Horse attacked by dog

[Auventera_Two]

@mp;3828813

No one is buying into “media hysterics.” In your attempts to “educate” us, you just won’t admit that certain kinds of dogs are simply not suitable for some situations. And pits aren’t the only ones. Border collies are wonderful companions – smart, fun, etc etc etc. But way too much energy for most owners’ lifestyles. And a lot them end up in shelters and foster care because their owners didn’t understand that a working breed needs to work or they can get very destructive.

FYI – as heartwarming as the SI story is, it clearly states that not all 47 surviving dogs are living “with a family.” Quite a few are still at the dog sanctuary in Utah, many are in special care situations, and not all will be adoptable.

Twenty-two dogs went to Best Friends … McMillan believes 17 of the dogs will eventually be adopted, and applicants are being screened for the first of those. The other 25 have been spread around the country; the biggest group, 10, went to California with BAD RAP. Fourteen of the 25 have been placed in permanent homes, and the rest are in foster care.

I congratulate the rescuers on what they’ve done. They really have made a positive change in the way people look at pit bulls.

Good grief. They are still living with HUMANS getting human attention, being petted and loved and played with and so forth, even if they have not been adopted out to their permanent homes yet. They are thus far not chewing the arms off the humans who are providing their care. The point was that they’re not tied out to a tree somewhere and getting zapped with a tazer so a guy in chain mail can toss them some food twice a day…That’s the point I was making, though obviously did a bang up job of it.

I am not trying to deny that there are VERY dangerous Pit Bulls out there. Some that should probably be euthanized rather than take a chance on them killing another animal - or a human. But HUMANS made them this way. The breed is not inherently bad. It’s the bad things people do to them that make them what they are. It happens with all the powerful breeds. Some dickless loser wants a dog to protect his sh** and in the process, the dog is abused or neglected and becomes a monster through no fault of his own.

Mine is just a big 100 pound bundle of hugs and kisses bubbling over that is so freakin happy to see people he doesn’t know what to wag first. His whole body wags so hard it looks like parts will start falling off. If you sit on the couch, all 100 pounds will climb into your lap and curl up in a ball. He stuffs his nose under my hair and falls asleep. He’ll snore and wag his tail at the same time. I’ve never seen such a happy dog. He is the sweetest boy. Everyone should be loved by a dog like him. But it took a long time to overcome his fears. And his fears are DEEP. We quit counting the scars all over him because there’s too many. It took nearly 3 months just to be able to CATCH him. Everybody warned me - oh my god I wouldn’t let that thing live in your house - you’ll be sorry. Well maybe someday they’ll be right, but I highly doubt it.

He even meets the jehovas at the door with a goofy smile and a 100 mile an hour tail wag. If you can be that happy to see the jehovas, then you’ve probably not going to turn on your mum and kill her in her sleep! LMAO

[Auventera_Two]

@MistyBlue;3828884

Hitch…some of the square headed breeds have been so bastardized over time that they’re no longer square headed for the right reasons. Take English Bulldogs…awesome stout strong little loyal buggers…which showing has ruined by rewarding the flattest faces and squarest heads and stoutest bodies. Now they have such flat faces and large teeth that the tooth roots invade the sinuses, causing the wheezing and lack of stamina due to lack of adequate oxygen. Not to mention few females can do normal vaginal birth due to the pups’ head sizes. :no:

Many breeds have been bastardized. So have horse breeds. Humans have a great way of screwing up the world don’t they. :no:

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3829245]
Many breeds have been bastardized. So have horse breeds. Humans have a great way of screwing up the world don’t they. :no:[/QUOTE]

That’s just ridiculous. While I’m no fan of the deliberate physical and mental deformations of certain breeds of domesticated animals, the human achievement of domestication far exceeds even the pointless misery created by our more ridiculous breeding choices. We managed to create varieties of wild animals that can live with us in some form of communications and trust, and that’s an amazing thing. And yes, we’ve produced insane animals like cats who can’t breathe properly because their faces are flat, ducks that can’t fly because their wings are too small, and dogs that try to kill each other on sight. I don’t like it either, but that’s hardly a case of humans screwing up the world. It’s humans following our instinct to fiddle with stuff. The same instinct to screw around with animal breeding that gave us domesticated animals is what’s at work in the all the jerks out there breeding mammoth GSDs, fighting pit bulls and those fainting goats. It’s the nasty side of that instinct, but it’s not some hideous deformity.

