Hoof Hardener for Ouchy Feet?

[Scribbler]

See, that’s one of those hoof supplements with negligible amounts of the relevant nutrients. I like Omniety from Mad Barn, in Canada, but there are American VMS that are very similar. Way more copper zinc and biotin than any hoof supplement. Also decent vitamin E but some prefer more. It’s also got all the chromium and magnesium you need.

You can look up Pete Ramey on best practices in barefoot hoof care. Barefoot folks need to think about hoof nutrition because they don’t have shoes to mitigate issues. You might also find the feeding instructions for metabolic horses interesting, not just NSC feed but larger doses of zinc and copper.

None of this is a quick fix, but it might help build more resistance to inflammation over time

I would suggest trying to give vaxx individually rather than one combo dose. And I actually stopped giving my mare the flu rhino combo because she got NQR for a solid week after. She gets tetanus, West Nile, and I think it’s encephalitis as recommended for our region. We have not had any significant respiratiory issues since I stopped the flu/rhino.

[jvanrens]

@Scribbler

Omniety from Mad Barn, in Canada

Mad Barn is available in the US as well.

[Scribbler]

@jvanrens

@Scribbler

Omniety from Mad Barn, in Canada

Mad Barn is available in the US as well.

Ok good to know! It’s an excellent VMS.

[FjordBCRF]

@DiamondJubilee

When I also thought about it, he had his fall rhino/flu last year (and again was not on grass and hadn’t been on grass for months) he was unsound for 3 weeks afterwards ( I thought he pulled a shoulder muscle in turn out and treated it as such.

Do you do flu/rhino intramuscular or intranasally? I ask because my gelding has gotten very high fevers (105) from vaccines since I’ve had him. We started splitting some of them up and the IN flu/rhino doesn’t cause a reaction at all. My vet said he hasn’t seen a horse with a reaction to that one IN in any case. Vaccine wise he had previously gotten Vetera brand. This spring we switched him to Zoetis core with no banamine pre treat, and he was good to go.

I feel your pain with the vaccine related issues

[DiamondJubilee]

@Scribbler

See, that’s one of those hoof supplements with negligible amounts of the relevant nutrients. I like Omniety from Mad Barn, in Canada, but there are American VMS that are very similar. Way more copper zinc and biotin than any hoof supplement. Also decent vitamin E but some prefer more. It’s also got all the chromium and magnesium you need.

Do you mean that the Hoofmaster doesnt have many relevant nutrients? The only reason I feed the Hoofmaster is I have 1 pony with bad feet. Can’t hold a shoe in the summer, and when I pull them for over the winter, his feet chip like crazy. I put him on Hoofmaster and he held shoes and less chipping. Then I switched over to Omneity and Tri Amino and his lost shoes and got crappy feet again. I kept him on it for 6 months in case it was just the change over. Then I gave up and went back to Hoofmaster and his feet are perfect again. It was what I have in the barn so I put my 3 year old (and some of my other ponies) on it as well. Saying that, I did go to the feed store today and picked up some turpentine and did get a container of Omenity for him. I know its not a quick fix though.

I did just give him the Rhino/Flu last fall as he needed it for the Royal Winter Fair (no other shots), all by itself and he showed signs of laminitis. Now this spring I never really thought about it and did Rabies and then a combo shot with Rhino/Flu, WEE, EEE, tetanus and West Nile. Going forward I won’t do that again. I will split shots and unfortunately he has to have Rhino/Flu to show so he has to have that one every spring. But I will try it intranasally next time. I have never done a shot this way before so I hope it works for him. He is good for the rest of the year for shots, so that’s a good thing.

[DiamondJubilee]

@FjordBCRF

Do you do flu/rhino intramuscular or intranasally? I ask because my gelding has gotten very high fevers (105) from vaccines since I’ve had him. We started splitting some of them up and the IN flu/rhino doesn’t cause a reaction at all. My vet said he hasn’t seen a horse with a reaction to that one IN in any case. Vaccine wise he had previously gotten Vetera brand. This spring we switched him to Zoetis core with no banamine pre treat, and he was good to go.

I feel your pain with the vaccine related issues

Now that’s good news to hear!! I will be doing his Rhino/Flu intranasally next spring as per the vet.

[FjordBCRF]

Hopefully that will give you guys some relief!!

[sascha]

@Scribbler

Venice turpentine (a kind of pine tar)

Nitpicking - Venice turpentine is larch resin, not pine tar. They are 2 quite different things.

Venice turpentine: https://www.wala.world/en/nature/the-gold-of-the-larch.html

Pine tar is made from pine wood and involves heating which causes carbonization (or something) lol I’m not great on this stuff, but I do know that Venice turpentine is a light-coloured ‘raw’ product and pine tar involves some crazy kind of cooking that causes black guck to come out of the wood. Also, the two different types of trees as mentioned above.

