Thank you for your response, I have read up on this since reading your post and it would make sense as he’s always itching towards his flank on one side even when unmounted, and some other symptoms of this. I will have him tested. It’s such a difficult call as the swinging round to bite tends to be when asking to go forward from a delicious patch yet there’s the occasional mounting issue too, happened twice I think, though I am considerate when doing so. I’d have thought ulcers perhaps but he’s not girthy, no response atall when you press his stomach etc, I guess I won’t know for sure unless ruled out. Definitely have to find a good trainer in person aswell. Thanks x
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Yes I’m leaning towards letting my lack of leadership slide and having always let him eat too much when riding! My fault no doubt. It means the world to him and I’m a little too soft hearted. Though I’d best rule out pain as much as possible. I’m glad you sorted out your issue, it’s such a struggle to find a trainer here though I’ve always been signed up to online courses it’s not quite the same! Thanks for your help x
Thanks Suzie, great advice, I will be tightening the opposit rein next time, I have always had them fairly loose to reward the fact he stands still to mount/not make him feel trapped etc. In this case Il be following your advice, thank you. I almost wish it was consistent behaviour from him as I might have a clearer picture then x
Thanks, yes Il try there too x
I suspect my rules area bit stricter than yours. One of the Cardinal Rules is that the horse may not attempt or threaten a human EVER under normal circumstances. I can “hear his voice” just fine with ear pinning, head shaking, etc. I then must evaluate the cause of such behavior. If the horse swings its head towards me threateningly, he is corrected with a smack or a poke back with my toe etc. No, I am not punishing him for having pain (if he does) but for inappropriate conduct with a human.
For me, I would certainly explore any physical issues, but I would not allow aggressive actions which might remain even if any physical cause is fixed.
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It sounds like this horse has your number and honestly, you are afraid to be firm with him about unacceptable behavior.
No one likes a horse that bites. It’s natural behavior in the wild, but we are human beings riding and handling horses. I’ve been lucky, but some experienced horsewomen I know have gotten terrible hematomas from horse bites that still occasionally cause them pain. You are not being kind to let it continue and are putting him at risk as well as yourself–no one wants a horse around who bites humans.
He’s a pushy, stout horse that likes to eat. My favorite horse was like that. He was also a cribber. At every barn he was at, he was banned from getting treats on the ground. He never bit me, but he did get one barn owner pretty badly when she was .5 minutes late feeding him the teeny handful of grain he could tolerate.
Nothing of what you’re saying indicates this horse is in pain. He wants to eat rather than be ridden, which is understandable, but you need to find a trainer so he knows when he needs to work and when he can eat on his time, not yours. Truthfully, from the way you have decribed your relationship, I don’t think a natural horseman-type guru would be the way to go.
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This. This right here. Times 1000.
Don’t create a monster, pain or not, because once a response consistently gets a horse what they want (grass, a break, the intimidation of a human) it becomes a valid option in their toolbox. And breaking that habit/removing that tool from the box can be very difficult and not very pretty, even when done by someone with immense patience and tact.
I wouldn’t immediately jump to pain on this one, but trying a PSSM diet wouldn’t hurt. He can use his “voice” all he wants in tail, ears, body language, etc. but biting or kicking at humans is NEVER allowed. No matter what.
I think cobs are remarkable creatures and generally quite amiable - which makes this something that a good trainer can fix, and you OP will learn so much from the experience!
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Thanks, I am pleased you think nothing indicates pain, there’s just been that niggling doubt because it truly is new behaviour and I have riding him for two years. I do notice if I’m softer in my approach to letting him eat, it doesn’t happen so much. I’m only afraid to correct it Incase the chance of pain although I admit I was not sure how to correct it from his back. I have been working on the Warwick Schiller video horses who like to eat grass under saddle (YouTube) and that helps a lot when I am consistent which I need to be more of. I do love him to pieces but need to be more consistently firm, thank you x
Lots of helpful replies, thank you. I missed the point of yes he can use his voice (ears, etc) but never biting. Because he truly is normally a gentle, easy character it has surprised me and I immediately jumped to pain. The pssm diet is a great idea. Will research this now x
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“No, I am not punishing him for having pain but inappropriate conduct with a human” I will remember this. The fact I have not corrected it properly, immediately when it first started will not have helped me no doubt. He will stride along ears forward, most of the ride. I will be correcting it any time he does it now. Hope it can be resolved x
You’ve been such a patient soul and a model of not reacting to some abrasive comments. Everyone here means well and I think you understand that. When something my horse does confounds me, I look to the professionals to help out. That’s probably the best advice. It’s hard to tell from the description how dangerous the behavior is or whether your horse is showing other signs associated with pain. Please consult your vet and a trainer to guide you in translating the meaning of his behavior.
