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Hoof Sore Horse--boots vs shoes

Horse Care
#1

I need a sounding board because I can’t decide what to do. I have a horse that I’m trying to transition to barefoot. He’s actually had his shoes off for a few months but was in a stall and dry lot up until a month ago when he got turned out on a 40+ acre pasture. He’s always had crappy tender hooves for his whole life. And had a bad farrier really mess up his feet last year. He’s with new AMAZING farriers now, and they’ve been working with us for almost a year. Over the last couple weeks I’ve noticed his front feet getting really bad. At first wearing hoof boots while riding was good enough. Now he can’t even trot barefoot on soft dirt.

He has had a couple close calls with laminitis (but has NOT foundered) so that was my first concern. He is on a management program for that though. The farrier was out a couple days ago and said he did not detect any sign of his soreness being laminitis related. He said he was growing good sole and the shape of his hooves is improving although they’re still not very strong and not growing as quickly as he would expect. We talked about supplements and he was pleased that I put him on a biotin supplement recently. Of course that won’t show any results for a while.

I was hoping the trim would help but it didn’t seem to make a difference. He said he would put shoes and pads on if I wanted, but I hate to give up on barefoot so quickly. Especially since he WAS doing so well before. The other option would be to keep hoof boots on him 24/7 for the foreseeable future. I love hoof boots, but he is prone to rubs everywhere so I worry that boots would rub him raw if he was wearing them constantly, even if I would be switching back and forth between a few types.

I don’t want to just “band-aid” the situation, but I’m at a loss for what to do for this poor guy. I can tell he’s just miserable and not himself at all.

#2

You need to know why his feet are deteriorating so quickly and why he is in so much pain. Have you had any xrays done? Has his coffin bone rotated or does he have navicular changes? If you want to post good photos of his hoof here, we can use our collective experienced eye to see if there are any problems with trim or angle.

Also, depending on the state of the grass in the pasture, that could be causing very early stage laminitis. I’ve watched a few folks overfeed their horses and cause laminitis/founder, and from my observations they start going short in front very early, before the owner or even the trimmer sees a problem. What weight is your horse? If he is on the plump side, I would say early laminitis flaring up, and I would start to control his calorie intake. How old is he, and could he have Cushings? You say he is on a management program for laminitis, but I am not sure how going out on a 40 acre pasture in late spring fits into that.

The other thing that can make a horse sore on both fronts is bruising the fronts on harlad ground, or working up abcesses in both from that bruising.

Not being able to trot on soft dirt is not normal. Can he trot on soft dirt in boots?

In this situation, without a diagnosis, boots or shoes are both “band-aids” because you don’t know what is causing the problem and he is getting worse. And neither boots nor shoes will arrest the development of a problem like laminitis or navicular. Horses can get these shod or barefoot or booted.

I think you need more diagnostics because this is not normal and I have never seen a healthy horse unable to move freely on soft arena soil barefoot.

You might want to check out Peter Ramey’s hoof rehab information and FB group.

3 Likes
#3

Having moved from a dry lot to 40 acres of pasture (and I assume grass) and then getting hoof sore, I would not rule out laminitis based on a farriers opinion.

When you say your horse has had “several close calls with laminitis”, what do you mean? How were these close calls diagnosed?

Laminitis is swelling of the laminae, the connective tissue between the bone structures of the hoof and the hoof wall. Swelling breaths down those connections. Enough broken connections will allow the coffin bone to rotate, putting more pressure on the sole and the horse is “foundered”. Without X-rays it is impossible to rule this condition out.

Have you gotten films done lately? Even if this soreness is not related to laminitic changes, a hoof X-ray can show you if there’s any other trouble brewing structurally and guide how your farrier works. And what does a set of films cost, a couple hundred bucks max? You’ll spend that easy throwing darts with shoeing and hoof boots.

#4

Whet kind of management program is he on? If I had some close calls with laminitis I’d have my horse dry-lotted immediately and off of grass completely. And I’d have the vet out for xrays. The farrier may not detect anything but he can’t see inside the hoof and if the coffin bones have rotated at all.

