Holy Crap!!!! My dogs killed the neighbors' cat..Update # 89

[french_fry]

Oh, this thread is turning my stomach. I feel so bad for the poor cat and the poor OP.

My cat is 100% indoor-only. Do I feel guilty about it? Yes, sometimes; she is obsessed with going outside and it’s very clear that she misses her pre-rescue life.

That being said, I live in an area with aggressive ferals, heavy car traffic, rat poison EVERYWHERE and the nausea-inducing practice of nabbing cats off the street as bait for dog fights. There is just no way to let her go outside and guarantee her safety so the choice is very, very easy for me.

I think in a perfect world all cats would be indoor-only, both for the cat’s safety and so that they cannot prey on wildlife.

That being said, I recognize the usefulness of barn cats (particularly if they’re adopted ferals) and I recognize that some people weigh the risks/benefits and decide it’s worth it to allow their cats outside.

Ultimately, this is a gamble that didn’t pay off for the owner or the cat. I would be very, very bothered if my dog did something like this, but I admittedly stay away from a lot of working breeds and dogs with high prey drive because I want a soft family pet and not something that would ever consider taking down a cat/rabbit/baby.

I think now that you’ve apologized all you can do is try to move on. It certainly wasn’t your fault.

[wendy]

Because dogs do not, in general, kill cats.

actually, dogs do, in general, kill cats. Especially cats that are outside, running. Dogs are predators that are hard-wired to kill running furry things. They don’t know the difference between a rat, a squirrel, a rabbit, and a cat. The only way to keep your dog from killing cats for sure is to keep cats away from the dog.

Exposing very young puppies to cats can sometimes socialize dogs to cats such that they treat cats like other dogs. But even then, very high prey drive dogs will chase and kill a running cat before they quite notice it’s a cat and not a rabbit or squirrel.

If some idiot lets his cat wander around onto other people’s properties, SSS applies to the cat just as much as to wandering dogs or pigs or any other potentially destructive animal. Keep your livestock at home. Cats are incredibly destructive to wildlife and carry quite a few nasty diseases.

They sell all kinds of cat-proof fencing nowadays so you don’t even have a valid excuse for letting your barn cats wander off your own property.

[Larksmom]

This subject makes me so sad. I have one of THOSE sort of dogs. I had a BC with a lot of energy. He and ‘the girl’ played a lot but he played rough and would torment her till she would chase him teeth barred, and he laughed all around the yard. One day, I saw a snake in my back yard. I HATE SNAKES! Since I do not have a barn, I sicced BC on the snake. He fell upon it with relish. I really didn’t think too much about prey drive…[I know, I know, bad owner:no:]
I had recently lost my two old cats and had a couple of sort of newbies. I came home after being gone for maybe half an hour, to find a dead cat. I was horrified. I promised myself, I would keep him chained up, NEVER leave him alone with the cats, etc. Just like in the Yearling, but I was fooling myself, not someone else. On an early spring day, I left the two dogs out, but the BC had slipped his collar and run off again. As he was running wild through the neighborhood, a woman had found him and returned him home. We had discussed this b4 as he was a scofflaw, and I had told her to stick him in the back door. This was before the other incident. I came home to heavy panting, dilated eyes on him, and a dead cat. I took him straight up to the vet and had him pts. I cried for days.

Still had the other dog, and I wanted a companion for her, so I got a big hound. He doesn’t have her prey drive, but if a critter runs, oh yeah. Two dogs are a pack.
There is a yellow tabby that STUPIDLY hangs around. Got into the yard once, and the dogs got it. Toffee was yelping as much as getting at this cat, so I was able to get out there and cat got away.
But it STILL hangs around. Toffee is very different from the BC. She is insanely jealous of the cats, Cats get to get on furniture and bed, AND get to poop in the house.] But the dogs go everywhere in the car so I think it evens out. I NEVER leave the house without locking up the cats, and mostly find it easier to take the dogs with me than leave them here. Toffee shows no interest in my cats. But if they were in the yard and ran…

[wendy]

I like the analogy with the cat. Would you kill your cat because it killed a mouse on the grounds that it might attack your baby next?

it’s ridiculous to even think that cat-killing might somehow morph into child-biting. Most dogs who bite children don’t do it out of prey drive at all. It’s a completely different behavior pattern.
I think anyone who has their dog killed because it killed a cat should never own a dog again and should be very ashamed of themselves for their murderous act. If you own a predator animal, you have to accept that it will act like a predator. If you want to own a Disney-version of a dog, get a stuffed toy.