Good on you for being concerned about pain. Many would just whale on their horse and get him to stop without thinking of the cause. You have the appropriate attitude of asking what the horse is trying to tell you. That makes a good horse person. You’re trying to listen. Well done and best of luck sorting it out.
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Thank you for your kind response, it’s truly appreciated. Lifted my spirits 
What upset me a little was, quote “Ok the picture here is a young cob, a pushy breed like many draft horses. Naturally docile temper has allowed you to get on his back a noodle around bitless for 2 years but you absolutely don’t know what you are doing or how to build a good foundation on the ground or on his back”.
He is actually quite a sensitive warmblood x cob, and cobs themselves are all unique and not docile all the time, however I believe he is lovely to handle and ride until this recent situation because everything I’ve done has been with a horses point of view in mind. He’s such a pleasure normally that this is why I’m taken aback. I am not a expert but I will say I know I have made a success of him so far, backing and starting him myself two years ago following Warwick Schillers online library and such like. I have had to go it alone apart from the online help and for that I’m proud.
He doesn’t appear to be showing any other signs of pain, though I may not be seeing it. His ears will soon pop forward again and the ride resumes as normal, he has physio in a few days and a better fitting saddle on the way (although he does it bare back too) I will consult a vet and try to find a good trainer in person. Thank you again xx
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The under saddle stuff - I’d be concerned about some form of pain. Yes, a bunch of things, including ulcers, can show intermittently.
The leaving the pasture thing - that’s behaviour. Your horse is yelling at you when speaking to you in a quiet voice should be sufficient AND your insistence that “sorry, you need to work for a living” should be enough to convince him that there will be no further discussion on the matter.
I learned my mare was a biter the first time I brought her in from her buddies by herself. When we were about 1/2 way to the gate, she chomped my lead line arm. She stopped short of drawing blood or breaking bones but I had some nasty bruises. She got severely (but quickly) reprimanded. Over the next few years, she’d try it about once or twice a year, never connecting because I was ready to mete out the appropriate reprimand (and did) but it took years to get her where she is now. She will walk a bit more slowly than normal and ever so gently brush my forearm with her whiskers, “I know. I’m sorry, but you’re still coming in.” “Oh. Ok. I guess.” “FIX YOUR FACE! < ears pop to attention > Thank you” <insert mint in paymint slot for performing ‘fix your face’ trick> “Ok. Not so bad, I guess. What are we doing today?”
So, that’s a thing that can be corrected as long as you are vigilant and absolutely let the horse know that yelling at you is NEVER to be tolerated.
The under saddle stuff is a concern though. It could be an extension of the “I don’t want to” attitude, but I’d definitely be concerned about discomfort and would want to rule that out before I got ‘heavy handed’ trying to correct as a behaviour thing.
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Thanks for replying, it’s good to know ulcer pain can show up intermittently. I will have the vet out. He has tried to nip lightly, twice when I marched him past the grassy verges he loves to eat and I sent him backwards instantly. Not 2 seconds later. This new behaviour has started five weeks ago along with the new behaviour under saddle. I agree with what you’ve said, it sounds like you have done a great job with yours. Thank you for the advice x
I’d be thinking about ulcers as a possibility. The fact that the biting is a new behavior, and that he’s otherwise good, and that the biting manifests by him trying to nip your legs when you’re mounted make me think ulcer pain that’s only recently started.