[JackSprats_Mom]

WOW!!!

Lets clear up a couple things and maybe get back on point for the OP rather then a pro/anti pitbull thread!

If the horses shots are up to date and they should be does it matter about the dogs shots??? Our dog killed a rabid fox in the barn and the vet didn’t seem to worry about it since the dog was up to date.
So again if the horse has a up to date rabbie shot that should protect him.

Nope! No vaccine is 100% and if your dog killed a (truly) rabid fox and your vet wasn’t worried and didn’t report it to public health and they didn’t isolate the dog something went VERY wrong!! (and very illegal).

If your horse is attacked by a dog and you decide to dismount as you feel it is safe (and in some cases it may be) that dog will NOT automatically attack you, nor is it even likely to attack you. Most dogs (99.9%) WILL stop coming at you if you stand your ground and stomp (how do I know this? Been in the business of being charged at for 9 years, NEVER had a dog not stop, and only ever met 2 that thought about not stopping). The 0.1% is a trained attack (Schutzhund) dog which ideally shouldn’t stop until told. Trust me folks, most dogs are not Schutzhund trained.

Dog jaws are not designed that differently but breed will encourage some things over others - IT IS NOT TRUE that pit bully breeds can lock their jaws!

Finally, the arguement on good pit vs bad pit is rediculous. Pits are the flavor of the month (well last 10 years) and with that title goes media coverage, mass attention, mass misinformation and mass stupid owners- all of which leads to some nasty dogs. Swap the breed out for the next flavor and rinse and repeat. So the argument that there are more reported pit bites is probably true, why? cause alot of them are raised by idiots and bite BUT also because media coverage says ‘Run and scream’ and report.

You guys can argue the pit debate for years and never agree quite simply because to a degree both sides are right.

[Auventera_Two]

@vacation1;3829676

That’s just ridiculous. While I’m no fan of the deliberate physical and mental deformations of certain breeds of domesticated animals, the human achievement of domestication far exceeds even the pointless misery created by our more ridiculous breeding choices. We managed to create varieties of wild animals that can live with us in some form of communications and trust, and that’s an amazing thing. And yes, we’ve produced insane animals like cats who can’t breathe properly because their faces are flat, ducks that can’t fly because their wings are too small, and dogs that try to kill each other on sight. I don’t like it either, but that’s hardly a case of humans screwing up the world. It’s humans following our instinct to fiddle with stuff. The same instinct to screw around with animal breeding that gave us domesticated animals is what’s at work in the all the jerks out there breeding mammoth GSDs, fighting pit bulls and those fainting goats. It’s the nasty side of that instinct, but it’s not some hideous deformity.

I was being sarcastic.

[katarine]

When did mundane childishness morph into sarcasm? Or the reverse? Where does self-righteous bullheaded come in to play, or are we just not there yet?

[tnales]

Well, I’m glad I’m not the one whe mentioned Pit Bulls because then I would have been accused of being a “troll” (I gather that’s what you call people who come on your forum and start trouble) again. But now, since there are about 5 pages of postings regarding Pit Bulls, and this is the first time I am mentioning them, hopefully I won’t be dis-believed again. My husband thought the dog was a Pit Bull. I totally disagree with him. The dog was taller than a Pit, head not as wide as a Pit, sort of looked like body type of a Boxer. It had a very short red coat with black mask and very long hound dog ears. Muzzle longer than a Boxer’s but wide like a Boxer. So to me he looked like a Boxer/Hound mix. The strange thing about this encounter was that the dog never barked, growled, showed teeth or gave any indication that it was aggresive until it bit my horse (high on front leg, above elbow getting into large muscle above leg). He just looked like, la-lee-la I’m coming over to say hi to you. I don’t remember him growling or making any sounds as my horse tried to kick him either. I wonder if he was trained to be silent on his approach, or if some breeds are more likely to be silent, sort of sneek up on prey. Anyway, I have come to realize, after 30 years of riding, that I need to be prepared to protect my horse. I hate to admit it, but it never entered my mind before. So now what do I do? Pepper spray could make its way back into my horses eyes (and mine). I’m thinking I need to become Annie Oakly with a pellet gun, or learn to use that hunting whip that was mentioned. Problem with the pellet gun is that a lot of you said that if a dog is in that mind set a little sting with a pellet gun won’t deter him. I don’t know if I can learn to use a whip properly and hit my target. Sure wouldn’t want to hit my horse with it. So what’s a person to do? Now instead of just my horse searching the bushes for grey horse eaters, I’ll be doing it to. I used to laugh and tell him what a goof ball he was when he was at the lead of our trail riding group and was so high headed, looking, looking, looking. Well I guess I found out he was right! Now he is saying “I told you so.”