Lots of excellent info above from the other posters which I agree with.

I’ve been through laminitis and it’s hell. My current TB is now dry-lotted and on a low NSC feed program. She also has Cushings which can lead to laminitis if not properly dealt with.

Don’t mess around or else you’re setting you and your horse for a painful, miserable, potentially heartbreaking experience.

1 Like
#5

  1. The horse needs its hooves x-rayed and examined by a vet.

  2. Amazing or not, great farrier’s with healthy hooves are not always great with special needs hooves and from the sounds of things, your horse’s hooves need special care.

  3. Can you post CLEAR pictures of the hooves standing flat on the ground or floor (NOT wet) and also of the souls.

  4. Not all horses can go barefoot. I keep my,horses barefoot when possible but they get shoes if everything else fails.

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#6

So what is the lameness related to then?

Does you farrier have a Xray machine?

He said he was growing good sole and the shape of his hooves is improving although they’re still not very strong and not growing as quickly as he would expect.

Your horse is lame and you are seeing a deterioration in your horse’s hooves while your farrier says your horse hooves are getting better…

This is problematic.

I was hoping the trim would help but it didn’t seem to make a difference. He said he would put shoes and pads on if I wanted, but I hate to give up on barefoot so quickly.

To me, this seem your farrier is just doing whatever you want no matter if it’s for the better of the horse or not.

Your farrier should see the deterioration.

Your farrier should be able to tell you that this horse should have shoes on for X reason or not for Y reason.

He should also advise you to get in touch with your vet first.

« You » are not « giving up »…
The horse might need shoes or not. It has nothing to do with you, your belief or wanting.

Especially since he WAS doing so well before. The other option would be to keep hoof boots on him 24/7 for the foreseeable future. I love hoof boots, but he is prone to rubs everywhere so I worry that boots would rub him raw if he was wearing them constantly, even if I would be switching back and forth between a few types.

Boots aren’t made for 24/7 wear. Point.

I don’t want to just “band-aid” the situation, but I’m at a loss for what to do for this poor guy. I can tell he’s just miserable and not himself at all.

Why isn’t there a vet involved?

3 Likes
#7

This.

Your “close calls with laminitis” horse probably has laminitis. And it’s not possible to prevent that with a good trim when you turn a horse out onto 40 acres of grass. Most horses cannot tolerate unlimited amounts of lush grass, regardless of how awesome their farrier is. But it is concerning that your farrier thinks he can rule it out by looking at the horse’s feet. You can’t see it. You might be able to feel heat in the hooves but that is usually when it is already fairly obvious.

By “deteriorate” what do you mean? The actual walls deteriorating, or the horses ability to go barefoot?

2 Likes
#8

Do you want to ride the horse, or just have him pasture sound? Trying to force a barefoot regimen when the results are coming back negative, despite your best efforts, is not smart. Nor is it kind. Your horse is trying to tell you his feet are sore, and strap on boots are not designed to be a 24/7 option.

If you don’t want to nail on shoes and pads (which is my recommendation as well as your farrier’s) then look into glue-on shoes or boots. It takes more time to prepare the hoof, but if you use the glue-on boots you have the added bonus of protecting the sole as well as the hoof wall in one unit. Scoot boot “Skins” are the only reusable boots I know of that are designed for long term wear, and can be glued/used again and again. Most other glue-ons are one time use only and discarded at the next trim.

I will warn you that glue-ons are not cheap. BTDT. You can do them yourself, but you need the right tools (glue dispensor, etc) and you need to be very exacting in how the hoof is prepared. Not hard, just time consuming. They do work and they stay on throughout the trim cycle. If you have any questions, just PM me and I’ll walk you through what you need to do/know.

Going to agree with the other replies above that the soreness may also be a sign of low grade laminitis. You might want to remove the horse from pasture, dry lot him with soaked hay, and give him some bute for a few days to see if he improves. Results are usually within 2-3 days. A quicker test is to see if he objects to a hammer hitting on the sole and around the bottom of the hoof wall. If so, then chances are it is laminitis. In that case really consider gluing on a boot or shoe.

