saje, I love your enclosure and have been thinking about making one for my own cat but I have concerns about one that doesn’t have a top. Do you have to worry about predators getting in?
[QUOTE=cowboymom;8075022]
Dogs have an instinct to do all kinds of things that can be trained out.
I have shepherds and hounds in a yard with cats and chickens for pete’s sake, dogs can learn.
I think some people indulge the whole “prey drive” mystique and have lost practicality when it comes to dogs.[/QUOTE]
I owned Diva for almost 16 yrs. She was an indoor/outdoor cat all that time and I never saw any of the dogs harass her in any way. If I was sitting down and the dogs clustered around me, she would walk among them, rubbing against their chests and legs.
It was so sweet.
However this apparently did not prevent them from killing her while I was gone one day.
I don’t think any of my dogs would kill a cat if they were by themselves. But when you get a pack going and there is no human there to supervise, things can change REALLY fast.
Geeze – PEOPLE can do horrid things when in a ‘pack’. This is how lynchings, beatings, etc. happen. It is a known phenomenon.
Why should we expect dogs or cats to over ride their baser instincts when human beings cannot?
The only thing that might get in would be an owl or hawk, but I don’t think they’d want to for a relatively small enclosure like mine because it wouldn’t give enough wing room to take off again fully loaded (cue shudder at THAT thought!).
The video on the site makes the mesh look nice and taut and stable, but in fact it’s pretty wobbly, at least mine is. It’s plenty sturdy enough to hold the occasional leaping cat body, but it’s not really sturdy enough to really climb. I suppose a truly desperately hungry fox or coyote might be able to do it, but not without several tries and not fast enough to catch a penned cat unaware.
I have had one neighbor cat come for a visit (found him in my house!) but he must have jumped from the porch railing onto the overhang intending to survey the scene below, and the jointed arms would have dumped him unceremoniously into the pen. He hasn’t tried it since 
I also had a couple of squirrels get dropped in the same way. The second one I rescued, the first one I only knew about when I saw it being lugged in, very dead, at the cat door 
There’s also very stiff coated wire in a L shape on the ground on both sides of mine, the inside to keep cats from pushing under the mesh side and the outside to keep my rotten tripod terrier from digging IN. Idiot dog. She’s only got one front leg and still insisted on digging in to their yard. Anything for a cat poop snack I guess… blecch!
I have a treeing walker hound (similar to a fox hound), a beagle, a peke/dutch hound x and a chesapeake bay retriever.
The first 3 are indoor/outdoor dogs and will play non stop with my indoor kitty, wrestling, tackling and chasing each other around the house.
They also sleep snuggled up together (usually my son has 2 dogs and the cat in bed with him every night lol).
I have three former feral barn cats. Two will run if they see a dog, and get chased. The 3rd bounces between running, and swatting them across their faces when they try. The dogs will chase the cats if they run, and ignore them if they wont.
The same dog that sleeps snuggled with my indoor kitty came running up a few years ago with the carcass of a barn cat. I honestly dont’ think she killed her…I think a car got her, but she did come running up with the body tossing it in the air and tackling it.
I don’t blame her if she did, its their natural instincts
now the chessie is my husbands bird dog and she ignores the cats and other furry things, but give her something with feathers flapping and she’s on it…my peacocks have quickly learned to steer clear!
I grew up with a massive GSD that was a cat killer. He took out 3 neighborhood cats. However all 3 of these cats were in our backyard at the time.
My father raised champion Koi as a hobby and the neighborhood kitties thought it was fun to fish and kill them. They wouldn’t eat them, just pull them out and kill them with a few bites and leave them there to rot.
My father finally had enough after complaining to the neighbors, animal control etc and nothing was done.
So he decided that Bear was going to sleep in the backyard for awhile. Well Bear ended up killing three of these marauding cats. My father took the cats back to the neighbors and told them tough cookies about your cat, and here is the dead fish it killed that is worth $400-$1000!
One neighbor called animal control on us and they came out and told us that our dog was “acting like a dog” and that we had zero liability for the death of the cats. They informed our neighbor(s) that if they chose to let their cats free range into our yard that they were taking their chances with the lives of their cats.
Bear got steak and the neighbors learned to keep their cats contained.