[Auventera_Two]

tnales - you’re not a troll. I don’t know who called you that but I thought you had a real problem with a dog bite and wanted help. I’m not sure why people thought differently.

But anyway, the chance your horse will be attacked and bitten again is probably slim to none but it will bother you for a long time while its fresh in your mind.

I don’t believe the dog was some trained silent attacker and killer. Dogs just do stupid doggie things because they’re dogs.

What’s a person to do? Just keep on riding and don’t be so scared about it. My horse got attacked and bitten by 3 dogs while grazing in his pasture. I don’t live in fear of what to do should a pack of dogs again decide to attack one of my horses. It’s one of those crappy freak things that happens and will probably never happen again.

The chance you can aim and hit the target with a gun, a whip, or pepper spray while the dog is thrashing around and your horse is spinning and rearing or whatever is also slim to none. In the future I would grab mane and reins, hang on like hell and run. Then I’d make a dedicated effort to track down the owner of the dog and report it to the authorities.

What was I just saying about dog bite statitistics? Most of them are never reported. Another case in point here. A dog attacked, bit, and drew blood on your livestock and you didn’t report it. I’m not criticizing, it’s just a fact. But chances are greater you (or anyone) would have been at the police station in a new york minute if it was full blooded pit bull. But a cute hound/boxer cross and its not reported. Again, not aimed at YOU, I’m just saying in general.

I ride trails a LOT and have never encountered an biting dog. I ride with people who have ridden trails longer than I’ve been alive and have not encountered a biting dog. How many folks on this forum can say their horse was run down and attacked, and bitten by a vicious dog while trail riding? I haven’t seen anybody else talk about one on here. It’s a freak incident that you will probably never face again.

[gothedistance]

Seriously, ntales. If you want to have some protection on the trails, learn to use a hunting whip. It is the “weapon/dog control” of choice by equestrians throughout the centuries because it is designed to be used from atop the back of a horse to control dogs and is effective – either from just the sound, or from being stung by an end that is moving faster than the speed of sound (hence the CRACK when the whip if used). Being hit by a whip HURTS BIG TIME!

In regards to learning it – if you can snap a lunge whip, you can crack a hunt whip. And if you can aim your lunge whip to tap your horse where you want it tapped, you can aim a hunt whip while on a horse. The concept is exactly the same, except the handle of the hunt whip is shorter than that of the lunge whip. It is fitted to be easily carried in the hand while riding, can be released in a second, is “horse friendly” when the horse is used to the noise it makes, and no matter how much your horse may be jumping around, you can aim and use it faster and more accurately than any other type of “weapon”.

If you have a local foxhunt in your area, ask their staff if they will teach you how to use one. They will be happy to let you practice on one of their whips, and you will be amazed at how easy it is to learn to use. (Hint - if you stand on a mounting block or something higher, it will be easier to use the whip because it is meant to be used from a higher place, not from the ground).

You can find some inexpensive hunt whips on the market. Go for the walking whips, unless you droll over the silver and deer horn variety (I have three :D). The lashes can range from a “walking” length (about 3’) to a hunting length (5’). The lash is coiled like a larriet and held in the hand that is holding the whip. Some hunters will let the lash lie across the horse’s withers and dangle on the opposite side of the horse. That way it is faster to just whip the lash into an arc into the air and down onto the back of an errant hound than having to uncoil and shake out the lash before flicking it.