[jherold]

Wendy, I totally agree! I have a shepherd with a very, very high prey drive. Yes, he’s killed cats. Also, opossums, raccoons, wood chucks, and rabbits. If it runs, he will chase. He’s wicked fast.

I am very careful with him around small children. When my 2yr old nephew came over we could see that the dog was confused as to whether the kid was a human or prey. (The dog got shut in the bedroom since the child will visit once a year at most). Kids often exhibit prey behavior like running a squealing so you do have to be watchful if you have a high prey drive dog, but that does not mean that the dog is human agressive.

[LadyBug]

I have an Aussie/BC rescue mutt with an insanely high prey drive. I don’t have indoor cats, only barn cats that are elusive enough to not want to interact with the dogs. I wouldn’t doubt for a second that she would kill a cat because I have seen her kill groundhogs. Of course that is horrible to encounter, but I can’t blame her for it. She’s a dog, and thankfully the barn cat goes into hiding when the dogs are around. But, at the same time, I would never put a cat at risk by bringing it into my home.

My other dog has also been involved in groundhog killing, but I can’t imagine him ever chasing and killing one on his own. I think he gets sucked into the pack mentality, like others have mentioned. He also ignores the cats at my parent’s house, while my other dog isn’t allowed inside until the cats are contained. People seem to forget that they’re animals and we manage them the best we can. Accidents happen.

[wildlifer]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8072130]
I am amazed at the amount of people who think cats should stay indoors. [/QUOTE]

Ummm, it’s called “responsibility.” Outdoor cats kill over a BILLION migratory songbirds a year. That doesn’t include the unique salamanders, frogs, toads (fly eaters!) & myriad other wildlife that they have a MASSIVE impact on. I love my cats. In my house. They can watch the birds through the windows. I can continue to work in conservation without cancelling out my own efforts b/c Fluffy wants to play bobcat.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

[QUOTE=JoZ;8070396]
I’m not going to be popular here. I wouldn’t keep a cat-killing dog no matter how or where the dog got access to the cat. There are strong reasons to keep a cat indoors – in some areas it might even be the law. In places where it is NOT the law, I think there should be the expectation that my neighbor’s dog will not kill my cat. Because dogs do not, in general, kill cats.

The law is on your side, even for vet bills and such. I personally couldn’t live with myself OR the dog.[/QUOTE]

I’ll join you in being unpopular - I could personally not keep a dog known to kill cats. But I am a cat person. I’ve owned dogs. I own one now - a black lab who apparently has zero predator drive. We used to think he killed the neighbors chickens, before one day I found him in the road, picking up a chicken that had been hit by a car. He brought it to me with an expression that said, “fix it, Mom!” He’s done this since with injured possums and armadillos, and even brought me a baby possum to raise.

Pack mentality can strike at any time. My aunt and uncle had Boston Terriers. They had never shown any inclination towards violence, until one night they came home and found that the younger dogs had ripped the two older ones to shreds. No warning. It isn’t just cats and other small, furry animals that are at risk when pack mentality comes into play.

I couldn’t trust a dog that killed a cat, for any reason. But, that is me.

[Houndhill]

I actually know a Boston Terrier that killed a chicken!

And it doesn’t have to be actual predation that sets them off. I have a friend who took her hound lure coursing (they chase a white plastic bag).

She got home, and in 30 seconds, that hound killed all her barn cats.

[D_BaldStockings]

I have a sighthound. And indoor/outdoor cats.

The hound does beginning straight racing on a plastic bag lure.
And we are working toward obedience titles and rally.

She is not allowed to ‘run’ the cats. My cats, not hers.

With strange cats I would not trust her an inch.

BUT she is a submissive type.

[shayaalliard]

[QUOTE=marianne;8070481]
As for those who would not keep such a dog, what would you do with them?-put them to sleep? rehome so that is someone else’s problem.[/QUOTE]

We put her to sleep two days after her earnest attack on the cat. The cat did pull through, but we felt the risk was too great- in addition to the cat there were small children around who could easily be accidentally hurt trying to break up a fight.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8074670]
I have a sighthound. And indoor/outdoor cats.