Those cats killed around $5000 worth of fish over a one year period of time. I wonder if the owners ever thought “Gee I wouldn’t ever own an expensive Koi killing cat”.
This dog never turned into a child killer either, strange eh? He loved playing with kids and was a total sweetie to other dogs.
Dogs are dogs, they chase and can kill stuff. So please keep your small animals out of our yards and there won’t be any problems right?
[QUOTE=cowboymom;8075022]
Dogs have an instinct to do all kinds of things that can be trained out.
I have shepherds and hounds in a yard with cats and chickens for pete’s sake, dogs can learn.
I think some people indulge the whole “prey drive” mystique and have lost practicality when it comes to dogs.[/QUOTE]
That may be your experience, but I maintain that there are many breeds that really aren’t going to be successful in that type of situation. Dogs go into rescue all of the time because someone thought they could train prey drive out of a breed that isn’t compatible with. I grew up with a farm dog. At that time, Koehler style training was practiced, and it was pretty harsh. That dog ignored cats away from home and killed them at home, and yet even the toughest trainer said, “This type of high drive dog is never going to co exist with cats. Means nothing other than that the dive hasn’t been bred out.” Today in still know dogs like that. We know more about training now, and still deal with prey drive. Of course, I also really don’t want to kill all chase drive in my dogs, but I’ve had one with a little bit too high of prey drive. Perhaps a better trainer than I could have trained it out, but I can tell you that it might be harder than you think.
There ought to be a RULE - that if your post generates this many responses, you have to come back w/ an update…
OP - have you done anything more? Are neighbors decent about the unfortunate event or not?
Saje- I love you.
From what you’ve said it is not completely covered over the top?
We actively kill roaming cats. If the dogs don’t get them- we encourage it- we get the neighbor (gun nut) to shoot them. They are the most incredibly destructive animals- a single cat can wipe out a bird species in one area. They drive away all of the natural predators and disrupt the entire ecosystem. Sorry cat lovers, keep your cat at home. I agree that many dogs can never be taught to not kill cats. Would you try to teach your cat to not kill mice? It never works out.
Okay update- I have apologized and they do realize that the cat should not have been outdoors but that doesn’t make it any better. Right now, it is “let sleeping dogs lie”
[QUOTE=khall;8071875]
I have 4 dogs, all live quite happily with my roaming barn cat, even when he comes into the house sometimes. They all will chase squirrels (will kill and eat them if caught) rabbits etc and will chase feral cats that are not “ours” probably would kill them if they caught them. One thing is though my cat acts differently around my dogs, he is comfortable so does not act like prey and run, usually. The feral cats do, that gets my dogs prey drive up, yet one of them who is a might squirrel hunter helped raise 2 bottle kittens that I fostered. He loved those kittens and would bath them etc, but they were “ours” so he knew the difference.
I have lost a cat to two dogs and it was totally our fault for letting the cat outside (he was not usually out at night, but we were all sick in the family and did not realize it) and two dogs came onto our property and attacked him, he had to be euthanized. I was upset with the dogs, but more upset with ourselves for not making sure he was up at night. We tried to make the cat an inside only cat, he would not follow the program unfortunately, he loved hunting too much.[/QUOTE]
You didnt try too hard, did you.
[QUOTE=wendy;8077277]
We actively kill roaming cats. If the dogs don’t get them- we encourage it- we get the neighbor (gun nut) to shoot them. They are the most incredibly destructive animals- a single cat can wipe out a bird species in one area. They drive away all of the natural predators and disrupt the entire ecosystem. Sorry cat lovers, keep your cat at home. I agree that many dogs can never be taught to not kill cats. Would you try to teach your cat to not kill mice? It never works out.[/QUOTE]
I dont have to do that. What with the coyotes, eagles, and owls, feral cats dont stand a chance around here.
[QUOTE=wendy;8077277]
We actively kill roaming cats. If the dogs don’t get them- we encourage it- we get the neighbor (gun nut) to shoot them. They are the most incredibly destructive animals- a single cat can wipe out a bird species in one area. They drive away all of the natural predators and disrupt the entire ecosystem. Sorry cat lovers, keep your cat at home. I agree that many dogs can never be taught to not kill cats. Would you try to teach your cat to not kill mice? It never works out.[/QUOTE]
That’s funny - I do the same thing to wandering dogs. They’re incredibly destructive - they can wipe out an entire year of calves and disrupt my income.