Does he object to the girth being tightened? Does he object to you mounting? (either by biting or trying to walk away?) Those might indicate problems with saddle fit, although I know you’ve said that you’ve checked that. Sometimes horses have different ideas about a saddle works for them than the saddle-fitter does!
You do want to nip this behavior in the bud (sorry for the pun!) because it can become an established behavior that might persist even once the pain (or whatever is causing it) has been successfully treated.
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It does sound behavioral to me. But impossible to tell from the internet. Good advice already given so I will just chip in with a recent example of my own. My 7yr old ISH who normally is brave as anything, out on a roadwalk around dusk so lots of shadows. Decided no way are we going down this one street (last one before home). I hate turning around on a “trail” as I think it can lead to confirmation that something ahead is scary and can sometimes lead to a bolt the other direction. Anyway, I let her stand and stare as long as she wanted, thinking she would eventually move on as usual. Nope. And holding her in place there turned into her eventually turning around and biting my boot, which she NEVER does. Which told me how frustrated she was, and how serious she was about NOT going past that one shadowy bush. So ok, we turned around and went home the way we came. My point being, I think sometimes this type of reaction can be a frustration on the horses part, and their way of communicating it. If this occurred often I would see it as a bad behavior and it would be corrected, but a one time “listen to me, I’ve already said no” was ok in my books. I dunno if that helps at all, but kinda reads like he is just frustrated about not being allowed to graze when he should be working, and it’s gone unchecked long enough to become a habit. But looking for pain is always my first thing too.
Thanks for replying, I forgot to mention on here, I did try four 500 mg nexium once a day (perhaps this is not enough?) For a week and it made no difference. Of course proper ulcer treatment via the vet if it’s that would be best. He never reacts to the girth being tightened but maybe that’s because I do a hole or two slowly and walk between each hole a few steps, he never objects to mounting, I taught him early on its a place of rest so he just chills there, apart from twice in five weeks he went to nip while I did so. He does it bareback aswell, I’m thinking ulcers/pssm/bratty about the grass x
I think you did the right thing turning her away. It shows compassion. I like to do the redirecting a spook (sorry Warwick schiller again haha) it’s amazingly effective and has become a habit for mine causing him to relax instead. Yes I think it could have become a instant habit, it’s not often he does it but I can see he’s frustrated, thanks for responding x
Where you abit disheartened with your mare when she did that? It’s definitely starting to dishearten me even though it’s not often x
So all horses bite each other. it’s what they do. They all need to learn that it’s not acceptable to bite humans.
An observant horse person can spot pain or discomfort long before the horse tries to bite, and can do something about the pain. So I have no idea of you’re seeing more subtle symptoms that you are ignoring.
Being stroppy and biting because you are taking him off grass either in hand or under saddle is not pain. It’s just him trying to set the agenda.
You should not ride or handwalk a horse in any gear that does not give you the option to control his movement if the two of you have a difference of opinion. For me that means a rope halter, not a flat leather or nylon halter.
I ride in snaffle, mechanical hackamore or side pull. Mare prefers snaffle. Side pull was fine for actually riding but it turned out in summer I had too little control over mare diving for grass. Once her head was down the sidepull had no traction. And every time she gets into the grass it reinforces her to try again and again.
We have stalls with runouts. I work with my mare loose not tied up. What worked for biting was not just bite and slap. Rather I came down on her like the sky was falling and chased her out into the paddock and glared at her until she looked away. Then I stepped back and let her come in very contrite. I didn’t even need to actually hit her just make her move her feet and lose caste by giving ground. It’s exactly how the mares treat each other in turnout.
I did useful clicker training for girthiness and about 6 months ago did a month of Gastrogard which has made her enjoy being brushed for the first time in her life.
We don’t have pastures but have a lot of places to hand graze in the park. My preference is to go out to a grass patch for an hour, even bring a lawn chair, and just let her have a good peaceful graze. I’m strategic about grazing under saddle. It would very very reasonable to ban grazing under saddle as many people do.
Anyhow, whatever else is going on, biting because he’s leaving grass is not pain, it’s opinion.
It sounds too like you both could benefit from riding with more precision and intention. That’s where a trainer could help.
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