2 Likes
#9

The biggest mistake I see people making trying to get their horses barefoot, is starting by taking shoes off. That’s not where you start.

You start with getting a healthy foot IN the shoes first, when at all possible. Of course there are some situations where you can do both - take shoes off the crappy foot and still keep him comfortable when the footing and diet, and judicious use of boots, allow that to happen.

What you don’t do (and I don’t mean this to sound harsh, but it might come across that way) is take a horse who has a history of laminitis, doing well/better while barefoot on a dry lot with hay, and throw him out on to 40 acres of pasture.

I don’t know how in the world your farrier has determined that his feet aren’t sore due to laminitis, especially in the face of him also saying “he’s growing good sole”. What does he say the soreness IS related to? :confused:

I agree that we really need good pictures to offer more helpful advice from that perspective.

But from the management perspective, I think it’s a must that you assume his soreness is 100% laminitis, get him off that grass until he’s no longer sore, and then re-think how much grass time he is able to have. Maybe none, maybe all day with a muzzle, maybe less with a muzzle, maybe a few hours a day without a muzzle.

Putting shoes on now is not giving up on barefoot. Way, way too many people get too attached to keeping shoes off, that they aren’t focused (enough) on what it takes to get the horse the most comfortable, the fastest. Often, the fastest way to a comfortable barefoot life IS to work through the issues with shoes on, and then transition at a time of year when the ground is more conducive to allowing the foot to adapt.

Read through this link to see how to take pictures good enough for critiquing feet
Good Hoof Photos - How to take Good Hoof Photos

1 Like
#10

The problem with putting shoes back on while trying to transition to barefoot is that shoes prevent the strengthening of two of the most fundamental components to barefoot comfort: digital cushion and callouses. Neither of those things can improve in metal shoes, not even with world class farriers. At some point, you need to find a way to reduce the protection and stimulate the hoof if you want to make progress.

Temporary discomfort is completely normal when transitioning to barefoot. BUT… in this case, it’s been over a year and the horse is still having soreness problems. This is beyond the transitioning phase.

I’m seeing a couple red flags in the OP, specifically “close calls” with laminitis and a farrier that thinks the discomfort is a hoof wall problem and that biotin will help. I also think going from barefoot to shoes + pads is an extreme overcorrection.

One simple husbandry question that I haven’t seen asked-- is the horse stomping a lot lately? I ask because sometimes horses will do fabulous barefoot in the fall/winter/spring, then the combination of flies + hard ground destroy the progress. That would be an easy fix. If you stop the stomping, the problem may resolve itself, or may resolve with the aid of temporary relief like boots.

Otherwise, I think you probably need to get a second set of eyes on the horse (vet and/or another farrier).

2 Likes
#11

@Rusty15 In reading your OP I clearly see a horse who is not a barefoot candidate to begin with. I have had a few who just could not do it and be happy and comfortable. I knew that from the beginning so I never even tried.

Your horse is hurting, your horse is unhappy and he should be back in shoes asap for his own well-being.

1 Like
#12

With all due respect @candyappy , I don’t think you can say that from afar. It’s certainly possible, but there are so many factors that contribute to barefoot “failing,” most of which can be corrected.

Diet. Lifestyle. Environment. Management. Conformation/physical issues. Quality of farrier work. Human commitment.

I owned a “this horse will never be able to go barefoot” horse. The horse’s feet were so bad he had to live with his farrier so he could be managed. People thought I lost my mind when in an exasperated last ditch effort I said, “pull his shoes.” But by that point, I knew I had ticked all the boxes and if we were ever going to be successful, that was the time to try. And it worked. The horse went barefoot for the last 8 or 9 years of his life, with him being ridden at least half those years. Had I tried earlier in his life, I don’t think we would have been successful because his diet, management, and previous farriers would have hindered us.