Besides, you will look quite elegant, and certainly a very “mode” equestrian carrying one of these whips. Everyone you meet on the trail will be quite impressed by your classic “appointment” - even if you never use it. Doubt you’d get that type of reception carrying mace, pepper spray, or a gun. Those final three can have very serious legal repercussions that can end you up in court or being fined – or even jailed – if they are used wrong, misused (even accidentally) or even used period.

Get and learn to use a hunt whip, dear. Look fabulous like a classic equestrian, and be protected at the same time.

Hope I’ve redeemed myself in your eyes – now that I realize that your horse was indeed attacked by a dog used for hunting (although not a hound).

[tnales]

Gothedistance,

You certainly have. When someone exlpained why you would question my motives for writing, I understood where you were coming from. I guess we just got off on the wrong foot. I think you have offered the best solution with the fox hunting whip. I live in Fort Lauderdale, but we have property on the Goethe forest. I don’t get to ride there as much as I would like. I’m sort of stuck at the end of the earth here with lots of people, houses, cars, trucks, and I’ll bet not too many fox hunters. Do you know if there are any in my area? Or even if there are some in Ocala (much more likely) I could maybe get a few lessons while there.

[FancyFree]

[QUOTE=tnales;3830470]
Well, I’m glad I’m not the one whe mentioned Pit Bulls because then I would have been accused of being a “troll” (I gather that’s what you call people who come on your forum and start trouble) again. But now, since there are about 5 pages of postings regarding Pit Bulls, and this is the first time I am mentioning them, hopefully I won’t be dis-believed again. My husband thought the dog was a Pit Bull. I totally disagree with him. The dog was taller than a Pit, head not as wide as a Pit, sort of looked like body type of a Boxer. It had a very short red coat with black mask and very long hound dog ears. Muzzle longer than a Boxer’s but wide like a Boxer. So to me he looked like a Boxer/Hound mix. The strange thing about this encounter was that the dog never barked, growled, showed teeth or gave any indication that it was aggresive until it bit my horse (high on front leg, above elbow getting into large muscle above leg). He just looked like, la-lee-la I’m coming over to say hi to you. I don’t remember him growling or making any sounds as my horse tried to kick him either. I wonder if he was trained to be silent on his approach, or if some breeds are more likely to be silent, sort of sneek up on prey. Anyway, I have come to realize, after 30 years of riding, that I need to be prepared to protect my horse. I hate to admit it, but it never entered my mind before. So now what do I do? Pepper spray could make its way back into my horses eyes (and mine). I’m thinking I need to become Annie Oakly with a pellet gun, or learn to use that hunting whip that was mentioned. Problem with the pellet gun is that a lot of you said that if a dog is in that mind set a little sting with a pellet gun won’t deter him. I don’t know if I can learn to use a whip properly and hit my target. Sure wouldn’t want to hit my horse with it. So what’s a person to do? Now instead of just my horse searching the bushes for grey horse eaters, I’ll be doing it to. I used to laugh and tell him what a goof ball he was when he was at the lead of our trail riding group and was so high headed, looking, looking, looking. Well I guess I found out he was right! Now he is saying “I told you so.”[/QUOTE]

Goesthedistance is probably right with the hunting whip advice.

I had a little JRT circling, barking and nipping around my horse. I leaned down with my dressage whip and popped him one, but I almost fell off my horse. :lol:

So if I ever run into problems like you did, I will check out the hunting whip. It sounds very Indiana Jones-ish.

That must have been a very scary experience!

[jeano]

Since (ahem!) I too have witnessed a dog (strongly resembling a pitbull mix) bite a horse during a trail ride, I too will explore the whip option, since the dog in question lives close by where I ride. Might also be able to pop the bossy little JRT from next door who likes to bark at me for walking into my own barn.

