Hoof - the long and the short of it

[RemarkableOwl21]

I’m struggling to understand two conflicting opinions I am getting on my barefoot horse who has thin soles, diagnosed by xray last year. He occasionally gets footsore in unusually wet conditions.

Another boarder who is knowledgeable about barefoot hoof care tells me I need to ask my farrier to trim toe back more to encourage sole growth. This seems in line with what I have read on the subject and I can visually see that there is room to trim the toe back more.

On the other hand, my trainer commented that my horse’s hooves are trimmed way too short. He is a big bodied 16 h horse and trainer says his hooves are too short for his body.

I’m confused about these two opinions, which seem contradictory. Can a horse have a too-long toe but not enough hoof height? If so, how is this solved? Perhaps I’m not understanding how the hoof grows out. Additional info-- My horse does not have underrun heels, the farrier does not remove sole, he trims every 5 weeks. Horse tends to get hoof flares and chips towards end of trimming cycle. He’s on a hoof supplement.

TIA

[Scribbler]

@RemarkableOwl21

I’m struggling to understand two conflicting opinions I am getting on my barefoot horse who has thin soles, diagnosed by xray last year. He occasionally gets footsore in unusually wet conditions.

Another boarder who is knowledgeable about barefoot hoof care tells me I need to ask my farrier to trim toe back more to encourage sole growth. This seems in line with what I have read on the subject and I can visually see that there is room to trim the toe back more.

On the other hand, my trainer commented that my horse’s hooves are trimmed way too short. He is a big bodied 16 h horse and trainer says his hooves are too short for his body.

I’m confused about these two opinions, which seem contradictory. Can a horse have a too-long toe but not enough hoof height? If so, how is this solved? Perhaps I’m not understanding how the hoof grows out. Additional info-- My horse does not have underrun heels, the farrier does not remove sole, he trims every 5 weeks. Horse tends to get hoof flares and chips towards end of trimming cycle. He’s on a hoof supplement.

TIA

I feel like we need photos.

[Snowdenfarm]

There is a difference between taking the toe back from the top and taking the height down from the bottom. Almost all horses have toes that are too long, so a horse with correct toe length will be seen as shockingly short to most horse people. I trim my own horses and take the toe back a tiny bit once a week and even out any imbalances so they are always the correct length and in balance. People nearly have heart attacks over how “short” they are. I take X-rays to confirm they are the correct length, but boy people are really used to long toes.

[RedHorses]

I too suspect your trainer’s eye has adapted to seeing too many horses with overly long hooves, and a normal hoof looks too short to them.

I found that after I had spent a winter studying barefoot trimming, I was absolutely horrified at the excessively long feet I was seeing at the horse shows.

If you see something long enough for it to be the norm, anything else looks wrong.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@RemarkableOwl21

He is a big bodied 16 h horse and trainer says his hooves are too short for his body.

What breed is he?

I agree with Scribbler, we need pics.

[RemarkableOwl21]

Ill try to get some today

[RemarkableOwl21]

WBxTB

I’ll try to get some pics today

[NancyM]

Wet conditions or even just high humidity conditions may soften the horn enough that even if correctly trimmed, your horse may not be sound enough to ride barefoot. Some horses with genetic selection that have included horse shoes for many generations do not have hooves that are functional for riding without shoes, especially in poor environmental conditions. More likely to have success with this in dry environmental situation, with low humidity. Good luck.

[anonevent]

Both of those things can be true at the same time. Glue ons or hoof boots might be necessary when he has to be kept in wet conditions.

[Pehsness]

If you google this you will find yourself days of reading material and on the 5th day it will start to make sense

Essentially, a long toe stretches and thins the sole (think about stretching any elastic material - it thins the more it stretches)

Keeping the toe back (not short) encourages more connected sole tubule growth, creating a stronger, not stretched sole (think of a knitted scarf with tight stitches vs big loose stitches).

It also encourages correct tubule growth of the capsule for a healthier foot overall.

It is not an immediate fox however, so mitigation needs to happen in the meantime.

[JB]

@RemarkableOwl21

Another boarder who is knowledgeable about barefoot hoof care tells me I need to ask my farrier to trim toe back more to encourage sole growth. This seems in line with what I have read on the subject and I can visually see that there is room to trim the toe back more.