[Scribbler]

@sascha

@Scribbler

Venice turpentine (a kind of pine tar)

Nitpicking - Venice turpentine is larch resin, not pine tar. They are 2 quite different things.

Venice turpentine: https://www.wala.world/en/nature/the-gold-of-the-larch.html

Pine tar is made from pine wood and involves heating which causes carbonization (or something) lol I’m not great on this stuff, but I do know that Venice turpentine is a light-coloured ‘raw’ product and pine tar involves some crazy kind of cooking that causes black guck to come out of the wood. Also, the two different types of trees as mentioned above.

Ah yes. I knew it was out of a tree not turpentine like you use to clean paint brushes!!

[Scribbler]

@DiamondJubilee

@Scribbler

See, that’s one of those hoof supplements with negligible amounts of the relevant nutrients. I like Omniety from Mad Barn, in Canada, but there are American VMS that are very similar. Way more copper zinc and biotin than any hoof supplement. Also decent vitamin E but some prefer more. It’s also got all the chromium and magnesium you need.

Do you mean that the Hoofmaster doesnt have many relevant nutrients? The only reason I feed the Hoofmaster is I have 1 pony with bad feet. Can’t hold a shoe in the summer, and when I pull them for over the winter, his feet chip like crazy. I put him on Hoofmaster and he held shoes and less chipping. Then I switched over to Omneity and Tri Amino and his lost shoes and got crappy feet again. I kept him on it for 6 months in case it was just the change over. Then I gave up and went back to Hoofmaster and his feet are perfect again. It was what I have in the barn so I put my 3 year old (and some of my other ponies) on it as well. Saying that, I did go to the feed store today and picked up some turpentine and did get a container of Omenity for him. I know its not a quick fix though.

I did just give him the Rhino/Flu last fall as he needed it for the Royal Winter Fair (no other shots), all by itself and he showed signs of laminitis. Now this spring I never really thought about it and did Rabies and then a combo shot with Rhino/Flu, WEE, EEE, tetanus and West Nile. Going forward I won’t do that again. I will split shots and unfortunately he has to have Rhino/Flu to show so he has to have that one every spring. But I will try it intranasally next time. I have never done a shot this way before so I hope it works for him. He is good for the rest of the year for shots, so that’s a good thing.

Well, any nutritional supplement is going to take a year for the hoof to grow down to the ground and show results in the wall. The sole is more shallow and I think grows out and sheds in more like 3 months.

There are so many confounding variables in hoof strength including wetness dryness exercise time of year quality of trim.

That said, I can’t account for hoof master working that fast for you, but am not going to discount it either. I don’t have a logical explanation.

Also increased health and better movement means better hoof wear. Horses pull front shoes from over tracking when they are falling on the forehand which they can do when they are stiff of moving poorly.

The idea of IN flu shots is interesting. I know IN strangles can’t be given the same day as other vaxx because of the extreme danger of cross contamination.

[sascha]

@Scribbler

I knew it was out of a tree not turpentine like you use to clean paint brushes!

Turpentine (not Venice-turpentine) is also made from tree resin but it’s the volatile stuff after the distillation process. I think. My memory may suck and I’m not bothering to look it up. At any rate, it’s the way less viscous, oily, nasty smelling stuff that I can pretty much taste on the roof of my mouth right now just thinking about it. <- my late mother used to paint. I swear the smell of the ‘turps’ scarred me for life

[sascha]

@Scribbler

I know IN strangles can’t be given the same day as other vaxx because of the extreme danger of cross contamination

Ok, ok, I’m going to step away from the keyboard now. I think that is because strangles is a whole 'nother animal altogether and causes a huge risk if contact is made with flesh. So, if the IN strangles is given, then the vet whips out a needle while some of it is still hanging around in the air, that IN strangles vax could accidentally be injected. I’ve been around long enough to know that IM strangles vax can lead to a complete nightmare - think IM injection of Banamine.

My guess is that with regular flu, etc. vaccines that the risk from accidentally injecting a bit of airborne vaccine would be fairly low. Correct me if I’m wrong!

[ASB_Stars]

Vettec makes a product called Sole-Guard that I have used. You need their gun to apply it, so it’s an investment. Depending on your horses feet, your application, and the terrain, it can stay in for a couple of weeks per application.

I would be painting on the Venice Turpentine religiously before I would give up on barefoot. However, the Sole=Guard has been really useful around here in the past.

[rulex]

@DiamondJubilee

I put him on Hoofmaster and he held shoes and less chipping. Then I switched over to Omneity and Tri Amino and his lost shoes and got crappy feet again.

I feed Hoofmaster in addition to Omneity because my horse won’t eat MB Amino Trace+ which is the recommended supplement for hooves due to the cu/zn levels. Omneity doesn’t quite have enough cu/zn, but the Hoofmaster bumps it up and also bumps up the biotin.