[gothedistance]

@tnales;3830664

Gothedistance,

You certainly have. When someone explained why you would question my motives for writing, I understood where you were coming from. I guess we just got off on the wrong foot. I think you have offered the best solution with the fox hunting whip. I live in Fort Lauderdale, but we have property on the Goethe forest. I don’t get to ride there as much as I would like. I’m sort of stuck at the end of the earth here with lots of people, houses, cars, trucks, and I’ll bet not too many fox hunters. Do you know if there are any in my area? Or even if there are some in Ocala (much more likely) I could maybe get a few lessons while there.

Misty Morning Hounds - a drag hunt (they lay and follow a “fox scent trail”, they don’t hunt live game) – includes Ocala in their hunt territory. If you contact them (their website has contact info), ask if there are any staff members close to you, and talk to that person. Foxhunters are really friendly people and I’m sure they would happily give you a lesson in weilding a hunt whip and how to carry it property while riding. They may even be able to tell you where to get an inexpensive one.

Don’t be surprised if they ask if you’d like to come out for a hunt. Foxhunting is a wonderfully social sport offering fabulous riding over natural terrain. The addage of “the more the merrier” certainly applies to this sport. It will also help your horse be more comfortable around canines because hounds are everywhere, and a horse quickly learns that they offer no harm and that it can be quite fun following them.

I think you will really like having a hunt whip handy – they are both elegant and a real deterrant to dogs. Even just dropping the lash down and waving it slightly can stop an approaching dog in it’s tracks. I’ve used that trick often enough (when I was whipping in for a hunt) to quickly discourage local dogs that wanted to harass the hunt’s hounds in passing. Just the visual of a dangling lash is enough to warn a dog not to come closer – and (big plus here) it didn’t occured the wrath of any dog owner, either. Actually, “dropping the lash” is the only thing a person in the hunt field (the group that follows the Master) is allowed to do with their whip to deter a hound from getting too close.

So now you know more than you could have wanted, so I’ll “leave it” (staff term to get a hound to STOP doing what it’s doing and get back to the Master!!) and hope you find a staff member at Misty Morning Hounds that will help you in your endeavor.

(PS. I am so a carriage driver and over the years I have used my long lashed driving whip to “pop” a few stupid dogs intent upon challenging my pair – one sting with that whip is a “one lesson” wonder – those dogs NEVER challenge me again! Of course I will NOT do that if the dog is on their own property and I am the one trespassing. In that case I do what I do with the hunt whip – point the whip at them and let the lash dangle. Works every time to stop a dog dead in it’s tracks).

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3826285]
So Pit Bull puppies are now likened to wild hyennas??? Good grief. And people wonder why this wonderful breed has such a bad rap. :no:

GOOD breeders cull aggressivness. Just like GOOD breeders cull weak hips, disqualifying characteristics, or anything else undesirable. All puppies tumble and play and act tough. But puppies that are latching onto each other with aggression and can’t be pulled apart have a real problem and shouldn’t be propogated.

Pit Bulls are not cheetas or african lions or monsters in dog suits, or satan with teeth. They are medium sized dogs. The teeth are no different than a Labrador, Viszla, Collie, and so forth. My 70 pound Weimaraner has larger and longer teeth than my 100 pound Pit cross. They plug tug with a rope bone, and the Weim ALWAYS wins. She can out-shake him, and out-clench him any day of the week.

The fact is, every dog is an individual.[/QUOTE]

actually they are different there bite is diifferent a dog like a collie or lab has a scissor bite a mastiff type like pit bulls have inter locking teeth like – a pig does which if you shove a stick it would have a crushing effect and not a snap effect of say a collie or lab

[MistyBlue]

I could never use a hunting whip on a problem dog…I have zero coordination with long whips and end up beating the hell out of myself. :no: So an attacking dog would only get a show on some wacko masochist lashing herself and most likely her own horse. Which would probably make the dog not want to attack anymore…it’d probably think, “Nah, why bother?”
Dogs don’t tend to run from “Stop! or I’ll hurt myself!” :lol:

[cloudyandcallie]

Give the horse a booster rabies shot as we do for our dogs when they tangle with a raccoon. While a shot takes up to a month to become fully effective, if the horse has had a rabies shot already, you are just seeking a little insurance, like someone said, no shot is 100% effective.

