Hoof woes

[blob99]

I moved my horses to a new barn middle of April. Previously they spent 12 hours inside, 12 hours in grass pasture and were ridden pretty much only in the arena. In the new barn they are out 24/7 unless weather is especially bad (this includes when it’s very hot coming inside in the afternoon) and there is a lot of space to ride outside the arena so they are spending a lot more time on trails, in fields, and on hills. There are is also gravel and concrete that must be crossed to get to various out of the arena riding spaces. Their pasture is also less grassy than before (this is a deliberate choice to limit grass but it means footing is muddier and rockier).

Both my horses are currently barefoot. Since being at the new barn, my horses’ feet are struggling a bit more.

The gelding is very sound even on gravel and concrete, unless we’re passing big gravel pieces, but he is having chipping and breaking around the edges. Previously he never had chips, flares, cracks, etc. But now there is definitely chipping at the bottom.

My mare was barefoot for 8 years, then spent one year in shoes, the shoes were pulled in march, so she is still in ‘transition’ back to barefoot is also having a good bit of chipping and breaking at the bottom. She is sound and comfortable in arena and on the grass, but is clearly uncomfortable when passing over gravel.

So, I guess my question is–is it reasonable to think that both horses might adjust to new conditions and stay barefoot? Or does it seem like the new environment might require shoeing. If there’s reason to think they might adjust, how long should I give them before being able to make a decision? I am not a barefoot or bust person. I will give the horse what they need to do the job I am asking of them. But of course if a horse can be happy and comfortable barefoot then there is no reason to change that.

Both get free choice access to high quality hay. Mare is on performance grain + ration balancer to meet nutritional requirements. Gelding is on beet pulp + vit/mineral supplement. Both get flax.

[ASB_Stars]

There are a bunch of products out there that will strengthen the hoof- specifically for soles, and/or walls. Keratex is useful for helping to shore up wall strength, and they offer several kinds of products. I am old school, and I still like Venice Turpentine for soles. I’ve always had good luck with it, and I have used Durasole, etc. It’s important to try and stay ahead of this, because once the break down too much wall, and get sore on their soles, you are going to be trying to play catch up for awhile.

[trubandloki]

The time of year when the ground is hard and the bugs are annoying it is not strange to have some chipping and cracking.

I am not saying you should not make sure nothing else is going on. I am just saying that because you are having an issue right now does not mean you will have this same issue at other times of the year.

[Lunabear1988]

When I had my horse in a more dry and rocky location, his feet did chip and get sore. We did end up needing shoes but I will say that using fly boots did help as I think the constant stomping of flies wasn’t helping his feet either.

[JB]

Pictures of the feet?

Full time turnout in the environment you describe can make feet softer, or be in wet/dry cycles with overnight dew and then drying out during the day. Softer walls hitting rocks can mean more chipping.

But if the trim is really the problem, then the old environment may have worked ok, but the new environment is forcing longer walls to self-trim. That’s why it would help to see some pictures - camera at ground level, perpendicular to the side of the foot.

[blob99]

I will get pictures when I’m next out.

some added details: I am using keretax hoof hardner on both (I’ve been using it regularly for about a year, so this wasn’t a recent add). Both have fly boots on front feet.

The gelding isn’t showing any signs of soreness, just some chipping at the edges. The mare, the one that is transitioning back to barefoot is the one also showing soreness.

I’m trying to figure out how long I should give them to see if feet adjust or maybe feet don’t adjust.

[Pico_Banana]

Theoretically, they will adjust. That said, there are some that just don’t ever get comfortable on rocky terrain. It’s just a wait-and-see to know which camp you’re in. To help the mare adjust, maybe try putting her in hoof boots for part of the time. That will allow her a longer adjustment period.

[blob99]

@Pico_Banana

It’s just a wait-and-see to know which camp you’re in.

Any thoughts on how long a reasonable wait and see period is?

They get trims every 5 weeks.

Honestly, I think if the mare had never had shoes I think she would be fine, but not sure if she will get back to where she was.

[JB]

If they are sound for the work needed, and the things that make them a little ouchy are uncommon or only in short spurts, then I wouldn’t shoe them just over a little outer wall chipping. It may be they need a stronger wall roll, or 4 week trims instead of 5. Full time grass could be promoting some increased wall growth.

And maybe the 5 weeks is fine for the overall growth, but at 3-4 weeks they just need a fresh roll on the wall, which you could easily learn to do. Some horses “drop” the roll faster than others.

[Kyrabee]

My mare’s feet have always chipped in the summer. She was on dry lot with ground that was always yielding grape sized to walnut sized lava rocks. They looked horrible but it was only cosmetic. My trimmer does not like the big mustang roll so I would do a bit more aggressive roll about a week into the trim. It helped some but if it was dry and rocks are around, they chip. Sometimes a lot .

I moved to a new barn last fall. We have sand with some gravel but her feet are holding up pretty well so far. I do boot to ride as she drags her back feet slightly and the boots help them not wear excessively. She can crunch over the gravel and her feet are not chipping as bad this year. However, my experience is if it is dry and there is angular gravel they will chip…even with a good trim.

Edited to add…I have had my trimmer leave me a couple old rasps and I will do touch-ups in between trims. At least they look better.

[MorganMaresVT]

@JB

But if the trim is really the problem, then the old environment may have worked ok, but the new environment is forcing longer walls to self-trim. That’s why it would help to see some pictures - camera at ground level, perpendicular to the side of the foot.

This was what I was thinking too. The chipping may be a way for the feet to communicate to you that something is off with hoof balance, or maybe as simple as needing more frequent trims. Hard to say without photos.