My horse also got ouchy feet after vaccinations this year. I didn’t have turnout boots on hand so we bedded in deep shavings for foot comfort as per the vet’s recommendation. I now have a pair of boots similar to Easy Boot Clouds that I have used for turnout and they were fine. I made sure to give a break out of them for at least an hour a day. But if your horse comes into a stall at night then you could bed really deep and remove the boots while they’re in a stall. I found my horse only needed the boots for less than a week before they were no longer needed to be comfortable in turnout.

[DiamondJubilee]

@ASB_Stars

I would be painting on the Venice Turpentine religiously before I would give up on barefoot. However, the Sole=Guard has been really useful around here in the past.

Over the phone my farrier did not want to do shoes at all, especially if his laminae are inflamed right now. He would like to see xrays first. I also prefer barefoot and have most of my ponies this way for more than half of the year (I just shoe my combined driving pony as he needs corks added for wet grass - I’ve had him slip barefoot and taking some tight turns as the carriage can also push them). I did buy the venice turpentine last night and applied it when I brought him in.

@rulex

I feed Hoofmaster in addition to Omneity because my horse won’t eat MB Amino Trace+ which is the recommended supplement for hooves due to the cu/zn levels. Omneity doesn’t quite have enough cu/zn, but the Hoofmaster bumps it up and also bumps up the biotin.

Thats what I’m doing now as well! I’ve kept him on the Hoofmaster and just added the Omneity 2 x a day and will see how that goes. I’ve fed Amino Trace and it was very hard to get it into my non picky ponies as well. So its good to hear that you found the combo of Omneity and Hoofmaster to work well for you.

I’m just working with the vet for 2 sets of front xrays and to pull blood to test for insulin. I hope for her to come out soon so we can see whats going on. He is very comfortable on turnout which makes me feel better. His stall is very deeply bedded and he’s still slow coming out on the concrete in the morning but is getting better for sure. He’s maybe half his normal speed now. Once he’s been out for the day, he marches right into the barn on the concrete like he’s not sore at all. So for him, movement is key for sure.

[Pico_Banana]

I haven’t read all of the responses, but when my mare was recovering from laminitis, she wore boots 24/7. Tufts had her in SoftRides but my therapeutic farrier moved her into Easyboot Stratus boots. His rationale was that they had more options in terms of sole support. I have to say, the Stratus boots fit her better. At one point, I did buy some silver sox to prevent rubs, but I think that’s a good idea with any boots that come up over the hairline.

[rulex]

Yeah my trimmer suggested Hoofmaster to me because it’s not uncommon for horses to picky about AT+. I had also tried adding tiny amounts of cu/zn to the Omneity with no success. The Hoofmaster seems quite palatable and my horse will eat it just plain.

Once you gets everything sorted you could try Hoof Armor for extra protection. It’s some kind of epoxy with Kevlar and strengthens the hoof. I haven’t tried it yet but have asked my trimmer to get some so we can do an application after the next trim. It’s also supposed to be good for preventing thrush.

[Scribbler]

Ok that makes sense as a way to boost another supplement. But do crunch the numbers to see if you are getting anything worthwhile. Also don’t double dose selenium, that’s dangerous

[kaya842]

Unsure if it’s available to you (if you’re in Canada) but you may be able to get bulk copper and zinc for cheaper than the Hoofmaster to supplement the Omneity. In the US, I get mine from California Trace but I believe Uckele offers them as well. As long as you’re giving about 20mg of biotin I wouldn’t worry about giving more biotin.

[DiamondJubilee]

I did some numbers with Hoofmaster and Omneity, but just for selenium, biotin, copper and zinc. Omnetiy has a much larger range of vitamins, but at a lower dose for the ones mentioned below.

Hoofmaster: 20mg Biotin, 75mg copper, 300mg zinc and 3mg of selenium (1 x 30g scoop provided)
Omneity: 10mg Biotin, 60.2mg copper, 250mg zinc and 1.2mg of selenium (2 x 30g scoops provided)

I’m not sure what is recommended for copper/zinc for laminitis or if needs to be higher, so I need to do more research there. He is getting 550mg zinc to 135.2mg of copper so a balance of about the recommended 5:1, but I’m not sure if more is needed for laminitis?
Other than that, he is getting the recommended dose for a horse. Now he is a 14h pony at about 700lb, so on the high side for zinc:copper… The selenium is high so I may back off on the Hoofmaster since with the 2 added, he’s getting a lot of biotin (30mg) anyway. It will reduce the selenium amounts. He doesnt get much grain or any other supplements that contain selenium in them anyway, so not too much added selenium that way, just in those 2 supplements.

I’m also only giving him about 1,000iu of natural vitamin E (500 iu in Omenity and 500iu of the pure powder) and I did read that he should be getting 5,000iu for laminitis. So I will up this tonight.