So now I have to talk about one of my favorite horses.
When I was young, most of my experience was at a “rent by the hour” trail riding place. Eventually I got to lead trails in order to ride for free. Of course I got to ride the horses the paying customers didnt want or couldnt handle. One of them was a little black and white pinto with two “watch eyes” named Sad Sack.
He just looked evil! And to back it up, he figured out that if he swung his head at the rider’s foot, they would generally become frightened and let him do what he wanted (if they didnt immediately jump off and demand another horse!)
The first time I rode him he swung his head around and met the toe of my boot! I didnt exactly “kick him in the teeth” as I had been instructed, but he recognized that I wasnt backing down. After that he was a great ride - responsive and forward. I think I only had to push my foot at him once or twice more until we grew to respect each other. I rode him a lot because very few paying customers could meet him with just the right level of firmness.
While it could be discomfort somewhere or saddle fit issues brewing, I think the first course of action ( if he was mine) would be to address the issue when asking him to leave grass. No more grass under saddle.
Many times it can start in one area and when we let the behavior slide it starts to leech over into other areas when we ask the horse to do what we want.
It is surprising that some of the sweetest horses really can become quite defiant / challenging under the right circumstance.
If you get the grass issue fixed and he is still biting at your feet/ legs it may be saddle issues or stomach related.
It does sound like behavioral issues to me, however, before I would make that determination, I would have everything checked. Saddle Fitter, professionally checked teeth, professionally checked, ulcer situation addressed… Possibly with one month of ulcer treatment, even without a scope to see if it makes a difference. everything.
If everything checks out, then you have a behavioral situation that is escalating in a direction you don’t want. I personally have a very thin skin about a horse threatening to bite me and while I don’t advocate “violence“, if Horse tried to bite my leg I would bop them in the nose with my toe. It would pretty much be instinct on my part.
While you are researching and eliminating potential causes of discomfort, start researching really good trainers in your area. It does sound like you’re in in a bit over your head.
I had a Paint mare who would occasionally forget that humans were over her in the hierarchy. One of the ponies had a bad reaction to fly spray and was down. I was checking him for a fever, and the mare came up behind me and took a good chunk out of me. She was very possessive about this particular pony, and she didn’t want me messing with him. I had heard John Lyons talk about making a horse believe it’s about to die, just for a very short time, in reaction to biting, so I did that. That mare never bit me again, no matter what the provocation.
My other pony was a sweetheart on the ground. He was sedated for teeth floating and sheath cleaning, and he sunk his teeth into my wrist. I was so flabbergasted, I didn’t react right away. My vet said matter of factly “Oh, sometimes even a horse with great ground manners will bite or kick when sedated.” Would have been nice to know that up front! My vet thought I knew–he didn’t realize that was the first time I had a horse sedated for anything.
When I was first driving either of the ponies, they could get pretty out of control about going for grass. When I started out driving each one, I kept an overcheck on them. After a while, I was able to take it off without any arguments over grass. My rule was no grazing in harness.
It’s ok we all make mistakes! Everytime he goes to eat grass kiss or jump to get his attention on you. If that doesn’t work grab a dressage whip and make a sound with it. If it’s bad and he doesn’t give a shit get after him with it but don’t cause harm obviously. I think I said that before but I wasn’t sure if I was clear, I have horrible dyslexia so my sentences make no sense smh.
Your sentences make perfect sense don’t worry. I have discalcular (same as dyslexia but with maths) do you think it would be possible with a horse that is particularly greedy like him, (like seriously no matter how much food he has) to teach him a cue of when he can and can’t eat as ideally I’d like him to be able to but when I say. I have been working on this but it’s proving difficult. X
I am not sure but I am sure someone could answer. Depending on how he responds sometimes it can be that your timing is off and he doesn’t know, which I am not sure if you have a trainer or not. If I were you I would watch some old western cowboys on YouTube get the idea and try to apply it in your groundwork. His behavior of trying to bite you, might not be the grass it could be that he is blocking you out and ignoring by choosing to eat grass. In which you allow him to eat grass which gives him the idea that it’s ok, and he sees you as some announces so he gets obviously aggravated. I would get a rope halter if you do or don’t have a round pen shoot him in there and everytime he looks away or starts to lose focus of you get after him. Acknowledge space everytime don’t let him nip or put his face in your space if you’re not ok with it. If he gets busy in your space send him away and make sure his shoulders and butt doesn’t come at you. If he bucks at you fucking run at him and make sounds and chase him around. Make it mean something.