People have different definitions of “gravel,” but when I think of the kind of gravel that we ride on in my area, it would be unfair for even a horse with very strong, healthy barefoot feet to spend a lot of time on that without any kind of hoof protection. For me hoof boots work very well because my mare has nice healthy barefoot feet, but pounding on gravel with no protection for many miles is going to make most horses uncomfortable, her included. That said, I have a large crushed stone product in my dry lot, and three barefoot horses that live on that 24/7 with no problems.

[sara78]

Why not try something liké hoof Armor? And put them on boots when riding outside?

[Scribbler]

What @JB said. IMHO people get way too concerned about hoof chipping. It’s self trimming. Mustangs on rocky desert have these thick but blunt worn down rounded hooves with sole concavity but no wall above the sole plane. That’s the inspiration for the mustang roll bevel edge that barefoot farriers use. As the sole becomes more concave the horse does not need retained wall to protect the sole.

IME barefoot horses will pick their footing under saddle even if the gravel isn’t actually hurting them. They will move a little different on some surfaces.

If you find your horse is sucking back and not walking or trotting freely on trails compared to the arena, then put hoof boots on. Usually only need front boots. They are an investment up front but much cheaper than shoes over time.

If your horse is not just chipping but breaking off wall above the sole line, that’s a sign your hoof is too long. This is where a rasp or a knife can come in handy to take back that crack or chunk before it rips further. A smallish chunk of missing outer wall is NBD. It will grow out.

IME hooves grow faster when they are getting wear.

For optimum hoof health, you can check out the Pete Ramey website and make sure your copper zinc and biotin are adequate.

[blob99]

I could def try hoof armor! I didn’t know about it until I just looked it up, looks interesting and like something that could help, esp for the mare who is still in transition mode but potentially for both in the summer where we have a lot of wet dry wet dry weather.

Re: hoof boots: I’m not anti-hoof boots but i would probably go with shoes over hoof boots if it turns out they do need something more.

[JB]

@sara78

Why not try something liké hoof Armor? And put them on boots when riding outside?

@blob99

I could def try hoof armor! I didn’t know about it until I just looked it up, looks interesting and like something that could help, esp for the mare who is still in transition mode but potentially for both in the summer where we have a lot of wet dry wet dry weather.

That’s a good product to try, but only after it’s been determined that the trim isn’t what needs tweaking first. Real fixes, before bandaids

@Scribbler

Mustangs on rocky desert have these thick but blunt worn down rounded hooves with sole concavity but no wall above the sole plane. That’s the inspiration for the mustang roll bevel edge that barefoot farriers use

Yes, and I just wanted to add - trimmers shouldn’t automatically be aiming for that degree of “wear” - the more extreme roll, no wall height above sole.

There are a lot of horses who would not be happy at all with a trim that looks like those feet, it’s too aggressive for their environment. Those feet are that worn because of the aggressive environment - dry, hard, tons of movement. That doesn’t work (well) for horses living on softer and/or more wet surfaces.

Not that I think you were going there, but I wanted to add that because some may still read it that way, and think that way, and you just can’t trim the horse living on the coast of NC, like the horse living in Phoenix

@Scribbler

IME barefoot horses will pick their footing under saddle even if the gravel isn’t actually hurting them. They will move a little different on some surfaces.

Yes, excellent point. Sometimes what we see or feel as “lame” is just more proprioception that’s making the horse shift weight a lot sooner and more quickly.

[Scribbler]

@blob99

I could def try hoof armor! I didn’t know about it until I just looked it up, looks interesting and like something that could help, esp for the mare who is still in transition mode but potentially for both in the summer where we have a lot of wet dry wet dry weather.

Re: hoof boots: I’m not anti-hoof boots but i would probably go with shoes over hoof boots if it turns out they do need something more.

Almost all barefoot domestic horses will appreciate “something more” when they are ridden in situations or conditions that they are not exposed to daily. Say a 4 hour ride up gravel logging roads when your usual day is an hour on sand trails. Barefoot domestic horses are also sensitive to changes in the environment they live in. Wet or muddy pasture can soften their feet. My mares feet are often at their best during frosty winters where her paddock freezes. On the other hand, living on a wet clay field also keeps her feet good with all that clay packing.

I am not anti shoe but I can’t see going with shoes rather than boots to just add a little more. For cost convenience and overall hoof health. With shoes the foot always gets long and can only be trimmed by the farrier. With barefoot, you can keep the foot at optimum length by natural wear and filing, and pop on boots only when you need them. My Scoots are easier to put on than polo wraps or even jumper boots

[blob99]

Here are hoof pictures, the black hooves belong to the mare.

ETA: they are in week 3 of a 5 week cycle

[Scribbler]

Those are some serious event lines on the black horse. Is she in active chronic laminitis?

For both palomino and black I’m seeing forward run probably contracted heels but need sole view photos to confirm that.

To me the chipping is minimal but the overall hoof balance on both would be concerning, and the constant event rings on the black horse might warrant radiographs and a total overhaul in diet.

Chipping is not the biggest problem here, not by farm

[blob99]

@Scribbler the mare is not active laminitis. But she got very, very sick earlier this year–lost a lot of weight and had to be on dex for an extended period. She was never actually lamanitic (worked very closely with vet and did xrays), but there were big health changes.

[Kyrabee]

I’m not seeing run forward heels…OK maybe slight but the heels are there and tubule orientation looks OK to me

For me, that would be minor summer chipping. I would just get a rasp and re-roll the edge and tidy them up a bit.

Susan