When a dog does attack, everyone should call both the cops and animal control, and then the dog will be checked for vaccinations, etc. If the dog has attacked before and the other victim has reported it to the cops and animal control, then the animal will be removed from causing more harm.

(This has probably been mentioned but I don’t want to read all the pit/anti-pit posts. Doesn’t matter what the breed, if a dog attacks for no reason, as OP describes here , he needs to be confined or disposed of.)

[JSwan]

I’m so clumsy I walk into walls and door frames.

I have successfully used my hunt whip on a dog that had one of my goats by the throat and on the ground. I was on foot, and used every ounce of strength I had and that dog saw stars for a week. She also had a newfound respect for the fat chick with an arm that stretches to 3 times its length - magikally. :lol: She discovered that LEAVE IT is followed by DROP it is followed by THWACK THWACK THWACK.

The dog is lucky my .22 was in the house and the hunt whip was 20 feet away or she would have gotten to meet Jesus.

I admit it takes a bit of practice. I do this out of sight of people to avoid being the subject of a YouTube video and a nomination for a Darwin Award.

Of course, the horses are whip broke. Unless it’s a cold windy frosty day and they’re feeling their oats not much bothers them.

Also wanted to mention again that after reviewing the game regs I’m thinking that guy was a poacher. You can’t hunt hogs with dogs during small game season - and it’s quail season at that WMA. I’ve never seen a bird dog matching the description of the one that attacked the OP but I guess it’s possible. But bird dogs are bred and trained to have soft mouths. Law enforcement should be involved whether or not that was lawful hunting or not. No one can completely prevent accidents with hunting dogs but that guy - if he was a lawful hunter - needs to work with his dog on recall and obedience.

[QUOTE=MistyBlue;3831281]
I could never use a hunting whip on a problem dog…I have zero coordination with long whips and end up beating the hell out of myself. :no: So an attacking dog would only get a show on some wacko masochist lashing herself and most likely her own horse. Which would probably make the dog not want to attack anymore…it’d probably think, “Nah, why bother?”
Dogs don’t tend to run from “Stop! or I’ll hurt myself!” :lol:[/QUOTE]

[MistyBlue]

I’ve left welts on myself with a longe whip…it would take tons of practice for me to just not hit myself with a long whip, forget hitting what I was aiming for. :winkgrin:
I remember trying to learn to pop a longe whip…you’d hear “slash, OW!” “slash, Sonufabitch!” “slash, Dammit!” “POP! Owww…that’s it, I’m done!”
Thank goodness I rarely ever longe anything…and then it’s by voice command only. I’ve yet to harm myself with my voice.

Although give me time and I’ll probably figure out a way to do that too. :lol:

I find people who can handle bullwhips fascinating…I’ve watched some cool youtube videos of people handling those things. Now those must take tons of practice too!

[Beverley]

I’ll just offer a little additional advice on use of hunt whips when on horseback, for those who want to give it a try. Coordination is really, really important. In the first instance, you don’t want the pop or the backlash to catch your horse on the head, in particular the nose. In the second instance, you don’t want any follow throughs to pass under the horse’s tail, which will prompt horse to clamp tail down, which invariably leads to at least a few crow hops. Ask me how I know all this.

To train a horse to keep tail relaxed, so as to avoid excitement when a whip (or lead rope, when leading another horse) gets under the tail, put horse in round pen, take an 18 inch length of broomstick, place under horse’s tail, and observe the fireworks when horse clamps and then panics. (Make sure to avoid any injury to human please) Since the broomstick piece is rigd, as soon as the horse relaxes the tail, it falls down, end of horse’s problem. Rinse and repeat until horse gets the picture about keeping the tail relaxed.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=JSwan;3831370]
I have successfully used my hunt whip on a dog that had one of my goats by the throat and on the ground. I was on foot, and used every ounce of strength I had and that dog saw stars for a week. She also had a newfound respect for the fat chick with an arm that stretches to 3 times its length - magikally. :lol: She discovered that LEAVE IT is followed by DROP it is followed by THWACK THWACK THWACK.[/QUOTE]

Cool.