The funniest moment was probably about 5 or 6 years after I pulled his shoes. I had moved and brought my two horses to a new barn; both were barefoot. I was using the barn’s farrier for the first time and because of being new at my job, I couldn’t get off work to meet him. The farrier left me a voicemail after the appointment that he wanted to talk about one of my horse’s hooves. I thought, “oh boy, here it comes, he’s going to try to get me to put shoes back on the old gelding.” I was flabbergasted when I called him back and he goes, “the gelding has really good feet, but I want to talk about the mare…” That was probably the first and only time I ever heard anyone say that gelding had good feet. :lol:

2 Likes
#13

@Texarkana With all due respect right back at you it has been months and the horse is still sore. If nothing else being on pasture is usually the most comfortable for the transition, but by op’s admission he is hurting and they gave plenty of info.

If he were mine I would say enough is enough already. Sometimes there is nothing you can do to change the genetic flaw of bad feet.

#14

I put this in another post. I’m repeating here. The first two lines should be tatooed on the inside of the eyelids of every horse owner so that every time they close their eyes they see it. Maybe, then, it would sink in.

The Golden Rule of Equine Husbandry is that You Give The Horse What It Needs, When It Needs It, And In Appropriate Quantity And Quality.

Note that it’s the needs of the HORSE that govern, not the needs driven by external philosophies selected by the owner.

And how do we know what the horse needs? They tell us. We just have to be attentive enough to listen. No words are spoken, no written communications made, no majical mind connections made, or any of the like. They tell us by their performance in the tasks we set for them. If after a year of following various philosophies aimed at accomplishing some goal and you’ve not accomplished that goal and your horse is in pain during this time then go look in a mirror and tell the person you see that they have screwed up. Give them a “dope slap” and then go do something else.

Ego has no place in equine husbandry.

So if the OP’s horse needs shoes to stay serviceably sound and they don’t provide them then they are engaging in some form of neglect and maybe even abuse. That 10,000 other horse owners say that have been able to maintain serviceable soundness in their horses without shoes is completely irrelevant to the problem facing a person whose horse DOES need shoes to accomplish the same goal. You ride, and manage, the horse in front of you, not the horse in somebody else’s book, video, or social media post.

So, now the OP has to go look in that mirror and decide what they see.

That is all.

G.

2 Likes
#15

My point is not to argue whether or not some horses need shoes.

My point is that you cannot say a horse definitely needs or doesn’t need shoes from afar (ie a brief written description online) because there are so many things that affect the outcome.

3 Likes
#16

And my point is that if the horse is having a mild laminitis episode that needs to be fixed before they make a decision on shoes or boots or barefoot.

1 Like
#17

Some horses are most comfortable in shoes. They get sore without them. One has to do what makes the horse most comfortable.

#18

I agree. There is a lot going on in this post. It could be (and is likely to be) multiple issues, not necessarily shoes v. barefoot.

I’d start by taking the horse off pasture. It sounds like no matter what, that didn’t help.

OP can you post pictures?

What is the horse’s body condition score?

1 Like
#19

Who is arguing? Opinions were asked for and going off the information given by the OP people have shared their feelings based on their own experiences with horses being barefoot-vs- shoes.

#20

Was the horse sound until a couple of weeks ago? If so, then this doesn’t sound like a boots v shoes issue- it sounds like laminitis. I agree with others that I would get the horse off the pasture immediately. Anything that warrants being called a “close call” was actually laminitis that you were fortunate enough to catch early and to hopefully resolve fairly quickly. That’s really just semantics though and the bottom line is that your horse seems to be prone to laminitis. This may or may not be diet related, but no matter what the cause you need to address this immediately. A horse with unhealthy feet is much less able to cope with high amounts of sugars/starch.

Regardless of what your farrier says, this sounds like another episode and you are taking a huge risk by not getting the horse off the pasture. If it is not laminitis then no harm done by removing the horse, just a little inconvenience while you find out what is going on.

What does your farrier say is happening, if it is not laminitis? A horse in transition might go backwards a bit if the ground becomes very hard, but not on soft ground - not without a good reason.

Can you post hoof pics?

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