Horses are herd animals they want to feel secure and they want to have a leader it’s hard when we fall into habits like myself everyone is guilty and we get lazy and let horses have a bite of grass and not think of potential habits forming but it should be in our best interest to make sure they acknowledge you and have their attention on you! Anyways I can see if I can find some videos! Or maybe someone has better advice
It starts with leading. You click and the horse walks before you walk. You say halt and the horse halts before you halt. You say back with your thumb not pressing for back. There are always two signals for back. Later the word back and a gentle tug on the tail for backing out of a float, and the word back and waving you finger side to side, which you can do from horseback to back another horse from a gate you want to go through, for example.
When you say halt the horse halts and doesn’t move. If he moves uh uh and put back and good boy from now and forever. He will stand to be groomed, while you disappear into the tack room, to be tacked, to be washed, while you leave to get your phone from the house, while you go and get the manure fork, while lunging, etc, etc, etc.
Eventually that can all be done without a halter.
The release to walk away or to eat is two gentle pats on the neck behind the ear on the left hand side. No other time do you pat, it reverberates around their brain, it is not nice, have someone pat you on the head and see if you like it.
When grazing you flick the lead rope at them and when the head is up good boy. Always remember to praise. Pull their head up from grazing and they will do it now and forever. By the time you have flicked them and praised them 4 times. They should be standing with their head up. Good boy.
Put a halter and lead rope on to feed. Head up. 2 gentle pats and they may eat. The head must be up to receive the 2 pats. Don’t be mean about it. That is classed as teasing. Eventually this can be done without the halter.
If you are doing any thing with him for example rugging him, his head must be up and not grazing. His mind should be on you, I do let them eat a feed while rugging. I also rug without them feeding and they can not graze for the minute that takes. Even if they think they will die from not grazing for a minute or two.
I worked out with him, out riding on the trails and occasionally during rest times while riding in the pasture, that he could put his head down and eat grass when I said “OK Hat Tricks, time to eat”. I would let him graze for a little bit, then I said “ENOUGH”, pull on one rein to get his head up then say WALK reinforced by my leg aid if necessary.
When I rode him in the Jumping Cavesson (bitless) I had to pull the one rein harder than I did while using a bit. I never did a dead pull, it was a definite pull, release, leg aid, repeating with more strength if he did not respond. If he did not respond to the first two pulls then I yanked the rein.
If he started diving his head down to eat without permission he met my rigid ungiving hand and I just used one hand. Using one rein helped prevent him from just bearing down on the bit and pulling me out of the saddle.
This is not something I was told , quite the opposite in fact, so I am interested on the ulcer diagnosis when the vet comes. I haven’t had a horse with ulcers but it is good to know what to look for, just in case.
I didn’t read the whole story, sorry. Have you tried a riding muzzle? I have a bum arm at the moment, and the yank of my mare going for grass is unbearable right now. Got a riding muzzle which she wears haltered or bridled, and she has learned in a flash that she simply cannot eat in it.
Your horse may quickly learn he cannot bite with it on.
It will not address the multiple other 'what if it is this?" problems. It might only address the actual biting.
Hello, I’m not sure where to post a update for everyone to see but I managed to get an experienced saddle fitter out right away who said my saddle is too wide and dropping at the front causing pressure there. It’s early days but between that and his physio appointment I’ve ridden him twice with no issues atall regarding biting. I had it looked at by a different fitter a few months ago who said it was fine at the time. We think the issue started when his saddle became uncomfortable a few weeks ago and because I didn’t reprimand him at the time as I was concerned it was pain, it became a infrequent habit that spilled over into other areas perhaps. The grass grabbing I will be working on but so far no more biting, it’s only been a few days yet so I guess there’s time for the problem to come up again, difficult to tell, thank you to everyone, the training advice will be very helpful xx
Basically if you put the saddle on without anything underneath and stand on something behind, without getting kicked of course, you should be able to see light through the channel.
Also looking at the sweat marks afterwards, they should be uniform. If there is a dry patch, it is because of too much pressure. Do nothing about it and you will end up with white spots which are called saddle sores.
Do nothing about it again and the horse can end up with fistulous withers and that is a road you don’t want to go down, so it is a good thing you have nipped it in the bud.
You can do a trial before scoping or treating for ulcers….20cc of aloe Vera juice, 20cc of Pepto and 20cc milk of magnesia. 4 times a day and make sure you give an hour before you ride.
Try for a few days and see if his attitude improves. It will coat his stomach and give him some relief. If he improves noticeably then you can be pretty sure it’s ulcers and can scope/treat.
Thank you, I tried nexium when he had the biting problem but it didn’t seem to help. I’m in the UK I don’t think we have Pepto here unfortunately?! Thank you for your help
And to back it up, he figured out that if he swung his head at the rider’s foot, they would generally become frightened and let him do what he wanted (if they didnt immediately jump off and demand another horse!)