small child. Agree Joz!
[QUOTE=Sannois;8071132]
Oh thank GOD someone else said it!
I am sorry, I would never ever own a dog that killed cats. Nor have I. That kind of pack aggression could be easily turned to a small child. Agree Joz![/QUOTE]
It is totally not true that a dog that killed a cat would necessarily be likely to kill a child.
Many dogs kill small and large animals, but are very inhibited about predatory behavior directed to a human, of whatever age or circumstance.
But, true, many of the dogs who have killed babies or children or humans of any age, do have a history of predation upon animals of other species.