This is definitely why we need pics of the feet, and the xrays as well. Yes, long toes will pull the whole foot forward, which stretches and thins the sole. But there are also genetically thin soles

@RemarkableOwl21

my trainer commented that my horse’s hooves are trimmed way too short. He is a big bodied 16 h horse and trainer says his hooves are too short for his body.

another “definitely need to see pics”, especially the actual foot (as opposed to just xrays). Some horses naturally have a vertically shorter foot. People used to seeing feet in shoes, even well-trimmed, think a properly trimmed bare foot is “too short”. And for SURE, if you’re used to seeing long feet, a properly trimmed foot, shod or not, looks inappropriately short

@RemarkableOwl21

Can a horse have a too-long toe but not enough hoof height?

Absolutely. Hoof wall grows forward as it grows down. Wayyyyyyy too many farriers lose sight of, or never learned, the landmarks of the bottom of the foot, including the TRUE apex of the frog which is where the frog actually joins the sole, not where the tip of the frog is. So, they just trim to the tip of the frog as a landmark, they never check sole height at the seat of corn or toe quarters, which means vertical toe length keeps creeping forward, and heels keep creeping forward, all the while the wall height is being trimmed to just above the existing sole

@RemarkableOwl21

My horse does not have underrun heels,

picture How are you determining they aren’t underrun?

@RemarkableOwl21

the farrier does not remove sole,

If he never, ever removes any sole, then see above

@RemarkableOwl21

Horse tends to get hoof flares and chips towards end of trimming cycle

5 weeks isn’t terribly long, so the fact that he’s getting flares and cracks on a regular basis, suggest the trim isn’t good, including most likely bars not being properly trimmed (a major cause of heel quarter flares)

[Pehsness]

I trim my own (was a professional in a former life) and I never touch sole. Literally never. And 5 years later we have thin soles, still. The genetics really can’t be denied, unfortunately.

[RemarkableOwl21]

I’d like to avoid shoeing him if possible because he lives out 24/7 and when I did try shoeing him he was constantly losing shoes. I do ride him in hoof boots to provide extra comfort. He usually is sound even without boots except for a few times per year when wet conditions persist.

[Kyrabee]

Yes. So many people are used to seeing distortion and think that is correct. I had the same shade thrown at me. Your horse’s hooves are too short. Sorry…no they are functional. My girl has thin-ish soles. I do use boots in the drier months (high desert here) to provide sole protection and over wearing but otherwise she does fine.

[JB]

@Kyrabee

I had the same shade thrown at me. Your horse’s hooves are too short. Sorry…no they are functional.

Anyone who thinks those feet are too short, clearly need very basic education on how to evaluate feet. It’s not their fault, they only know what they’ve seen and been told, but also, it sort of IS their fault for not taking it on themselves to do some basic self-education, which is so very easy to find these days

@RemarkableOwl21 this link shows how to take a good enough photo for what we’re asking
Good Hoof Photos - How to take Good Hoof Photos

1 side view, 1 solar view

[fivestrideline]

Wanna see some long feet that I was told looked “great”?

I’ve also had a horse with thin soles that still had long toes - both can be true at the same time, and he had a very “short” hoof visually. They were run forward!

[Pehsness]

These pictures make me cringe only because of the mountain climbing it will take to correct them if that’s the path chosen. And how sore the horse will probably be.

I’m so over compromised feet I can’t even explain it, lol. They suck the life out of me anymore.

[fivestrideline]

Trust me - it has been a JOURNEY. I got lucky, he’s very happy barefoot. Not the case for the one I got off the track last year

Definitely post pics @RemarkableOwl21 if you’d like real answers on who is “more” right - lots of great knowledge here and I’ve learned so much just creeping on other people’s threads

[barnesthenoble]

I’ve had a fair number of sporthorse folks gasp in horror at how “short and nubby!” my TB’s (properly trimmed per radiography and his own feedback) feet are. A LOT of folks just don’t have a clue how a foot should look.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I remember back in the 1960s looking at photos of show ASBs, TWH and several pony breeds (especially harness shows Shetland ponies) where the hooves were LOOOOONG.

The Arabian show association had to limit the length of the hooves since the owners &/or trainers were growing the hooves longer to get HIGHER ACTION.

Could it be that many WBs are encouraged to grow longer hooves so that their gaits look more “expressive”? Could that be why lots of people think that a properly trimmed hoof is too short for a horse?