The hound does beginning straight racing on a plastic bag lure.
And we are working toward obedience titles and rally.

She is not allowed to ‘run’ the cats. My cats, not hers.

With strange cats I would not trust her an inch.

BUT she is a submissive type.[/QUOTE]

I know many sighthounds who lure course or do straight racing who are great with their cats, indoors and out.

Just thought that was an interesting thing, with the lure coursing apparently causing the hound who tolerated barn cats to kill them.

Usually it seems the other way around - lots of hounds who chase and kill live game will not lure course, they learn some discrimination evidently.

[sophie]

Not your fault, OP. Unfortunate situation all around. I hope you stay in good terms with your neighbors.

Our cat is allowed outside, and although I hate it when she kills a sparrow, I think she’s much happier being allowed outside. She has been attacked by the neighbor’s cat, who chases her up trees in our yard as she never wanders away much. Do I blame my neighbor? No. Cats are cats. They’re outside, there are risks, that’s just the way it is.

My current dog (Std poodle) is a chicken killer according to her breeder. After a bit of getting used to her new environment, she is now fine with my cat, inside or outside. If the cat runs, she’ll give chase, but the cat now knows to stop running, face the dog, hiss and strike, which stops the dog.
I have no doubt, however, that if the dog catches a squirrel, or one of the wild ducks that live down the creek, she’ll kill it. She is a dog. They’re prey. That’s just the way it is.
I just hope no neighbor’s cat will get into our fenced-in backyard…!

[cowboymom]

Dogs have an instinct to do all kinds of things that can be trained out.

I have shepherds and hounds in a yard with cats and chickens for pete’s sake, dogs can learn.

I think some people indulge the whole “prey drive” mystique and have lost practicality when it comes to dogs.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8072130]
I am amazed at the amount of people who think cats should stay indoors. Had they been outdoors more, they would have learned not to become dog fodder.[/QUOTE]

You have obviously never lived anywhere where coyotes sing nightly and traipse through your backyard with regularity.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8075042]
You have obviously never lived anywhere where coyotes sing nightly and traipse through your backyard with regularity.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the hawks that pick them off.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8075042]
You have obviously never lived anywhere where coyotes sing nightly and traipse through your backyard with regularity.[/QUOTE]

no kidding. i’ve watched a cat get picked up by an owl.

once you see (and hear) that happen while you are completely powerless to stop it, you never let your cat out again!

that being said… my cat has become increasingly clever when it comes to trying to bolt outside… it’s HARD to make a cat indoor only when it doesn’t want to be!

[cowboymom]

I can NOT make ours indoor and have the shredded screens to prove it, year after year. This spring so far they have figured out how to scratch into the dryer vent and escape that way. They’re going out, no matter how I want them in.

I have coyotes all around, they wake me up nightly right now. I can’t stop the cats from going out or the coyotes from existing. But I have a guard dog that will fight coyotes and protect cats and he’s doing his job.

My situation is totally unique though in that my cats can be outside with a bodyguard. Most cats I would say don’t let them out unless you’re ready to let them die.

[jherold]

Yes , a very good trainer could train a high drive dog not to kill, but why? You could also train my collie not to herd but why train out what we bred in? It gos totally against their nature. G

[saje]

It is for these exact reasons that I put up a “cat paddock”, as I call it. I live in a very rural area where people generally do not contain their dogs, and if they do they tend to be behind low fences or are tied out. There is also a large feral cat population in the neighboring woods.

I have 9 cats (and two dogs) in a 1500sq ft house - we all needed more room. My cats can go out and watch birds, eat grass, snooze in the sun, chase each other around, and be perfectly safe. They love it, I love it, and I plan on expanding it.

My fence

Access is a cat door through my office window

The view from my desk chair

So yes, it IS possible to keep your cats from roaming into dangerous situation AND keep them happy. Three of mine were strictly-outdoor barn cats before we moved, and they are perfectly content now as house cats with restricted access to the big, wide, and dangerous world.

I know there are plenty of roaming cats who’ve lived long lives and do not die traumatic deaths. This fence is as much for MY well-being as theirs. They are my dear friends and if one disappeared I would be frantic. If I found one mauled or road-killed I would be inconsolable. This fence has been worth every penny.

One more picture, because it makes me smile. We moved that old birdbath post from the old house, because that was his favorite spot to sit and wait for me to come out to do chores. That’s one of my reformed barn cats