Sorry, dog lovers, keep your dogs at home.
[QUOTE=wendy;8077277]
Would you try to teach your cat to not kill mice? It never works out.[/QUOTE]
I actually did. I was raising hamsters, mice and birds at that point, so we taught both kittens that they were NOT to be harmed. Quite funny to watch a cat share a water dish with a stray hammie.
[QUOTE=shayaalliard;8078772]
I actually did. I was raising hamsters, mice and birds at that point, so we taught both kittens that they were NOT to be harmed. Quite funny to watch a cat share a water dish with a stray hammie.[/QUOTE]
What - no piccy? Share or it never happened! :winkgrin:
My house, my rules.
Farm Rule #1: Cats walk a straight line anywhere on this 130 acres.
#2: No chasing horses for any reason.
#3: No dog fights for any reason.
No exceptions.
I have 8 dogs, among the count are 3 JRTs, a Doberman and a PitBull. My current cat population is 9.
Wildlifer, I do feel bad about the occasional songbird, and I haven’t seen a squirrel on the ground in 25 years. I trust the 95 acres we have in strict conservation easement loads the karmic balance in our favor.
A question for perhaps another thread-would you make the same excuses/allowance for a horse chasing dog as you do for a cat killer?
OP, while I would not have a cat killer, what happened is in no way your responsibility. Your animals are fenced.
[QUOTE=wendy;8077277]
We actively kill roaming cats. If the dogs don’t get them- we encourage it- we get the neighbor (gun nut) to shoot them. They are the most incredibly destructive animals- a single cat can wipe out a bird species in one area. They drive away all of the natural predators and disrupt the entire ecosystem. Sorry cat lovers, keep your cat at home. I agree that many dogs can never be taught to not kill cats. Would you try to teach your cat to not kill mice? It never works out.[/QUOTE]
What a disgusting statement.
I find it very ironic that the same people who are all… cats are horrible, destructive to wildlife, blah, blah… are the same ones that saying it’s perfectly okay for dogs to go after squirrels, rabbits, etc. So it’s okay if a dog is destructive to wildlife but not a cat?
PS_ put me in the crowd with if my dog ever killed a cat, I’d have them put down. Completely unacceptable.
My dogs are kept fenced, the neighbors can’t be bothered with keeping their dogs home. You know the type, we live in the country so roaming dogs are fine. They go through a lot of dogs. The last one was the daughters dog, a cute tiny Chi. The little guy wondered the neighborhood, constantly just barely missing getting hit. Then one day we found him dead in our yard. We knew he’d been coming to our fence and harassing our dogs with his little dog attitude, we caught him doing it on the trail camera. Apparently he squeezed in and my dogs either took revenge for the teasing, or more than likely played with him too hard. They are not dog aggressive dogs, but they are 68 & 80 pound boys who like to play hard. I felt terrible, but I don’t feel responsible, and I would feel the same if it was a cat. I have a barn cat, he and the dogs go on walks with me, together. The dogs know my cat and get along, but they do chase off feral cats.
[QUOTE=evenstar;8078911]
What - no piccy? Share or it never happened! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
I wish I had one! That was in lean 5.50 an hour college student days, 2-3 years before i bought my first digital camera.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8078940]
PS_ put me in the crowd with if my dog ever killed a cat, I’d have them put down. Completely unacceptable.[/QUOTE]
Wow–there is a crowd saying this? People would really euthanize a family pet that killed an animal intruding on their own property? A non-family cat is the same as a squirrel or a coyote on our property. I have free range chickens and vegetable gardens and I don’t want feral or non contained cats stalking my birds or pooping in my veggie beds. My dogs have every right to chase them off and, if caught, a cat could be injured. Euthanizing a PET for doing their job protecting my property is so far from my comprehension…
Please note that I am not talking about my dogs running wild killing peoples cats in their OWN yards. My dogs are a part of my family just like cats are to their people. I can no more imagine euthanizing a pet family member for this than I can imagine a cat lover euthanizing a cat for killing a robin on their own property. Although I did tell my mother she should euth her 12 year old cat after it bit her hand and sent her to the hospital for 2 days of IV antibiotics. THAT I would euth a cat for.
